Selecting a DC

[Jeff Cord]

OK, let me open this can of worms.
I have received a number of responses on my previous question but am now at the point where I am going to select a DC.
First, a couple of points:
1 - I have a garage shop and will only be using one machine at a time (table saw, planer, jointer).
2 - I have no problem moving the DC from machine to machine.
3 - Power is not an issue. I have 110 and will be adding 220.
4 - I plan on running the largest possible duct/hose to the machine.
5 - Space is not a critical issue

So now the real issue.
I understand that I need a certain level of CFM and FPM in order to collect fine dust.
I also now understand the relationship of SP to the equation.

There are a few portable DC's I'm looking at: specifically the
-Delta 50-760
-Jet 1100 or
-Jet 1200.
If I select any of these machines I will use a Wynn cartridge filter to get any fine dust captured by the DC.

I also see the Oneida Gorilla/Super Gorilla.
The key difference between the 2 being the motor and the quality of the cartridge.

So the question is: is the Oneida that much better than the portables that it justifies up to twice the price?

Is the Super Gorilla then that much better (for a small shop with a single machine at a time) than the Gorilla.

I'm not trying create a problem here by asking the question, I just want to be sure I spend my money as wisely as possible.

Jeff

[Aaron Beaver]

I have a single DC that I do move from machine to machine in my basement shop. Maybe I don't have my techniques down yet or something, but it can get tiresome moving it from table saw to router, to bandsaw, back to router to sander, back to table saw. I am considering in the near future of buying a new DC that I can run pipe/hose to all my machines so I don't have to move it all the time. I think I would find closing 'gates' to shut of the flow much more convienent.

[Chris McKimson]

Jeff,

I had a Jet 1100 with cannister that I intended to hook up to each machine while using. Problem is I didn't. As a hobbiest I would tend to make "just a few cuts" and often spend the energy to move stuff around to hook up the DC. Good intentions were easier said than done.

I decided to hook up some PVC piping to the Jet, but before I could get far with that effort I decided to get a Super Gorilla. I now have it hooked up to a system of spiral ducting designed by Oneida (o.k., a few slight modifications by me) and the difference between the Oneida and the Jet is night and day.

It's easy to spend others money, so you'll have to decide whats right for you. I didn't think the effort to duct the Jet 1100 would have been worth it in the end and decided on the Oneida as the last DC I will have to buy. At least that's what I told my wife. :D

Chris

[Joe Mioux]

actually, you will be running two machines at a time.

It can be a real pain moving the collection hose from one machine to another and in the middle of a cut, have the dc hose slide off.

Yes Oneida is head and shoulders above the portables and you don't need the super gorilla, a std two hp gorilla is more than enough.

joe

[Larry Cooke]

Jeff,

Have you looked at the Clearvue yet? I just ordered mine today and after a lot of thinking and reading and thinking and reading :) I finally bit the bullet and decided that I wanted a cyclone. One, they offer the best all around protection from dust and two, they appear to me to be much more effecient at seperating the dust from the filter which besides the obvious fact of less dust back into the shop, it also means a lot easier maintenence/cleanup.

I'm a lazy sort, if I don't have to continually clean filters and the shop floor then it's going to get done. :)

Anyhow, here's a link to Clearvue if you're interested:

http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/index.htm

Larry

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I'll just say that putting a piped cyclone system into my shop was the single best thing I did in there to make the workspace safer and more enjoyable to work in. Period.

[Jeff Horton]

Unless you are a very rare person indeed, I doubt you will move it around each time. "I just need to make this one cut" and so you don't move it this time. Then it's just a couple of cuts.......

I guess it really boils down to something Bill Pentz said. Do you want to collect the chips or do you want to catch the fine dust that can be dangerous?

For me, I want to live to a ripe old age and since I have allergy problems already it was and easy choice. I am not saying you should do what I am going too! But I will be ordering my Clearvue once I get my shop rearrangement done. After all the sawdust I have found hiding in and under things it just confirmed my choice.

Oh yea, another things he said I think is so true. (paraphrasing) The most expensive dust collector you will ever buy is the cheap one. Because by the time you go through two or three upgrades you have spent more than you would have to just have bought a good one to start with.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

.............The most expensive dust collector you will ever buy is the cheap one. Because by the time you go through two or three upgrades you have spent more than you would have to just have bought a good one to start with...........

