I saw a saw...

[Mike Wenzloff]

Ok, a corny thread title.:rolleyes:

Here's one that was different and fun to make.

22" in blade length, which is breasted. 6 ppi. A bit of a different tooth for a change. The 6 ppi teeth have a rake that is 30 degrees and fleam is around 45 degrees. Every 5th tooth is a rip-filed raker set about 1/8" lower than the remainder of the cross cut teeth.

This saw is meant to cut up to 6"/8" green Spruce in the field and the shop. Works well.

Handle is Bubinga. 7 1/4" high at the heel. The thumb notch at the top allows a comfortable placement of the second hand over the top for two-handed sawing.

http://wenzloffandsons.com/saws/mw/mw_0005.jpg

http://wenzloffandsons.com/saws/mw/mw_0006.jpg

Take care, Mike

[Jim Becker]

Beautiful work, Mike!

[Alan DuBoff]

Nice saw...but you know folks would never want to buy a larger handsaw like that... :p

[Mike Wenzloff]

I seem to remember someone thinking they wouldn't be wanted, and another, very wise person telling him he was wrong. :rolleyes:

And you should see the beasty one from the Seaton chest being made...26" length. German Beech handle, naturally.

Take care, Mike

[Roger Nixon]

Only 4 saw nuts????

Duckin' & runnin' :)

[Dave Anderson NH]

You must be adding yourself to the count Roger. I only count four.:D

Nice saw Mike. Nothing like a purpose designed tool when you want to work efficiently.

[Roger Nixon]

Hey my job title is Estimator. I don't have to be exact! :D

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

The only reason I am not (currently, anyway) into longer saws is that I remember my awkwardness with them and how hard they were for me to use. Once I got proficient with hand saws, I expect it wouldn't be so much of an issue. So, for now, I'm sticking with shorter backsaws, but that's just me.

I'm sure there's people who like bigger saws.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Thank you all for the kind words.

Yup, Roger. Who woulda thunk it <g>. A lot more force going on cutting green logs with a chance of binding.

Deirdre, feel free to not use 'em then <g>. I don't know what you consider longer saws. The un-backed ones I use most at the bench and at the horse are in the 18" to 20" range. Short enough to feel control, and long enough for efficiency of cutting stroke.

Unless I am doing a long rip or wide cross cut, the smaller saws feel better while working to me.

Take care, Mike

[Bob Noles]

Another great saw from the "MASTER" :cool:

Nice job Mike..... really nice!

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Right now, anything over about 14" are "long" to me. The monsters I used as a teen were well into the mid- to upper-20s in length. I suspect they're just too long for me generally.

Lately, I think I've been understanding why people can gather so many handsaws -- you want one longer than the cut (in an ideal world), but not so long that it's unwieldy.

I suspect my tastes will change, but they haven't yet. :)

[Roger Nixon]

Deidre, I think most of us have had those bad handsaw experiences with the blade whipping and kinking. A good sharp saw eliminates those problems. If you get a chance to try one, I think your apprehension will go away.

Mike, that saw is waay too pretty to use for rough stuff although I'm sure it does it very well!

[Jerry Olexa]

Beautiful results...Nice work!

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Well, it's partly a set issue, I'm sure (in retrospect). Sharpness too, but I don't think that was most of it. The saws (one crosscut, one rip) were just too hard to start. I also think they were too long for me, though 22" (like the saw of this thread) probably wouldn't be.

About Mike's saw, the unusual (and cool) filing pattern is why having sawmakers around is a Good Thing. Plus, it's just pretty. :)

[Tony Zaffuto]

Very nice job! What is your lead time to build one of these or something similar? I'm thinking about some Father Day hints!

[Mike Wenzloff]

Thanks, Bob, Roger, Jerry and Tony!

Take care, Mike

[Alan DuBoff]

I seem to remember someone thinking they wouldn't be wanted, and another, very wise person telling him he was wrong. :rolleyes: I don't know how wise the guy was, but he was probably a real "wise-guy"! :rolleyes:

And you should see the beasty one from the Seaton chest being made...26" length. German Beech handle, naturally.Foul! you gotta post a pic now!

[Philip Duffy]

Hi Mike, Beautiful saw and one I would love to see in a rip blade. When is that one coming out for us to see and buy? Phil

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Philip,

Saws are made to order, though we do make one from time to time that are outside of an order.

We are working on a pair of curly Maple panel saws today, one rip, one CC--as well as a pair of small joinery saws for the same person. I can post a pic of the group when finished.

Ah Alan, but of course. The large tenon is already in the hands of the two people who requested them. 19" long blades! They came out quite well.

Take care, Mike

[Maurice Metzger]

Mike, another beautiful saw. You should set aside some of your saws, one day they will be collector's items and it would be a shame if you didn't profit!

I'm sure you've already posted this many times, but if you have the time could you give some details about the steel you're using? What heat treatment is used? Do you use different steels for different saws? Not that I'm going to start making saws, I just find it interesting.

Thanks,
Maurice

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Maurice--thank you for the kind words.

The steel is 1095 Spring steel such as what you can purchase from McMaster-Carr or MSC. What we buy and what is available pretty much everywhere is already hardened. We use steel hardened in the 50-52 rc range.

