A sign of the times?

[Chris Barton]

First, let me start by saying that this post, while starting as a rant, is really looking for feedback. I first really got interested in woodworking in the mid 70's and at that time there were few magazines that supported the hobby. But, there was Fine Woodworking, at that time a newly minted publication directed toward the kind of woodworking in which I was interested. I have continued to subscribe to FWW over the years but, have noticed a change. In my early years when I was young and made no money, I used to revel in the articles in the pages of FWW, such incredible equipment! At that time I had just bought a Sears Craftsman table saw, had been given a Craftsman RAS, and owned a early generation Tiwanese drillpress and a smattering of hand tools. I would use the projects in FWW as inspiration for my developing tallents. Over time, as my skill sets have grown, I have come to notice that my beloved FWW is not what it used to be. Projects that were really a shrecth for my fledgling skills in the late 1970's have been replaced with instructions on how to make a cutting board and the first article about turning green wood that I ever read by Alan Stirt (who looked like a cross between a terrorist and hippy at that time) have been replaced with with deep and insightfull instructions on how to make a box!?!? I know all this because I still have some of the articles from the 70's and can compare the styles side by side.

So, where am I going with this? One of the FAQs around here is about which magazines are "good" or have the best plans or instruction. What I have come to realize is that at some time over the history of FWW a coporate decission had to be made, "do we keep publishing an artsy-fartsy truely fine woodworking magazine or, do we make money and print a knock-off of Popular Mechanics?" I don't know the exact point that was made but, I can say with certainty that FWW is now on the lower portion of the list of 8-10 magazines I get monthly as far as looking forward to its content.

I have however, found a more recent ventage magazine that seems to capture what FWW was, that is "Woodwork." In many ways, it reminds me of what FWW was in the early days. It is devoted to truely fine woodworking, it is very technically challenging in some of the projects and articles and it stimulates the reader. "Woodwork" stands in stark contrast to the opposite end of the spectrum, "American Woodworker" which appears to be nothing more than a littany of advertisements and "Mission style" (ie. box furniture) style projects.

I would love to know how others that have watched the evolution of this hobby over years would summarize their thoughts about the various magazines and what they would like to see included in the articles as well as what they would like to see removed. Quite frankly, most of the magazines seem to be aimed at the very entry level woodworker and have seemed to abandon the "tempered by experience" devote. Lets hear what you think!

[Steve Schoene]

You are right about a change in FWW, though mostly I think there has been a broadening in the range, not a complete elimination of challenging projects. However, I suspect the choice that was made was not between publishing a truly fine woodworking magazine and a version of Popular Mechanics. It was a choice between increasing potential pool of readers versus going broke and having to leave bucolic Connecticut and return to big city journalism. Economic reality sometimes hits hard.

[tod evans]

glad i`m not the only one to notice the decline..tod

[Brian Hale]

I want a magazine that focuses on tools, techniques and problem solving. Those that specialize in "project plans" with drawings and templates are just so much kindling.

As far as FWW goes, it's still my favorite but is moving towards the PW and Wood style. Very sad. :(

Brian :)

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

I just posted the other night on WoodCentral about my disappointment with magazines in general lately, WOOD in particular. Over time, I think eventually you start seeing 'repeat' material...and that's nobody's fault necessarily...it has to be a chore to keep coming up with fresh material.

I don't really 'get anything' from any of them anymore...I'm down to two subscriptions (WOOD and WW Journal I think). Neither will be renewed. If I see something on the rack that interests me, I'll buy that issue.

KC

[Cecil Arnold]

Chris, there is a J-school line about USA Today--the newspaper for people who find TV network news too complicated. That, to some extent is what you have witnessed over the past 35 or so years. The reading public wants to be narrow cast to, does not want to spend the $$ for ink on anything that does not interest them and publishers have responded to maintain the widest possible audience or reader base. While I don't want to be a fault finder, to me this is the same mind set that reduces important social issues to sound bites and bumper stickers.

Having said the above, I think the issue is complex and might be best address by a letter writing campaign to bring the issue to the attention of the publisher. Often people become channelized in thinking and need a real wake-up call to make change. Then there is the "nobody knows anything" problem. I was aware of this phenomenon, but it was really brought home to me about 18 years ago by a writer's agent in LA named Ivan Green. Ivan started out in episodic radio to give you some idea of his years of experience, and had represented writers who worked for some of the biggest names in H'wood (Norman Lear, et al). His example of nobody knows anything revolved around a young man who had written a techno-thriller and was looking for a publisher. He tried all the "name" publishers and none seemed to be interested. The rejection letters all indicated that the subject matter was just too technical for the majority of the reading public. Finally the writer found a small press (the Naval Institute Press) that specialized in publishing nautical themed work. They bought his book and published a limited number of copies. The rest is history. The writer was Tom Clancy. The book was Hunt for Red October. Suddenly someone knew something and there followed a great number of techno thrillers. FWW needs to take some chances in their articles to find what is necessary to reconnect with their original reader base.

[Chris Rosenberger]

I am a charter suscriber to FWW. Like Chris B. I used the projects in FWW as a challange to improve my woodworking skills. I also was amazed what woodworkers were creating. I grew up in a rual area where all woodworking projects were buit to be used. I had never heard of making something just to look at. I have seen FWW evolve in the 30+ years I have been a subscriber. I have also seen woodworking evolve over that same time span. Look at what has happened with tools. Some of the changes have been good & some have been bad. The tool companys have tried to service the changing market place. FWW has done the same. They had to increase circulation to keep subscription rates lower than they would have been or go out of business. I still look foward to the arrival of FWW every other month. Maybe it is just habit, but I still enjoy reading FWW more than any other WW magazine I get.