Now that statement you can take to the bank :D

[tod evans]

jeff, i`ll jump in on the clearvue recomendation for two reasons 1) it`s built in the usa. and 2) it`s an effective unit.
...02 tod

[Mark Pruitt]

Whatever system you go with, nothing eliminates the need for a good dust mask.

[Al Willits]

I'm in the same boat as I will have to go with a portable and move it from tool to tool, my wood shop also doubles as a garage and there isn't enough space to set up a permanent DC system, I was wondering about the effectiveness of the seperators that sit on the top of 30 gallon trash cans, do they really help?

Thinking it might be easier on the rest of the system?

I am also trying to figure how to get most of the tools in a circular pattern and then I can possibly hook several up at the same time and still be able to move all this if needed, a larger DC unit would probably be needed, but may work better in the long run.

Decisions, decisions....:)

Al

[Art Mulder]

I'm in the same boat as I will have to go with a portable and move it from tool to tool, my wood shop also doubles as a garage and there isn't enough space to set up a permanent DC system,

I also have a rather small basement shop (about 11x20). I find it interesting how many people say the same thing as Al ("have to get a portable, as they don't have room for a permanent DC"). I have come to the exact opposite conclusion.

I also have a small shop, and I don't have the room to have a portable DC cluttering up space in the middle of the shop. It'll get in the way of everything!

Instead, I bought myself a 2HP single-bag unit, and a good 1-micron bag for the top. I am in the planning/acquiring stage of putting in 4" PVC pipe along the one wall, so that I can service my major tools. I'm going to shove the DC into the corner as far away as possible from the middle of the shop.

...art
(one of the things I love about SMC is the WIDE variety of people, experiences, and opinions we get here. I think we are far richer for that.)

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Just a point, DC = Dust Collector, OK?

but it is important to point out that they are NOT "Fine" Dust collectors.

As has been demonstrated on various threads here, all of which decended into a mess, nearly all bag type DCs will not get the super fine, harmful dust out of your shop.

If that is fine with you, if you wear a good respirator, and have lots of airflow in your workspace (I'm thinking garage doors and garage widows open, and a large fan blowing the dust away) then the Bag type DC will keep the amount of chips on the floor down a lot.

If you want to remove the most amount of fine dust from your air, you need more than these portable bag type DCs usually give.

Cheers!

[Jim Hinze]

The most expensive dust collector you will ever buy is the cheap one. Because by the time you go through two or three upgrades you have spent more than you would have to just have bought a good one to start with.

Amen!

I have a medium sized basement shop and my DC history has been the following:

1. Large Ridgid Shop Vac
2. Harbor Freight 2hp DC
3. Upgraded Grizz bags (0.3micron) HF DC.
4. Jet 1900DC 3hp, bought used
5. Shaker felt bags for JET DC
6. ClearVue Cyclone using blower from JetDC. + Wynn Filters

Had I purchased a complete clearvue kit from the get go, I figure I'd have saved nearly $500.

Do it right the first time, a Cyclone separator is the way to go weather it be oneida, grizz, or clearvue.

[tod evans]

i just looked at clearvues site and ed is offering his 5hp unit for 9 bills delivered. i really think a fellow who didn`t need more cfm would be hard pressed to find a better deal...02 tod

[Jim Becker]

Dust collection is the most important tool (besides your brain) in the shop. Invest in the best system you can afford, whether it's portable or ducted, even if you have to save an extra month or three to do it.

I'm a believer in the cyclone systems and a happy Oneida customer. That doesn't mean it's the best system for everyone: however, the quality is top-notch, regardless of which model you choose. The alternatives from ClearVue and Grizzly usually garner nice comments, too. If you go with a single stage system you want the largest impeller you can get (the 240v models typically have larger blowers) and the best filtration you can equip it with...and that may very well require you to invest more than just the cost of the DC.

[Al Willits]

"""""""""
I also have a rather small basement shop (about 11x20). I find it interesting how many people say the same thing as Al ("have to get a portable, as they don't have room for a permanent DC"). I have come to the exact opposite conclusion.
""""""""""

I would agree, but the fact is I use my garage for other things than wood, and I need to be able to move stuff around as needed, a full blown piped in system would be nice, but just get in the way, plus I don't have a corner I can stuff this DC unit in, think 30+ years of stuff....:)

I already have a pretty decent exhaust system from both welding and bullet smelting, also I have a resperator that I use when I used to spray paint, so that helps.

