Poly Hot Melt

[Per Swenson]

Hello Everyone,

Any real world opinions on this product from titebond?

I ask due to some internet rumours that the glue is great but

the applicator su...., well is not up to par.

This is one of those things I have a limited use for, but when I do need it

It has to work. Any input appreciated as always.

http://www.titebond.com/IntroPageTB.ASP?UserType=1&ProdSel=ProductLineTB.asp?prodline=80?prodcat=5

Per

[Greg Hairston]

Per,
I had the system and it now sits on a shelf. The applicator is junk. mine broke on me.
Greg

[Richard Wolf]

Per, The rumours are correct. The glue is great for fast work and repairs. I have three (3) broken guns to attest to the fact that they scuk but I was a slow learner. I do believe they now have a second generation gun which may be an improvement. The glue is also not cheap.

Richard

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Hot melt is nothing more than a plastic bead that sticks to something - but not too well.
It suffers from a couple serious flaws: (1) it establishes no real bond, (2) it's plastic.

Plastic by definition is well "plastic." It is subject to a phenomena called "Cold Flow." Cold Flow is when the material literally moves changing shape. It doesn't do it fast like water but it does do it. Some synthetic materials are less plastic than others such as Phenolic which is not a true plastic at all. Some plastic components have stiffining additives like flour and fiberglass added to make 'em hard and stiff - they break easier too. Some plastics have a very regular crystaline geometry making they hard and brittle. All of them flow.

Hot melt glue will flow quite a lot in large part because of it's very low melt point. Most olefin, propeline, merthilaculate, and polycarbonate type plastics are injection molded at somewhere between 400 - 500 Deg F with instant compressive heat in the sprue up to 600 or 700 Degs F.
The Glue gun can't quite get that hot so it uses lower melt point compounds.


When a polymer flows it can't do a good job gluing things together so it fails. Almost all modern glues are polymer glues. Titebond, Elmers' polyvinyls, Monster urethanes, Epoxy are polymers and all are subject to flow though nothing like hot melt glues.


Some folks will assert that the protien glues like hide don't flow. That is simply not true. They may flow very little but, flow they do. In fact all materials are plastic on some level. I once worked in a physics research lab. We used a laser to drill "nanometer small" holes in various materials such as hardened steel, carbide, and diamond. Under the electron microscope the holes that ought to have been nice little round things were constantly moving changing shape and not holding still. The materials were in motion all the time - all those materials. It was a real eye opener.

However Hide Glue may be your ticket. It can be mixed to set up quite fast and it's very, very strong and makes for way better glue blocks where no opportunity for clamping is available. You can get away without clamping hide glue yes you can.

[tod evans]

per, 3-m makes a product called jet-weld that flat works! you`ll tear out wood fibers breaking a glued miter joint...02 tod

[Per Swenson]

Thanks


The product I sell is akin to boat building.

Not much salt water, but copious amounts of regular water,

body fluids, alcohol, and sugar. The periods I don't make any money

is clamping time, finish curing time and call back repair.

I had planned on retiring at 40. I am 8 years behind schedual,

no end in sight and another 30 piece clamp delivery on the shop floor.

Tod, thanks for the new avenue of investigation.

Per

[Craig Coney]

Per,
The 3M poly gun works well, but does not hold up too well to drops on the floor. Check with your cabinet hardware supplier for the glue & gun

[Lopaka Garcia]

Wow that 3M Jet Weld gun costs $678 on Amazon! That's some serious cash for glue.

[Per Swenson]

Lopaka,

Maybe, maybe not.

Richard has already spent over $300 for glue guns and

if he buys glue by the case as I do, well he also has a useless

full box. There is another thread around here on woodworking

budgets. This is a thought I should add to it.

Whenever you you embark on a project, it is just as easy to make

2 or 10 or however many, then one. Don't worry some one will buy it.

I look at it this way, a tool is a extension of ones brain. Unlike a

couch, which is a extension of ones..... A weekend woodworker

should be able to subsidise his hobby by commision.

Then the tools pay for themselves as they should.

Per

[Lopaka Garcia]

Very true Per. Someday I'd like my "hobby" to pay for itself and then some. I'm already working on that as I write this. But unfortunately, my budget doesn't allow me to enjoy some of the wonderful equipment I see people talking about on here. Maybe someday though. We only have one real woodworking store here, Woodcraft, and when I go in there, I'm like a kid in a candy shop with no money for candy :mad:. But with perseverence, someday I'll have a real woodshop. But you know what they say, it's not the tools but the person using them. I have a long way to go for either one. :(

[tod evans]

Very true Per. Someday I'd like my "hobby" to pay for itself and then some. I'm already working on that as I write this. But unfortunately, my budget doesn't allow me to enjoy some of the wonderful equipment I see people talking about on here. Maybe someday though. We only have one real woodworking store here, Woodcraft, and when I go in there, I'm like a kid in a candy shop with no money for candy :mad:. But with perseverence, someday I'll have a real woodshop. But you know what they say, it's not the tools but the person using them. I have a long way to go for either one. :(

keep pluggin` lopaka it seems like just yesterday that i was runnin` base-n-case for local builders trying to get a shop off the ground( that was 20+yrs ago)
if you want to cut boards for a living persistance pays off and the beauty of the trade is that a fellow could spend his whole life trying to master all the different aspects of woodworking. there are very few jobs or hobbies you can say this about.....02 tod