[Jim Becker]

While it is true that most of the magazines have changed over time, the reason is because they are trying desperately to maintain or increase readership. Unfortunately, it's a business thing. FWW (which I still regard as excellent) had broadened their material as Steve pointed out, but they still do maintain an impressive stable of contributors. I believe that part of the motive for this was to try and draw in more people who were "beyond" WOOD Magazine, Popular Woodworking, American Woodworker, etc., but not quite ready for the other end of the spectrum. It also has to do with drawing advertising dollars which are what keeps the magazine alive. Chris just posted quite well what I'm trying to say here ...the magazine has evolved just as many of us have...and not because it wanted to, but because it had to.

I discovered Woodwork a few years ago and do enjoy it, as "unrefined" as it is graphically. It's very much a "different" read than FWW in style. I enjoy reading it, but find I rarely pick up an issue "again" like I do with FWW. I fell off the bandwagon with WOOD primarily because it was just repeating itself over and over...and didn't enjoy doing that because I have friends there after many years of working with them in the forum as well as writing some online material for them. But it just wasn't worth it to me to continue a subscription that I wasn't enjoying reading anymore. Same with ShopNotes and its cousin.

Right now, FWW, Fine Homebuilding (also from Taunton) and Woodwork make up my normal magazine reading relative to woodworking. And as I stated, FWW is the one I tend to revisit and draw projects from.

[John Bailey]

I'm definitely on the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to woodworking. While I can make a pretty good dulcimer, and, what I consider, an excellent kayak paddle, the fine furniture I see in Fine Woodworking leaves me in total awe. Often I buy the magazine just to see the work from the subscribers. I don't have a subscription to any woodworking magazine. I rarely buy one unless there is something on the cover that interests me. However, I find myself buying Fine Woodworking more often than any of the rest.

On the overall issue of what the media, in general, has to do to survive, I think all forms of media have gone more "MTV." It has already been said, everything has to be done in sound bites to keep our interests. Magazines have to have more pictures and be more glossy. To me, the more print, the more I have to use my imagination. The more print the more contemplative I become. I like that part. Even on the forums there is an air of expediency. Notice all the "LOML's" and "BTW's" and yes, "FW."

All that being said, I'm not too worried. I think the pendulum will swing back, some publisher will offer a magazine that the subscribers know up front they will have to spend more money for, but they will spend it because they like it. For the sailing community "This Old Boat," "Wooden boat," and "Practical Sailor" fills that niche. Someone will come up with a woodworkers publication of similar interest.

John

[Chuck Saunders]

The content of FWW has oscillated for years. There is a delicate balance between Archetecural Digest and Popular Mechanics. I remember watching the letters in FWW go from "Maloof and Krenov are great but how about something I could do" to "Hey show me something to aspire to" and back again. I remember when I saw the painted chest on the cover of one issue thinking "the goes the neighborhood". Currently, I consider FWW to be one of the better publications but catering to the lower end a little too much. I preferred to have it as a goal to achieve with tips to get me there. I also realize that you have to grow your readership and that means expanding to meet the desires of the majority interest. Kinda sad the effect business has on ideals.
Chuck

[Ken Garlock]

One point that has been overlooked is that in 30 years you have a completely new generation of young woodworkers. These are the people who got through our public school systems 'feeling good about themselves' rather than learning things that will be useful in life.

The magazines were also submitted to this educational system, and now they have the 'feel good' mentality that breeds complex projects like cutting boards, and '6 things to do with a sheet of plywood.' The projects are simple, the editors go away feeling good, and the reader/builder goes away thinking he actually accomplished something.

Now before you get out your skinning knives and ball bats, remember that SMC represents only a very small part of the readership of any one WW magazine. From my point of view we do have a group of WW experts participating in SMC, and I can truthfully say that I learn something every day as I scan the forums.

I am getting too many magazines. When renewal time comes I think I will discontinue any WW magazine that contains advertising for automobiles, and other non-WW things.

BTW, I also second the recommendation on WoodWork magazine.

As always, my comments are worth what you paid for them.

[Dev Emch]

Hey Chris.... watch those comments about folks resembling hippies and terrorists... I resemble that comment.;):D (Sometimes at least. I did get my yearly hair cut two days ago).

All joking aside, your commentary is spot on. You can look at the rail and stile router bit set as the decline of woodworking. Not that these bits dont perform well but rather that they have cantaminated the knowledge base of the craft. I.E. For most newbies to the art, this is their first and really only introduction on building frame and rail panels. They just cannot believe there are other ways to do this that dont require you to cope the whole joint!

Then we have all the goofy dowel jigs. Why use a mortise and tenon joint when I can use a cheap drill, this fancy jig from the woodworking show and two bits worth of dowel rod to glue the joint together.

And if it doesnt fit, no worries as putty is my buddy.

And I see this decline in the profession. Last week, a couple of cabinet makers thought I was insane for wanting to buy an old moulder. They had no idea of what it even was or how it worked! Once I had won the auction for a mattison 276, I explained to them exactly what this thing can do and how it can be used in a versatile way. They then realized that this would be a good addition to their shop. Its not cost effective to buy 100,000 dollar weinigs but an older and smaller push feed moulder can be of use. But no one really knows how this stuff works anymore.

Right now, the only magazine I buy is FWW and that is on an issue by issue basis. If C.H. Becksvort or Garret Hack have something of note, I will buy it. But gone are the articles on things like carving shells for dressers and the famous ball and claw foot. What we do see is one machine tool review after another for new stuff.