I am hoping to buy a decent unit that's on wheels, and will have enough capacity to hook up several tools at once.

Thanks for the idea's btw

Al

[Bill Arnold]

... I'm a believer in the cyclone systems and a happy Oneida customer. That doesn't mean it's the best system for everyone: however, the quality is top-notch, regardless of which model you choose. The alternatives from ClearVue and Grizzly usually garner nice comments, too. ...Jim,

I'm leaning toward an Oneida for my new shop (yeah, yeah I know -- first we gotta get through closing and actually move! :eek: ). I'm planning to have the cyclone and air compressor in a seperate area outside the shop itself. Since we'll be in a semi-rural setting, what's your feeling about venting the exhaust of the cyclone to the open air; i.e., dispense with the filter all together? The chips will fall to the gorund for easy pick-up and the dust would be disbursed in the wind. I've seen this type of setup on a woodworking TV show -- doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, of course.

Regards,

[tod evans]

Jim,

I'm leaning toward an Oneida for my new shop (yeah, yeah I know -- first we gotta get through closing and actually move! :eek: ). I'm planning to have the cyclone and air compressor in a seperate area outside the shop itself. Since we'll be in a semi-rural setting, what's your feeling about venting the exhaust of the cyclone to the open air; i.e., dispense with the filter all together? The chips will fall to the gorund for easy pick-up and the dust would be disbursed in the wind. I've seen this type of setup on a woodworking TV show -- doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, of course.

Regards,

bill, as long as you`re not worried about loosing conditioned air this is the best way to go...02 tod

[Doyle Alley]

Bill, T'ville gets even more hot and humid in the summer than Bradenton does. You'll won't mind loosing shop air in the fall and winter, but come summer, you'll want to keep your air conditioning inside. As a kid, I saw plenty of days over 100 degrees with air so thick you could cut it on a table saw.

[Bill Arnold]

Bill, T'ville gets even more hot and humid in the summer than Bradenton does. You'll won't mind loosing shop air in the fall and winter, but come summer, you'll want to keep your air conditioning inside. As a kid, I saw plenty of days over 100 degrees with air so thick you could cut it on a table saw.Doyle,

I know I'd be trading one thing for another by venting to open air rather than through a filter back in the shop. The way I have the plan drawn now, I have the cyclone outside the shop with pipes for intake and exhaust going back inside to keep it a closed system. I'm just exploring alternatives at this point because I'm basically lazy! :D

Hot summers may be an issue up there, but I'll deal with it -- I've got incentive! ;) Having lived most of my life in Texas, I was accustomed to 'real' heat and find it amusing when people call the Bradenton area 'hot' in summer! :)

Regards,

[Jim Becker]

bill, as long as you`re not worried about loosing conditioned air this is the best way to go...02 tod

Yup. What he said.

[Michael Gabbay]

Jeff - I have a Jet 1100 with limited ducting and a custom oversized top bag. It is ok but leaves a lot of fine dust. It is a 1000% better than having to connect and disconnect and move the unit to each machine.

I am in the process of installing a 3hp Super Dust Gorilla. One thing for sure it is a BEAST!:eek: This weekend I will hopefully have 3 of us lift it into place. It weighs about 200 pounds.

I'd go with the biggest unit you can afford. IMHO, its better to buy once than many times. This should be the last DC I have to buy, even if I get a bigger shop.

Mike

[Jeff Cord]

How does the Grizzly stack up against the Oneida (sticking with the 2HP models).
I found out today that getting the Oneida shipped to Southern CA is almost $200 and think the Grizzly is cheaper shipping.

I've read a number of good posts about the Clearvue, but there's just something about it that I'm not thrilled about.

It may be some personal bias (or just that I'm a new woodworker) but it looks more like a kit that you need to get parts and build rather than a finished product. When I look at the Oneida and the Grizzly they look like finished products. I know this may not be rational but it's just my opinion.

[Robert Malone]

There is an HF ad in the latest American Woodworker magazine listing the 2HP DC unit for $149.99, good until January, 2007. Use the ad and a HF 20% off coupon make this a darn good deal.