We use different thicknesses for different saws. The saw in this thread is made from .042" thick, as is the Seaton panel saw we are making. The Seaton large Tenon I referenced was made from thin .25" as per the original. Most of the large tenon saws we do are made from either .030" or .032" as a basis of comparision. The large Seaton has a usable cutting depth of 4 5/8" at the toe and higher at the back--so the .025" is really quite thin.

So the general "rule" is thinner for smaller saws, thicker for larger ones--though John Kenyon, the maker of the Seaton saws in the late 18th, varied that on the large tenon for some reason.

Take care, Mike

[Alan DuBoff]

Mike,

Had some more time this weekend to play with the small tenon saw you made for me. It does cut a 4" deep cut nicely. I exchanged some mail with a client of yours on the 19" saw with 4 5/8" depth, and it seems many folks like the large size. I tend to favor smaller saws, and even with the 12" tenon saw, I only use about half of it when I'm cutting. Yes, it would probably cut faster if I had a longer blade on it, but I do like the control of having a smaller blade. I 'spose like anything, it's all a matter of getting used to and familiar with the tools one has at hand...

One thing is for certain, that taking a saw with a 4"+ blade depth, and cutting 4" deep cuts into any hardware is great for helping one's handsaw skills for joinery, and helping to track a straight line for 4" is a desirable skill! ;)

[Mike Wenzloff]

Here's the saw in question, courtesy of Chris Schwarz, one of the owners of the two I made:

http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/saws/seaton/seatontenon1.jpg

Here's his blog comments--by the way. I recommend reading Chris' blog as it contains useful information which don't and wouldn't generally make it into a magazine.

The present entry contains info about the Seaton chest--well, a little info.
http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/

Take care, Mike

[Alan DuBoff]

Hey Mike, how can you get any saws made when you're posting to SMC!!! :D

Yeah, that's a nice looking saw also, and Chris seems really happy with it.

19" backsaw is a whopper! :eek: I bet it cuts nicely.

[Mike Wenzloff]

I was working at 6 am...this is called a break <g>.

Got to periodically through the day, though. I got nearly 80 emails overnight. Over half were saw related, others in answer to inquires I made. Such as larger shop space, equipment purchases, more human bodies to fill the larger space...

Take care, Mike

[Alan DuBoff]

Mike,

Just razzin' 'ya...this is where it's payback time for all the time investing in raising those sons, now they get to help in the family biz! ;):cool:

Your saws are really looking nice these days! The saw world is looking up, and there's currently more choices than ever. This is a great revolation for the hand tool folks. Keep up the great work!

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

I'd love to see the curly maple panel saws (see, you're help getting me caught on that saw slope).

[Bart Leetch]

[QUOTE=Mike Wenzloff]Thank you all for the kind words.

Short enough to feel control, and long enough for efficiency of cutting stroke.


They tell me that at the age of 4 I was watching my Mom use a hand saw & said you don't saw to well Mom. They also said she never used a hand saw again when I was around where I could see.
I was used to watching Dad use a hand saw & he had been in the building trades since 16 years of age as well as the Seabees during the war & was 34 years old at this time.

I have always said there is a rhythm to using a hand saw & the workman will have a nice smooth rhythm if their using the saw properly.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Thanks everyone...

Deirdre, the Maple bunch will be posted tomorrow evening or Saturday. Depends on how long I work tonight. As soon as fresh coffee is brewed, I'll be back at it.

Bart--so true about rhythm. As well to your statement about having a nice rhythm if the saw is being used properly, one can listen and feel how the saw works best. Mainly feel, but the sounds are there too.

Take care, Mike

[Alan Turner]

[QUOTE=Mike Wenzloff]Thank you all for the kind words.

Short enough to feel control, and long enough for efficiency of cutting stroke.


They tell me that at the age of 4 I was watching my Mom use a hand saw & said you don't saw to well Mom. They also said she never used a hand saw again when I was around where I could see.
I was used to watching Dad use a hand saw & he had been in the building trades since 16 years of age as well as the Seabees during the war & was 34 years old at this time.

I have always said there is a rhythm to using a hand saw & the workman will have a nice smooth rhythm if their using the saw properly.


Yup! I grew up watching my Dad saw, and it was effortless. I sure wish I had been smart enough to learn from him at a young age, but that may be a rare talent.

[Marc Waldbillig]

Mike,

A question related to this tooth line. As the raker teeth are lower than their neighbors, how do you joint them? By eyeballing or with a jig as it is for two men saws? No idea as I am a newbie at saw filing.

As I already wrote an excellent tool, I envy the future owner :D Hopefully he won't make an empty field of his spruce wood. :D

Have a nice weekend, Marc

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Marc,

The depth of the rakers is just a close approxiamte setting. You can use a straight piece of wood to bridge the neighboring teeth to judge how deep to lower the rakers, which are not touched with a light jointing.

Basically the rakers are over sharpened teeth, filed rip, and will become more vertical over time when sharpening. I'm putting together a sharpening guide for that saw which will be emailed to you prior to the saw's arrival.

Take care, Mike