And of course, who could post a response to Chris on this topic without railing against the router table. What happened to the shaper! The shaper is vastly superior to any router table yet its never reviewed or covered in the pages of FWW. I actually brought this up with John White and his response was that management does not wish to expose the readers to confusing and potentially dangerous industrial machines. That the primary user base is the hobbyist and these guys have no use for an industrial shaper. I guess this same bunch doesnt have any use for how to articles on carving ball and claw feet as well. Were would the mag be without the occasional babble from Becksvort or Hack?

And of course, you cannot eliminate the old iron gang. The OWWM contingent on Yahoo groups is both one of the fastest growing as well as largest of the groups. Does that tell you something right there! Hows that for machine feedback. Yet no one really covers some of the lovingly restored machines that are out there. Given the fact that most OWWM folks are hobbyist/garage woodworkers, there should be a whole section devoted to this one topic. Right now, one of the top jointer restorations belongs to Mr. Preston .. umm, excuse me, Dr. Preston M.D. Yup, this fellow really outdid all of us on his restoration of a 16 in Northfield HD jointer and its for his hobby. I really hope that FWW can blaze new ground and make some changes as these complaints are getting more frequent and more vocal.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I suspect that one driving force behind the dumbing of the trade is the HUGE influx of rich yuppie wannabe woodworkers. I have know more than a few of these guys.

They can afford the fancy shmancy machinery. They can buy the European machines, they can open a whole shop with one phone call and a credit card.

Then they need to do something with those pricy toys. They do what they can which is boxes and pondering the almost unfathomable workings of a cutting board. They can spend hours trying to master the sublime skill of sharpening a chisel or put a point on a pencil.


The Journals are run by marketing people who are not too slow to observe when money is being spent and identify who it is spending it. Then they do exactly as you'd expect any marketing geek to do. They target the money. The money kids won't be hand carving elizabethian clawed feet on their tables any time soon.

Then also there is another demographic recently entering the market en-mass: Older people who need a hobby.
They get smaller managable afforable tools and do what you'd expect 'em to do: They build boxes and cutting boards.

One way or another Boxes and Cutting Boards are King of the Pile.

[Jim Becker]

I know you want to be direct, Cliff, but out of the 7500+ members of SMC, there are a lot of folks who might fit into any of a gazillion categories, including those you mention. I'll go so far as to say that somewhere along the way I somewhat fit into that first category...well, not rich, but prior to having the kids, quite comfortable with a DINK lifestyle. I made the conscious decision to buy the best tools I could afford early on as a hedge on the future before I ever learned how to sharpen a chisel. If I ever am able to retire (?), I know at that point, I'd not be able to afford what I could over the last six years. And if for some reason woodworking hadn't worked out, I would have had desirable equipment available. My skills have progressed...and have a long way to go. My reading material has also changed as I mentioned above. The bottom line is that "boxes and cutting boards" (or their equivalents) are both what sells magazines and what builds skills for those who want to do more. Despite the reduction in high-end projects (and they are still there), FWW is gaining readers that stayed away longer in the past. And I applaud the folks who have had the means to go out and buy the expensive stuff for whatever reason made sense to them, 'cause it created a market that made it possible for me to get those items in my shop, too...

[tod evans]

not with a 10 foot pole!

[Gary Jacuk]

I too was a charter subscriber to FWW and somewhere around 5 years ago or so, the magazine just got too slick and watered down. Part of it was that my skills advanced at the same time the magazine chose to appeal to a demographic which I was beyond. Recently I saw something which basically stated that if you're over 50, advertisers have no interest in appealing to you......you're dead as far as they're concerned. So these publications are tailored for the next generation coming up behind us. That next generation that they figure is still in the "acquiring" stage.

[Dev Emch]

One way or another Boxes and Cutting Boards are King of the Pile.

Not to be flippant but did it ever occur to you that a pile of kindling starts a fire? Hmmmmmm.... yet another application for boxes and cutting boards.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I know you want to be direct, Cliff,.
Years of law and my writing style is blunter than an old baseball bat and twice as ugly - so I'm told.



but out of the 7500+ members of SMC, there are a lot of folks who might fit into any of a gazillion categories, including those you mention. .
No I don't think to. Take yourself. Merely because you are able to fond parallels doesn't make you a card carrying member of the Yuppie wannabe class. Note: that was the class I ladled derision upon and not the retirees.



I'll go so far as to say that somewhere along the way I somewhat fit into that first category...well, not rich, but prior to having the kids, quite comfortable with a DINK lifestyle.[/quote{ dunno what a DINK is. But you evolved. The Yuppies don't.

[quote=Jim Becker] I made the conscious decision to buy the best tools I could afford early on as a hedge on the future before I ever learned how to sharpen a chisel.
Good for you. I did the same. Sadly the best I could afford back then wasn't much to brag about.


If I ever am able to retire (?), I know at that point, I'd not be able to afford what I could over the last six years. And if for some reason woodworking hadn't worked out, I would have had desirable equipment available. My skills have progressed...and have a long way to go. My reading material has also changed as I mentioned above.


The bottom line is that "boxes and cutting boards" (or their equivalents) are both what sells magazines and what builds skills for those who want to do more.
Yes to both points. That was part of my premise. However the yuppie wannabes don't evolve. They collect expensive gadgets that go mostly unused.


FWW is gaining readers that stayed away longer in the past.

I submit that the readers who were staying away are not the same persons who are joining the subscribership today. Excepting of course those whose incomes have risen to allow them the luxury of a journal or two.


And I applaud the folks who have had the means to go out and buy the expensive stuff for whatever reason made sense to them, 'cause it created a market that made it possible for me to get those items in my shop, too...
Hooray for them, also. I merely snorted in disgust at the yuppie wannabe.

[Gary Herrmann]

OK, I admit it. I have in the past, and still make boxes. Mostly shop stuff tho. No cutting boards yet. The plastic one we have seems to do just fine.