[Aaron Beaver]

It may be some personal bias (or just that I'm a new woodworker) but it looks more like a kit that you need to get parts and build rather than a finished product. When I look at the Oneida and the Grizzly they look like finished products. I know this may not be rational but it's just my opinion.

After doing research on these Jeff I was wondering the same thing. The Oneida looks easier to install and get going than the clearvue. This is just from what I have read and seen pictures of, but maybe someone can shed some light on this.

[Michael Gabbay]

After doing research on these Jeff I was wondering the same thing. The Oneida looks easier to install and get going than the clearvue. This is just from what I have read and seen pictures of, but maybe someone can shed some light on this.

Aaron / Jeff - The Oneida is a tank. The unit weighs around 200 pounds with the motor. That is good for durability but bad for the installation. I'm struggling with how to lift the unit onto the stand and cone.

I looked at the Clearvue. The issues I had with it are:

- Plastic. I just don't like the look of plastic for a heavy machine.
- Kit. they basically supply the main cyclone but you are left buying filters and mounts etc.
- Very small company. Was not sure about long term support.
- Noise. The web site said (when I read it) that the unit had a decibal rating of 92. That's awfully loud for a machine that should be on constantly.
- Motor. I believe you have to run a 5hp motor.

Now the unit may be a great performer and highly efficient but given that the db rating is 92 (very loud) and you are running a 5hp motor (more amps) and it is a kit I was not impressed. That's why I did not consider it.

My 2 cents...

Mike

[Matt Moore]

Here is a website that had tons of info.
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/Index.cfm

I have the Jet 650 with about 20ft of flex hose. I agree with the above posts that using it on all tools just does not get done since it is frequently too much of a pain. I do use it on my TS, Jointer and Planer religiously though. I also have a overhead air filter that helps with the fine stuff.

That being said, if I knew what I know now, I would definatley get a cyclone and probably the Clearvue. Read the info on the link I posted and you will find out why.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

If I may offer a couple of counter points....


.............I looked at the ClearVue. The issues I had with it are:

- Plastic. I just don't like the look of plastic for a heavy machine.
The plastic will not wear out, Steel will. There is a lot of silica in wood, and wet wood is worse, over a number of years, you WILL wear a hole in the steel cyclone, I very much doubt the plastic will wear out



- Kit. they basically supply the main cyclone but you are left buying filters and mounts etc.
If you do this, you can save a lot of money, but yes you have to order a few parts.



- Very small company. Was not sure about long term support. I very much doubt that you will be treated like a number by Ed and his son Matt, you will get great service and support. I don't really know what you are worried about for long term support, the units have only the motors as moving parts, and I'm sure the carry a warranty on the motors.



- Noise. The web site said (when I read it) that the unit had a decibel rating of 92. That's awfully loud for a machine that should be on constantly.
It is fairly straight forward to build a muffler for the cyclones, besides, the plastic ones would be quieter than the metal ones, I would think. You should be wearing hearing protection anytime you run it anyways, so who cares if it is "noisy". I don't run mine all the time, I have a switch by each blast gate, if I'm going to do a cut, I hit the switch, and then turn it off after I'm done.



- Motor. I believe you have to run a 5hp motor.
Ya, that would really suck!! :D



Now the unit may be a great performer and highly efficient but given that the db rating is 92 (very loud) and you are running a 5hp motor (more amps) and it is a kit I was not impressed. That's why I did not consider it.

My 2 cents...

Mike
And a good two cents they are, but I'm going to disagree with you on this one. If I were in the US and could get the ClearVue for $895 delivered, I'd jump on it.

Cheers!

[Aaron Beaver]

If I may offer a couple of counter points....


If you do this, you can save a lot of money, but yes you have to order a few parts.

I very much doubt that you will be treated like a number by Ed and his son Matt, you will get great service and support. I don't really know what you are worried about for long term support, the units have only the motors as moving parts, and I'm sure the carry a warranty on the motors.

Cheers!

My biggest concern buying something like a kit, is knowing that I would be able to set it up correctly and making/buying all the mounting equipment I would need.

From the clearvue site "The cyclone will produce a low pitch sound that will be transmitted through your walls if it isn't isolated with rubber mounts.".....Are all DC's like that?

