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View Full Version : Soldering / Sweating copper pipe with some water in the line



Brian Parker
05-10-2006, 3:03 PM
I was watching a show a while back which made mention of ways to solder copper pipes with some water in them. They mention the age old trick of a piece of bread and another method involving a wax like capsule. This capsule is inserted into the pipe about 8-12 inches and plugs the entire inside of the pipe. When the joint is sweated and a new valve or fittings all have been installed one simple applies the heat of the torch to the area of the capsule and it melts it.

I have been searching the web high and low for these capsules and wanted to inquire if you knew what their proper name is and also if you know where to get them.

I've used the bread trick and its good and bad depending on how much work you need to do. I've seen a Jet-flex but thats a bit $$$ for me.

TIA

Doyle Alley
05-10-2006, 3:28 PM
Every time I have to do it, I just open a valve somewhere opposite where I am and use the shop vac with the hose connected to the exhaust to blow all the water out. After a minute or so of blowing and then a little heat, the pipe will be bone dry.

Keith Hall
05-10-2006, 3:40 PM
I haven't used the capsule method as I have never heard of it. However, my BIL plumber told me about the bread in the pipe years ago. I have used it successfully since. You can't pack it too tight because the water will soften it and it will flush right through. It's a quick fix if you do not have the time to vaccuum the lines or can't stop the drip...drip...drip.:)

John Shuk
05-10-2006, 3:55 PM
the BORG has them.

Tyler Howell
05-10-2006, 4:50 PM
the BORG has them.
What John said.
Bought them at the Borg but I prefer thr bread.
Make sure you pull the screens on your faucets and blow them out after.:cool:

Ben Grunow
05-10-2006, 8:41 PM
There is a long handled, expanding plug available at plumbing supply houses that you insert into the pipe and expand. You clean and flux the end of the pipe, clean and flux a ball valve and slide it over the plug. Slide the plug into the pipe, expand it (thus stopping the water drip) and slide the valve onto the pipe and sweat away. Then, with the valve closed you can complete the fix and open the valve when done. Obviously more expensive than bread unless you like cool pipe plugs and have a pail of old ball valves like I do.

Joe Mioux
05-10-2006, 10:25 PM
Hmmmm.........

I have always just stuck something in the pipe to displace the water far enough away from the intended solder joint.

Little fingers work great for 3/4" pipe.:)

Am I miss reading this thread?

Joe

Brian Parker
05-11-2006, 8:58 AM
Hmmmm.........


Am I miss reading this thread?

Joe

Joe,

Yup I've been soldering pipes since I was 10 or 11 and have done quite alot of it. Ususally its not a problem to drain the line and get teh little bit of water out of the line. On occasion non-gate valves will leak some even when turned off, which is when I use the old bread trick. If that don't hold a bagel works a little better ;) But the reason that I asked for the wax capsules is that my dad kinked a hot water heating pipe this weekend enough to break it and I had to redo it. So all of the water in the line above wanted to come down on me as it did. I wanted to buy some of these to have around as a just in case deal so I don't have to get soaked again and then have to fill the system with more water.

I'll check the BORG (HD) out after work today and check but I went to the Lowes when this happened and they didn't know what it was and I didnt see it there.

Kyle Kraft
05-11-2006, 9:12 AM
I've seen them at Menards for a few bucks a package. I think there are 2 or 3 in a pack. You can buy a lot of bread for the price of those goodies and still have a boatload left for some sammiches when the job is done!

They remind me of the "Golden Nugget" of chicken grease that used to come in the Mrs. Grass chicken noodle soup years ago.

Kyle in K'zoo

Bill Lewis
05-11-2006, 9:40 AM
They remind me of the "Golden Nugget" of chicken grease that used to come in the Mrs. Grass chicken noodle soup years ago.Well Since They are designed/marketed to go in to a potable water line they probably are food grade. If you got real hungry...

Chris Padilla
05-11-2006, 3:58 PM
My last sweating job was in my too-small crawl space and there was simply too much water in the line and not enough bread! :( I ended up just heating up a length of pipe for a while to steam/work out all the water I could and occasionally bending the pipe to work more water out. Sure took a while but these pipes were located the furthest crawl I could do under my house so I just hung there until I could sweat a decent joint. :(

Ben Grunow
05-11-2006, 10:17 PM
My post was not clear about the construction of the plug. It is about 8" long with a hinged handle that expands a rubber disk on the end when bent 90 degrees (just like a bilge plug on a small boat but with a longer handle). This handle fits through a ball valve (not a gate valve) and allows the plug to be removed through the valve after the soldering is done. Then the valve is closed and the rest of the pipe can be repaired with a short length and a coupling-drip free. THe part that is somewhat odd is that you end up with ball valve in the middle of a pipe for no apparent reason but the method is guaranteed to work every time instead of hoping for the bread to work with whatever the flow happens to be (been there, done that-the hot water drips feel great on your skin in a crawl space). Hope that explains it.