Another mag you might consider is Woodworking. I believe it's published by the Popular Woodworking folks. One thing thats kinda cool about it is that it doesn't have any ads.

Some of the articles are good, some aren't.

I subscribe to a several mags. FWW and some others. My wife and I both work. We have an active 5 year old. We live in an old house with extensive landscaping, so there is always something that needs doing.

I've always been a big reader. I have more wwing books than I really need, but I'm a bit of a book geek. My non-shop free time comes in dribs and drabs, so the mags are nice fillers. Kinda like short stories. I get a quick hit and then on to the next thing.

Maybe I'm a yuppie wanna be. I hope not, but I guess anything is possible. I like this hobby because my father made most of the furniture in our house. I want to teach my son to do the same. If I make it to retirement, I will be perfectly happy splitting my time between the shop, the garden and my lazy boy - where I will probably fall asleep with a magazine or a book on my chest every day. What a wonderful thought.

[Vaughn McMillan]

Cliff, I'm a relative newbie and quite frankly, boxes and cutting boards have paid for a decent percentage of my tools, thank you very much. I've had a love (and some high school experience) for working with wood for about 30 years, and in the last year or so have finally been in a position financially and space-wise to start putting together a shop. Yes, I'd like to make more involved projects, and I am doing so in a gradient fashion. For now, I'm happy making what I make, as perfectly as I can make it (which ain't perfect, but nothing I'm ashamed of). The snobbishness for the "boxes and cutting boards" crowd that one could infer from your post adds nothing to the discussion here and offers no help to others. It does fit the pattern, though. To restate one of Jim Becker's points a bit more bluntly: You insulted a pretty decent percentage of the SMC membership in one way or another with your post, and I don't think anyone gained a thing from it.

[We return now to your regularly-scheduled magazine thread]

I subscribe to FWW and Wood, and definitely won't be renewing the Wood subscription. FWW mostly has projects I wouldn't necessarily want to make, but I do learn various tips and tricks from the magazine. Wood is a little to basic for my needs.

- Vaughn

[Corey Hallagan]

I have subscribed to wood working mags on and off for the last 20 years. Definitely a recyling of articles and the types. I find tool reviews worth less and less to me. With the internet, I get more out of what I can find there and especially here. I won't be renewing any of my magazines with the exception of Wood Turning Design. I will review them on the stand for particular articles to see if I find anything worth buying otherwise.

Corey

[Martin Shupe]

As far as magazines go, I subscribe to FWW and Popular Woodworking. I buy the other one of Chris Schwarz's off the rack (Woodworking?) but would subscribe in a heartbeat if they offered a subscription. Hey Chris, it's time to go to 4 issues a year and offer subscriptions!!!

I would like FWW better if they printed more articles by Chris Becksvoort. That man is full of untapped wisdom. Listen up, FWW, print more stuff by CHB!!

I peruse Woodwork on the newstand, and buy about every third issue. It is sometimes a little too artsy for my taste, but often has Shaker articles by Kerry Pierce and others, and sometimes has good technique/skill articles.

I like FWW, even though I think it has "dumbed itself down", trying to attract more novice woodworkers. For example, the article on scary sharpening. I think most, if not all, of that information can be found easily on the web. I would have rather seen a project type article in its place, even if I didn't plan on building that particular project.

This month I bought the current issue of Woodworker's Journal, but only because it had a Shaker style drop leaf table that the author built at Kelly Mehler's School. For those of you looking for a school, Kelly runs a first class operation. He has a few openings left this year, but you can get on his email list for next year if you go to his website. Just do a search on his name to find it.

At this point in my tool acquisition program, I have little use for tool reviews. I think the once per year issue, like FWW does, is a better idea than wasting several pages every month.

I spend a lot of time in hotel rooms. I bring woodworking magazines and books to pass the time. There is only so much TV you can watch without going crazy.

I think as people's skills evolve, they expect more from their magazines, and the magazines don't always deliver.

For what it is worth, I was asked to complete a survey by FWW a few months ago, so they are attempting to find out what their readers want. Now if they will just listen...

[Alan DuBoff]

Sure, magazines change...and so do shops...and the shops nowdays are much different also. I like FWW still, and consider it one of the better magazines. I also like PWW, and Chris Schwartz has given it new life.

I almost hate to admit that I enjoy handwork the most, and to me the power tools are really just becoming a means to get the wood sized and shaped to do something by hand with it. A professional cabinet maker will not have the same interests and must use their power tools to build with, if they want to be cost effective.

I also have a need to work aorund my house, and often the work involved with the house are not my favorite, but things that I want to complete to either improve or enhance the environment for my family. Building an office in my backyard was quite a project to take on, and some of the work I had done for me, and much of it I completed myself. Adding an exterior door to my master bedroom, another such project...not a fun project, but it makes my house more functional for me and my family. Oddly, some of these projects are more likely to be found in Fine Homebuilding, but I don't subscribe to it as I don't have a lot of interest in it. (almost sound hypocritical :p) I do subscribe to Fine Woodworking and still find it to be one of the best overall publications for woodworkers today.

There are many publications these days, much to choose from. What I subscribe to last year might not be what I subscribe to today.

As an example, ShopNotes has provided less useful information to me than it did a year or two ago, and I let my subscription lapse...but at the same time, Popular Woodworking has improved and I now subscribe to it.

The internet is full of information, and in some cases can provide information that is not available in magazines. I think we're lucky these days, as there is so much available for free, online. Maybe thewoodworkingchannel.com is the way of the future? I don't think completely, but some of it is cool to me if I don't have to listen to some router wailin' in my ear while I watch...(yeah, I have little interest in the Router Workshop :rolleyes:).