Is the price of an Oneida that much more that you can't compare building a kit vs buying one ready to go so to speak or am I missing the ball on this one. :o

[tod evans]

aaron, more than price..or even dificulty of assembly..which one performs better? in the end you`ll have to service any piece of equipment whether 2 years or 10 years down the road so try and base your decision on what system performs well and will be easily serviced by you in your shop when the time comes...02 tod

[Jeff Cord]

I'm curious to hear about the Grizzly cyclone.
Jeff

[Jim Becker]

Jeff, the Grizzly cyclones are very new on the market and have not been shipping for very long. There are a few folks on SMC that have them, however. Use the search feature to see previous commentary.

[Al Willits]

OK, I've been trying to figure a way to get a permanent DC system in my garage and it ain't gonna happen, so I need to get a decent portable.
I'll still keep working on it, but I need a system that's portable and can be moved so the wife can put here car in at times.

Also my garage is going though major renovations (I had 12' added to front) and need to do major interior work before anything permanent can go in. Think long term project here....:)

Anyway, I am looking at the Delta 50-760 and JDS Dust force, both which have a 1 micron filter bag.
My question is, what's the difference between the bag and canister, other than $200???

Money is tight right now, with me wanting a jointer and plainer and the little Shebeast is starting to lose her sense of humor over my new hobby

So if a canister isn't gonna do much more, I'd hate to spend the extra money right now..

Al

[Matt Tawes]

It's no qesution that a cyclone is hands down a better choice vs. portables for the best in dust collection. Oneida has been the leader pretty much for a long time and when I was researching for one the others were not around so that's why I initially went with Oneida. I've had the same cyclone going on 7yrs. with it's original Leeson 1.5hp motor and the only thing I've upgraded was the external filter about 3yrs. ago. I only run a small shop for a living (16x22') and sometimes it's on steady throughout the day 5 or more days per week and it's served me well.
High HP and CFM is great and there are many nice units out there for the $$. Even if I only had a few machines to use it with I would buy a cyclone anyday vs. a portable .

[Al Willits]

I'm reposting this at the end of the posts, missed that the first time.
Sorry.

OK, I've been trying to figure a way to get a permanent DC system in my garage and it ain't gonna happen, so I need to get a decent portable.
I'll still keep working on a perm one, but I need a system that's portable and can be moved so the wife can put here car in at times.

Also my garage is going though major renovations (I had 12' added to front) and need to do major interior work before anything permanent can go in. Think long term project here....:)

Anyway, I am looking at the Delta 50-760 and JDS Dust force, both which have a 1 micron filter bag.
My question is, what's the difference between the bag and canister, other than $200???

Money is tight right now, with me wanting a jointer and plainer and the little Shebeast is starting to lose her sense of humor over my new hobby

So if a canister isn't gonna do much more, I'd hate to spend the extra money right now..
tia
Al
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[Glen Gunderson]

If you're looking for a temporary fix that will last until you can install a permanent one, I'd go with one of the cheapest you can find. Some people have had decent experiences with Harbor Freight's DC which I believe sells for $180. You probably get what you pay for, but there's really no point in spending much money on a good portable dust collector if you're already planning on replacing it later. There's the often repeated, but often true, adage that the most expensive dust collector you can buy is a cheap one because you'll replace it several times. You can mitigate this somewhat by buying the bottom of the barrel so that at least you'll have chip collection for a while before installing a proper permanent setup.


I know it may seem a little frustrating that you are just starting to set up shop and everyone is suggesting you spend a fortune on a cyclone, but people are doing so from their own experience of being dissatisfied with other options and spending hundreds or thousands more dollars replacing their dust collectors than they would have if they had bought quality in the beginning.

[Al Willits]

I understand buying the complete system, and I someday may just end up doing that.
But I doubt it gonna happen much before I retire, that's 6 or 7 years from now and using a cheap system for that long may not be benificial to both duct control and my lungs.

I only wish a full blown system would work for me, but it won't with what's going on now and if it means spending more later, so be it.

I'm pretty much stuck with the portable unit, just wondering if the canister is worth the $200?

Al

[Art Davis]

Looked at the ClearVue site and found it to be interesting. Though I didn't really try to do a "microsearch," I think the two terms LH and RH were not defined. Does this mean "left hand" and "right hand"---referring to the cyclone action?

Also, someone mentioned that they are "made in the US," but the site mentions Ontario. That's in Canada, no? Or is it Ontario, California?