Joe Mioux
05-11-2006, 11:05 PM
Joe,

Yup I've been soldering pipes since I was 10 or 11 and have done quite alot of it. Ususally its not a problem to drain the line and get teh little bit of water out of the line. On occasion non-gate valves will leak some even when turned off, which is when I use the old bread trick. If that don't hold a bagel works a little better ;) But the reason that I asked for the wax capsules is that my dad kinked a hot water heating pipe this weekend enough to break it and I had to redo it. So all of the water in the line above wanted to come down on me as it did. I wanted to buy some of these to have around as a just in case deal so I don't have to get soaked again and then have to fill the system with more water.

I'll check the BORG (HD) out after work today and check but I went to the Lowes when this happened and they didn't know what it was and I didnt see it there.

One thing I really appreciate is that I have a dad who grew up in the depression and thus we fixed alot of our own plumbing problems at home, shops, and greenhouses.

Like you Brian, I learned to sweat pipe at a very young age. I have been in similar situations where water continued to flow, all be it just enought to keep the pipe cool enough to cause soldering problems.

I was just a bit confused from your original post, thank you for clarifying.

Joe

Brian Parker
05-12-2006, 8:18 AM
Ben I belive what you are talking about is a Jet-Flex. Those are $$$ but nice.

Brian Parker
05-16-2006, 4:12 PM
John,

Which borg were you talking about? I tried the local Lowes and HD and neither had them. I got some funny looks when I asked for them. The one guy actually tried to tell me that you put bread in the pipe to prevent them from banging, after that I was in disbelief.

Any other ideas of places that have them, even an online source would be great.

Steve Clardy
05-16-2006, 5:02 PM
John,

Which borg were you talking about? I tried the local Lowes and HD and neither had them. I got some funny looks when I asked for them. The one guy actually tried to tell me that you put bread in the pipe to prevent them from banging, after that I was in disbelief.

Any other ideas of places that have them, even an online source would be great.


Lol. Bread to keep the pipes from banging.:confused: :D
Gotta remember that one:D ;) :D :D :D

Bob Winkler
05-17-2006, 11:28 AM
This may be a good alternative:

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/waterstopperforsoldering.html

Bob

Cliff Rohrabacher
05-17-2006, 6:37 PM
I've restored several ancient homes. The damn plumbing is NEVER layed in correctly and the valves always leak. The result is that when I have to work existing lines there is always a trickle.

I have used those melting blisters as well as the flexible rof on a plug. They are great when you can get 'em in. When I can't I heat a long section of pipe upstream with a torch to steam off the water and work fast.

If you can use Acetlyne or MAPP with a boosted oxygen flow it'll happen faster.

Brian Parker
05-17-2006, 9:38 PM
Cliff where were you able to find those "melting blisters" at?

Dave Fifield
05-18-2006, 4:41 AM
I push a couple of feet of 1/4" clear plastic tubing into the end of the copper pipe and syphon out the water until it stops, then make the joint quickly. I've never had to resort to wax or bread plugs yet - I don't like the idea of the potential clogging this could lead to.

Dave F.

Dale Fulenchek
04-04-2014, 9:24 AM
Had a situation yesterday where the water would not completely cut off. Knew about the old bread plug but the leak was such that it would not block it off. Read your post about blowing the line out and got my little compressor, opened the bath tub valve and was able to get it dry enough to sweat the fitting off, blew again and got the extension on and one more time for putting the cap on.

It was an interesting dance but worked like a charm.

Thanks again.


Every time I have to do it, I just open a valve somewhere opposite where I am and use the shop vac with the hose connected to the exhaust to blow all the water out. After a minute or so of blowing and then a little heat, the pipe will be bone dry.

Bill Huber
04-04-2014, 9:52 AM
My dad was a plumber and I used to help him when I was a kid.

There are 2 ways he did it, one was to blow the line out like has been stated and the other was with dry ice.
Put the dry ice the pipe and tape it on, wait a few min. and you are ready to go.

I have seen him use the dry ice on pipes where the water was not even shut off.

Wade Lippman
04-04-2014, 7:35 PM
There is glue on the market that says it will work on wet pipes. Never had occasion to use it

Curt Harms
04-05-2014, 7:57 AM
Nice thing about Shark Bites. It doesn't matter if there's drips.

Kevin L. Pauba
04-05-2014, 9:32 AM
I've seen them at Menards for a few bucks a package. I think there are 2 or 3 in a pack. You can buy a lot of bread for the price of those goodies and still have a boatload left for some sammiches when the job is done!

They remind me of the "Golden Nugget" of chicken grease that used to come in the Mrs. Grass chicken noodle soup years ago.

Kyle in K'zoo

Now that's an idea. Plug the line with a "Golden Nugget". When you're done soldering, just heat up some of the water behind the nugget. When the nugget melts you can have your cup ready for some hot soup when you finish the job.

Brilliant idea, Kyle!