SMC supplements magazines for me also, and provides interaction that a magazine doesn't provide. This was not available 10 years ago, not that it would have mattered to me as I didn't refind my love for woodworking until more recent. But the point is that the internet has changed things, and it certainly is changing woodworking. Some may say for the worse, some may say for the better, but either way it is effecting how puplications take a role in our life, or what interests that folks have. I think this all just continues to get better. We have more magazines today than we did 10 years ago for woodworking, so the internet hasn't changed the fact that folks still buy magazines.

[John Bailey]

todd,

would you be willing to go 9 1/2?

john

[Craig Stueve]

not with a 10 foot pole!

Maybe a 12 foot pole? Go ahead I dare ya!:D

Craig

[Allen Bookout]

Anyone know anything about a magazine named "Woodsmith"? Just received an add for a free issue. "No ads! 100% Woodworking" it says.

Thanks! Allen

[Alan DuBoff]

Anyone know anything about a magazine named "Woodsmith"? Just received an add for a free issue. "No ads! 100% Woodworking" it says.I subscribed to this not long ago. It's published by the same folks that do ShopNotes, and is mainly aimed at woodworking projects. It doesn't have ads, which is cool, and they sent me a trial issue a while ago with a 2 year sub for about $19. I happen to think this is a pretty good magazine, but it all depends on what your taste I 'spose. Some nice arts & crafts stuff, and shaker style...

[Allen Bookout]

Thanks Alan! I think that I will give it a shot. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Allen

[Chris Barton]

Well, I am gratified by the number of replies to my original post. It has been very interesting to read the various viewpoints. I would like to add some additional comments. First, I am not at all convinced that the advent of the router table our the various lines of consumer tools are what brought about the change in FWW. As I said in my original post, at some point in time (probably late 70-mid 80s) FWW realized that if they wanted to survive and grow their subscriber base, they would have to change the basic tenent of their publication. So, rather than focus on the high-end of the market they directed their efforts for the broadest appeal. This is not necessarily a bad thing but, it was a big change. Also, let me say that there is nothing wrong with making cutting boards (I thought of you Vaughn when I wrote the original post, you too Corey) and boxes but, that sort of article shouldn't be the underpinning of a magazine that calles itself Fine Woodworking.

Like others, I subscribe to Wood, PWW, AW, ... and as someone has already posted to this thread, my reason for this is that I spend much of my work week evenings in hotels and I need the reading material. All of these magazines have a place. For me, it looks like Woodworking will become my favorite reading material. I still like FWW and will keep it in the subscription pile. Wood, hmm, AW, hmmmm, I just don't know.

Again, thanks for the feedback folks!

[ROBERT ELLIS]

I for one found the article on cutting boards very refreshing,timely and inspiring. Since 1997 (with the exception of maybe 3 years) I made my living at wworking making Shaker style furniture out of cherry. Year after year of making the same pieces caused me to lose interest in wworking as a whole. Just recently I started public work again and finally have time to do some of the "fun" things I've always wanted to do...like cutting boards, something quick to make, no staining, easy to finish, and a chance to mix up woods, contrasting colors, etc...

I'm currently interested in pursuing a business of making only cutting boards and at the same time I'm planning on getting some of the boards "juried" by the Ky Craft Marketing Program. This will hopefully open up new markets for me, utlimately maybe doing wworking full time again. So for me the article couldn't have been more timely.

If this has any value, I will add I actually used 3 more tools in creating these boards than I do when I make my cherry cabinets....

If FWW has to limit itself to furniture only then the name of the magazine should be Fine Furniture.

Cheers, Robert

[Andy Hoyt]

I cancelled all subscriptions on speculation that Awesome Woodworking (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26109) would quickly become the king of the heap.

Come on Markus, pony up!

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

OK, I admit it. I have in the past, and still make boxes. Mostly shop stuff tho. No cutting boards yet. The plastic one we have seems to do just fine. I make boxes too and cutting boards are not at all beneath me. I'll be making them with my granddaughter too.
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Another mag you might consider is Woodworking. I believe it's published by the Popular Woodworking folks. One thing thats kinda cool about it is that it doesn't have any ads. Thanks for the tip.


Maybe I'm a yuppie wanna be. Why would even entertain that proposition?
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I like this hobby because my father made most of the furniture in our house. I want to teach my son to do the same. See? That is by definition not part of anything I wrote.
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Cliff, I'm a relative newbie and quite frankly, boxes and cutting boards have paid for a decent percentage of my tools, thank you very much.
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Yah OK but are a few boxes and cutting boards going to be the sum total of your effort? Is your presence in the trade going to be defined solely by some under-used expensive equipment about which you do little more than boast - till the next rish kid's fad comes along? You are reading way too much into my post. You are assuming things I simply did not say. Then you are imposing onto me credit for those things. That’s not nice.


The snobbishness for the "boxes and cutting boards" crowd that one could infer from your post … Don’t. Don’t infer anything. If you do that with things I write you will have lost my intent and imposed your own. Then, when you get your pennies in a bunch you will have gotten yourself upset not at me or anything I intended but at things you brought to the table all on your own. However, you will mistakenly direct your anger at me and that’s not a good thing. I write what I intend. If I haven’t said it then it isn’t intended. Other people’s inferences and assumptions won’t be anything I will accept responsibility for as they don‘t come from me.

<o =""></o>

You insulted a pretty decent percentage of the SMC membership in one way or another with your post, and I don't think anyone gained a thing from it.
No I did not. It’s not impossible that some persons may have some need to read things into what I wrote I can’t help I can’t control it and I won’t be responsible for what folks make up.
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How would you like if when you post a thing some folks impose their own material onto your writing – things you didn’t say – and then call you to task over it??

[Lee DeRaud]

Vaughn, please don't feed the troll.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Oh stop it Lee. Just read what I write and don't add words, meaning, or intent. What should one do to prevent someone from adding things where they don't belong? Would you suggest that one sprinkle disclaimers or abstain from flatly stating things?

It's patently unfair to impose on any one the obligation to sprinkle their posts with disclaimers such as:

"Don't get me wrong I mean this and that and not the other."
or
"Hope no one takes this the wrong way - - - etc.. ."

It's just nonsensical to demand that in order to prevent people from undertaking their own affirmative act of ading words, meaning, and intent where such was not so stated. Plenty of folks do sprinkle their writing with just such disclaimers but to suggest that it is somehow a requirement is illogical. It also suggests that the average reader won't (or can't) simply read what is written and leave it at that.

Reading a couple of the objectors posts it seems that instead of reading what I wrote they read something that sounds like "people who make boxes cutting boards and sharpen chisels are not doing anything worthwhile" or something with such a sentiment.

Yet no where was such a statement made. To get there one must impose those words and meanings.

[Brian Hale]

Vaughn, please don't feed the troll.

Here Here

Brian

[Andy Hoyt]

not with a 10 foot pole!

How about a 10' writ.

[Chris Barton]

How in heavens did I manage to stir this up?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

And this is Ken in Idaho....looking down....shaking his head!:confused:

[Bob Marino]

Chris,

I see it as a decline also, but all is not lost...I suppose. While I see FWW as having declined, I see that Popular Woodworking has risen to the challenge. Interesting articles, presented well, made it my favorite woodworking magazine. Chris Schwartz has done a terrific job!

Bob

[Allen Bookout]

While I am not adding anything to the origional post topic it is a great thread for me as all of my subscriptions have expired and I was wondering whether or not to just forget it but now I am giving Popular Woodworking a try.

Thanks Bob!

Allen

[Dev Emch]

O.K., let me add this to the argument. Chris et al in no way tried to offend anyone with the cutting boards and boxes theme. These items in and of themselves are a part of woodworking. But do they belong in the pages of the flag ship publication on fine woodworking? A publication that has become the flagship publication through the writings of folks like Tage Fried, Frank Klaus, C.H. Becksvort, Garret Hack, Steve Laka (sp?) etc. I still remember and morn the loss of Jim Kingshot and recently the loss of Tage Freid.

Even though boxes and cutting boards are a nice aside from the pressure cooker of doing full scale kitchens, they do represent a medium for newer woodworkers to cut their teeth on. And how many boxes have the old timers made to contain items like drill bits, hand planes, and other expensive hand tools and accessories? So dont think for one second that the hard core dont make boxes... they make quite a few.

A better solution and one that effectively exists is to let the magazines aimed at newer woodworkers tackle the box and the cutting board. Woodwork and Popular Woodworking for example. FWW on the other hand needs to get back to hard core basics. This would include the section on restoring old machines and possibly a section on architectual woodworking which includes projects like entry doors and garage doors and basic sash.

[Dev Emch]

Chris,

I see it as a decline also, but all is not lost...I suppose. While I see FWW as having declined, I see that Popular Woodworking has risen to the challenge. Interesting articles, presented well, made it my favorite woodworking magazine. Chris Schwartz has done a terrific job!

Bob

Agreed! Good Points.

[Lee DeRaud]

Oh stop it Lee. Just read what I write and don't add words, meaning, or intent. What should one do to prevent someone from adding things where they don't belong? Would you suggest that one sprinkle disclaimers or abstain from flatly stating things?

It's patently unfair to impose on any one the obligation to sprinkle their posts with disclaimers such as:

"Don't get me wrong I mean this and that and not the other."
or
"Hope no one takes this the wrong way - - - etc.. ."

It's just nonsensical to demand that in order to prevent people from undertaking their own affirmative act of ading words, meaning, and intent where such was not so stated. Plenty of folks do sprinkle their writing with just such disclaimers but to suggest that it is somehow a requirement is illogical. It also suggests that the average reader won't (or can't) simply read what is written and leave it at that.

Reading a couple of the objectors posts it seems that instead of reading what I wrote they read something that sounds like "people who make boxes cutting boards and sharpen chisels are not doing anything worthwhile" or something with such a sentiment.

Yet no where was such a statement made. To get there one must impose those words and meanings.You seem to be reading an awful lot into my gentle suggestion to Vaughn. Perhaps you're seeing things in my posts that aren't there.

All one can do is interpret the written words as one sees fit, as you seem to be doing. Sauce for the goose, and all that.

[Allen Bookout]

Case closed? Or as I prefer----Case closed!!!!!!!!!

[Mark Singer]

I think the issue today is that there are so many more woodworkers probably do to TV shows about woodworking and home improvement. I think this is a good thing....some people will try it and really like it and go from boxes and simple furniture to advanced projects if they stick with it. If they loose interest...they go back to watching tv from the sofa. Which is probably not great! Whatever they are making...they are on the path to improving skills and learning the joys of woodworking. It is difficult for FWW to identify who the audience is....how difficult a featured project should be and what they should focus on. I don't think I have ever wanted to build any projects that are featured....it is great though to see the approach....joinery, techniques, finishes and compare your own preferences. I have learned a lot from reading these magazines...
They always seem very weak on design....the featured projects are usually unimaginative and really don't inspire building. Still they are a good source of information.
It would be nice if there was another magazine that featured more artistic woodwrking....I do get Woodwork and it is often good,,,,still I wish there was something that really showed some strong work and other than the typical solutions to building ...this is what I am interested in. I think here in lies the problem woodworking is a vast subject and there are many specific interests and it is difficult for one magazine to satify all of us...

[Lee DeRaud]

I think the issue today is that there are so many more woodworkers probably do to TV shows about woodworking and home improvement. I think this is a good thing....some people will try it and really like it and go from boxes and simple furniture to advanced projects if they stick with it. If they loose interest...they go back to watching tv from the sofa. Which is probably not great! Whatever they are making...they are on the path to improving skills and learning the joys of woodworking. It is difficult for FWW to identify who the audience is....how difficult a featured project should be and what they should focus on. I don't think I have ever wanted to build any projects that are featured....it is great though to see the approach....joinery, techniques, finishes and compare your own preferences. I have learned a lot from reading these magazines...
They always seem very weak on design....the featured projects are usually unimaginative and really don't inspire building. Still they are a good source of information.
It would be nice if there was another magazine that featured more artistic woodwrking....I do get Woodwork and it is often good,,,,still I wish there was something that really showed some strong work and other than the typical solutions to building ...this is what I am interested in. I think here in lies the problem woodworking is a vast subject and there are many specific interests and it is difficult for one magazine to satify all of us...Just a small observation to add to that: the pieces that show up in the 'gallery' section seem to have exactly the qualities that the 'feature' projects lack, especially with regard to design. But typically all we get is one picture and one paragraph for each of those.

[Alan DuBoff]

I for one found the article on cutting boards very refreshing,timely and inspiring.It had some interesting ideas in it. I'm working in the garage with the gitties, we're making 3 heart shaped cutting boards for mother's day. :D

I'm currently interested in pursuing a business of making only cutting boards and at the same time I'm planning on getting some of the boards "juried" by the Ky Craft Marketing Program. This will hopefully open up new markets for me, utlimately maybe doing wworking full time again. So for me the article couldn't have been more timely.Excellent. I was looking at cutting boards at William Sonoma, my wife likes to shop there, it's a very nice cooking store, which you might be familiar. Simple boards go for about $60 retail, and up as high as $200 for larger fancy ones, say to carve a turkey on.

Sorry, not trying to steal this thread, but I found that cutting board article useful in FWW, and yes, I do still subscribe to FWW, even though PWW is probably my favorite mag these days. FWW still fills a need for me.

And I agree on having reading material. I took the freshly arrived PWW with me on a plane to Seattle recentely and was pleasantly surprised at the cool article on claming options for a workbench.

[Rick de Roque]

Chris,

I see it as a decline also, but all is not lost...I suppose. While I see FWW as having declined, I see that Popular Woodworking has risen to the challenge. Interesting articles, presented well, made it my favorite woodworking magazine. Chris Schwartz has done a terrific job!

Bob
I think PWW has gotten better but am I the only one that thinks Chris Schwartz needs to do something with his hair :D

rick

[Hank Knight]

I think it's significcant that many of the posts in this thread start with something like: "I subscribed to FWW years ago when I was just beginning woodworking. It was a great magazine way back then with interesting articles, but it has declined and now offers only pablum for the masses."

That fits me too; I started reading FWW when it first hit the news stands and I loved it. The articles on hand cutting dovetails and building 18th Centruy reproductions were enormously entertaining, as were the articles on tools and shops. But I've come a long way with my woodworking since the 70s and I'm no longer intrigued by dissertations on pins first or tails first like I was in the early days. I've read Frid and Krenov and everything else I can find, so it takes a lot more to captivate me now than it did then; my knowledge, experience and increased skill level has narrowed my focus.

I agree that FWW has "dumbed down" some, but I still think it's one of the best woodworking publications out there. I'll bet it still appeals to lots of people who are at the stage of their woodworking journey I was when I picked up my first copy. I hope so, anyway. I hope it continues to inspire people to take up woodworking as a serious hobby, just as it did for me 35 years ago. If I have to dig deeper to find woodworking information that satisfies my curiosity, so be it. That's why I come here. I still subscribe to FWW, by the way, and will continue to do so.

My $.02

Hank

[glenn bradley]

Although oocaisionally disappointed that the magazine may not be focused on my immediate interest, I enjoy ideas for a chest of drawers I may never make ($1200 in material alone) along with a ceder sofa table that I can practice my skills on (under $100).

[Parker Nicholson]

It's called marketing. ;)

[Chip Olson]

Anyone know anything about a magazine named "Woodsmith"?

They sent me a free issue the other day. I'm a big fan of ad-free magazines (I subscribe to Consumer Reports and Cook's Illustrated), and it had some interesting projects and shop tips, but appeard to be written at about a third-grade level. I don't think I'll subscribe.

[Barry Bruner]

Started buying FWW in the early 80`s , when I get my last copy I will not re-up. You are totally correct ,I am tired of varnish comparisions and advertisements. I go back and read my old issues more than the new ones. I buy 2 or 3 woodworking books a year and they are hit and miss, but the last one I bought was great. It is Fine Furniture for a lifetime by Glen Huey. I`m not doing a advertisement for him but if you like 18 th century stuff he is great and has pretty good plans with each items. He also has vidios which I am going to try. barry bruner

[Bruce Benjamin]

Wow Cliff, are you just having a bad day or are you always
this offensive? Your, "Years of law" really show when you're
trying to defend your statements. Don't you think that if
you think that people are completely misunderstanding your
posts that maybe it's you and not them? I'll bet you would
do well writing those small-print disclaimers for television loan
ads. The people who have responded to your posts critically
aren't stupid or ignorant people. And neither am I. If your
goal is to start a big debate using big words and lawyer-like
phrasing then I suggest you won't find many supporters here.
I sure am glad I'm not rich enough to be a yuppie or I guess I'd
have to be offended. :p Relax man. Do you talk to your
friends in this way? We're all supposed to be friendly here I
thought. And passing judgment on big groups of people
ain't very friendly in my book.

Bruce
(Fairly poor but if you looked at my shop you'd never know it)

[Allen Bookout]

They sent me a free issue the other day. I'm a big fan of ad-free magazines (I subscribe to Consumer Reports and Cook's Illustrated), and it had some interesting projects and shop tips, but appeard to be written at about a third-grade level. I don't think I'll subscribe.
Thanks for the info Chip! Talking about Woodsmith magazine. Allen

[Barry Bruner]

I agree nothing but advertisements and varnish comparisons. When my subscription is done ,I`m done. BARRY BRUNER

[Keith Christopher]

I love mission furniture, but you know if wood mag prints one more mission style article, I think I'm gonna go contemporary with all my designs ! That being said, I have to agree repeats and same type articles are going to happen. I just buy from the newstand now, but I still subscribe to woodsmith.

[Earl Kelly]

After reading all the critical commentary on the WW mags, it seems the readership has advanced in skill levels, but not the publications. Everyone looks for something different in their mag, too bad there isn't one to take it to a higher level.

I took FWW for yrs. stopped many yrs ago. Actually stopped all WW mags, except for one, and it's not really a mag. My favorite and most informative, at least for me is Woodshop News. Has articles on people in industry, machinery and materials. There are no how-to articles, they even feature small furnituremakers who may not be known by the masses. If you ever get the chance pickup a copy I don't think you'll be disappointed, unless you want how-to articles.

[Mark Singer]

When I think back to my years of schooling, some teachers, and professors just seem to make things fun. They had challenging projects, or problems that were inspiring and engaging and you immediately dove in and became engulfed and you were very excited to attend the class or work in a studio on the project. The magazines are very full of "so what projects" and there in nothing inspiring about them because they are all pretty much the same. I think FWW is aware of the problem , because you see fatal attempts to inspire....the design challenge where several furniture crafstmen designed a table interpreting the criteria...although I respect all of them the results were not exciting...
On the contrary David Marks show presented unique projects and he approached them with very unique solutions. I think David really thinks about doing different things and takes challenging projects and breaks them down into very easy proceedures...one by one. This is not to say I loved every design...I didn't . but recognizing he has a diverse audience that span everyone from begginers to advanced fine furniture crafstman...he did a remarkable job. There was something for everyone....mixed media....copper...exotic woods...dyes...potassium dichromate....ammonia fuming...ball mill shapping...hollow vessel turning..template routing of complex curved shapes,vacuum veneering,marquetry to basic joinery. He visited lumberyards and showed how to select wood... He interviewed Maloof, Art Carpenter, and Krenov....
He is just one person , why can't the magazines take on similar challenges.
Just in my little town of Laguna there are a dozen or more great crafstmen with personal approaches and styles....I have seen friends use techniques that have never been shown in FWW or other magazines. Most of these guys are self taught... many of them tell me..."Mark, if you can draw it, I can build it" and they can!
It seems that no one is digging deep enough....finding unique projects...mixed media...design...fresh approaches...things that stimulate...

By comparison , my architectural magazines always seem to surprise, fulfill and are fresh with new thought provoking projects. I don't love them all...yet it seems I will end up discussing at least one with an architect in my office...or a freind...Intriguing stuff. It seems rare that any of us mention a project in a woodworking magazine here at SMC and the answer is....they are all pretty much the same....not that exciting

[Frank Pellow]

I am very much enjoying reading the responses to this thread :) -even though I do like making boxes. :o However, no cutting boards (yet?).

I don't subscribe to any woodworking magazines. I glance at them on the shelvs and buy maybe 8 a year and those that I buy are mostly becuase they copntain some project that interests me. I do like Fine Homebuilding and buy about every second issue.

[Mark Pruitt]

I cancelled all subscriptions on speculation that Awesome Woodworking (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26109) would quickly become the king of the heap.

Come on Markus, pony up!

Andy,
The post you linked to was from an earlier date than when I joined SMC. That is just outrageously funny; made my day. Thanks.:D

[Bruce Benjamin]

There certainly is at least two schools of thought in this thread
regarding magazine content. Some buy them because they primarily
want to either copy or be inspired by featured project plans. Others
primarily buy them for how-to articles and tool instruction/reviews.
While I do sometimes appreciate reading about certain projects because
I can learn about some technique, I have never built anything I've
seen in a magazine. At best I've used some ideas in my own projects
but I really have no interest in making something that looks like
someone else's work. To each their own, though. Nothing wrong with
doing that but it's just not why I like woodworking. I do enjoy the
technique articles and tool reviews. A lot of the techniques are old
and done to death but sometimes I get a new idea or a different approach
to a problem. I've used the tool reviews numerous times and I've
probably learned more from those than anything else. I don't usually
take them at face value though since I believe that many/most are
overly biased by either advertising dollars, the tools made available
for free from the manufacturers, or by the tester's own personal
preferences. You're never going to get away from those biases I guess.
But they usually present specifications and other info that I'd otherwise
have no access to without using the tools myself. The reviews at
least give me a starting point for my research. Combine that with
DAGS and searching various woodworking forums and I've usually gotten
a fairly well rounded opinion of a tool before I buy. Now that I have
nearly all of the major tools that I want/need I don't need the tool
reviews as much as I used to. But I still come across smaller tools that
I either didn't know existed or an not familiar with. My usual magazine
purchase is from the newsstand and I only subscribe to a couple right
now. I'll bet magazine publishers hate threads like this because they
probably lose more subscriptions than they gain. Subscribers start
thinking, "yeah, you're right! I hate that about this magazine."

Bruce