Hollowing Tool

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have been looking at hollowing tools. The ones I have been looking at are the Sorby RS2000 system, John Jordons hollowing tools and Don Pencil's blemish tools for $215 and that is for both sets the Scorpion plus the Stinger. Was wondering if anyone uses any of the above and what your thoughts are any of these systems. I have about $240 to spend according to the SWMBO.

[Raymond Overman]

I use the large John Jordan bent hollowing tool and a roll your own straight boring bar which looks remarkably like John Jordan's. I like them both.

The key to using them is cut, clear shavings, measure or you end up with a hollow form funnel. It's easy to get aggresive with either of these tools.

[Mark Cothren]

Bernie,

I bought the blem Scorpion setup. It works okay if you can keep the cutting tip on center while freehanding (which I cannot :o )...

I am now using my bars in a captive setup. Travis welded me up a D-handle and I built a backrest (copied/modified the one Dennis built for his setup). It's basically a homemade Jamieson setup.

So my opinion based on my own experience? Get a captive setup of some sort...

I am NOT knockin' the Scorpion... just saying based on my abilities and use of the tool I needed to use the bars in a captive setup.

[Brad Hart]

you can make an entire closed captured rig including ordering the best teardrop scraper on the market and make a steady rest, that will let you hollow 24" deep for less than $60.

[Pete Jordan]

you can make an entire closed captured rig including ordering the best teardrop scraper on the market and make a steady rest, that will let you hollow 24" deep for less than $60.

Hi Brad,

Could you be a little more specific?

thanx,
Pete

[Jim Becker]

John Jordan's boring bars are very, very nice. I don't like the handle, however, nor any of the other hand/arm-held setups. The good news is that the boring bars will fit into most of the captive systems...I use both Lyle Jamison's and Trent Bosch's boring bars in the Jamison system. John's bars will also work it in.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks for all the info. Brad I would like more info on that setup like Pete. Also my other problem in building things is time. I work full time (10 hr. days) and also own a clock repair and restoration shop which keeps me quite busy. I am the only clockshop in 250 mile radius. Right now I am about 40 to 50 clocks behind. So my turning time is precious. I wish I had more time to build things but just don't right now and maybe I will when I retire in 3 yrs.

Still would like to hear more if anybody has the Jordon, Sorby or Pencil systems. Thanks again.

[Brad Hart]

I used the sorby system and it was ok for a freehand hollower. My rig is much like a jamieson hollowing rig and I am working on a tutorial and pics will be available early next week. This is a simple setup and only took a few hours to build with no instructions. Now that I know how to make it it would take me longer to get the parts at home depot and check out than it does to assemble it. Here is the run down of parts

all pipe and fittings are 1/2" black iron plumbing pipe

D handle
2 - 4.5" nipple pieces
2 - 18" nipple pieces
3 - 90 degree corner fittings
1 - t fitting

screw pieces together to form rectangle. A little easier said than done as the final piece will try and unscrew at one end as you screw it into the other piece. But there is a solution. Screw the final piece in all the way at one end and then screw the pieces together and use some CA to hold the half screwed piece firmly in place. This took me more tie to figure out than anything else. Alternately instead of a t section you can drill a 2x4" to house the t section skipping the pipe fitting which will also give you a place to mount a laser later. If you go this route you will need 1 18" section and 1 24" or longer and a coupling to screw the tool into.

The tool is also 1/2" pipe with a piece of 5/8" zinc plated steel rod hammered into the end. You could take the time to sand it down so it fits in neatly and tap the pipe for set screws like we did for my firends set up (the first one I made) but I have a new 3 pound sledge that was just screaming to be used. With the bar firmly in place I drilled it for a spare ellsworth cutter I had on hand and glued it in place as I would with an ellsworth tool. With my firends tool we tapped the steel rod so he could screw 1/4" grade 8 bolts into it and easily custom grind cutters cheaply. We made his so each tool would only be 6 or 7" long after it was screwed into the pipe and he could easily make new tools. One of his tools was ground flat so he could add a cutter. For my second tool, which I am awaiting new parts for, is ground flat and I am attaching a jamieson style bit holder which give me some more flexibility in the angle I want to cut at as well as a place to use my teardrop and carbide cutters.

The second tool rest is made from scrap plywood and mdf as Lyle jamieson suggests on his website which will also give you some more insight into how best to build your own hollowing rig.

With a set up instructions this is going to be a very easy setup to make. The steady will take a little more time and but not a lot and there are a lot of plans online for that as well. We both used a set of rollerblade wheels from a pair purchased at the goodwill for a couple of bucks. The wheels are non marring and have better bearings than rollerskates usually. So with a tablesaw, jigsaw and some nuts and bolts from the hardware store you can make these pretty easily and quickly too.

[Earl Eyre]

I have the Sorby system. Learned how to use it at a workshop with Christian Burchard and just haven't seen a need to get fancier. If you are doing lots and lots, then there are better systems. The Sorby is rather basic and was one of the originals. But using the arm brace I have done 10" deep hollow forms with no problems. It's slower than some of the captive systems, but just keeps on working. An advantage, for me, is that with a straight shaft and the bent shaft, the cutting bar and the scraper you can do just about anything and everything and get a beautifully smooth finish in the process. You can use the scraper very effectively on the inside of bowls, too.
Earl

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks so much for the info. I am in Richmond, Virginia visiting the kids. I have a chance Saturday to see some Kelton Hollowers in person and use them. I have had them recommended by several on this list. So will pobably be looking at the Jordon's, Jaminson's or the Kelton's. Thanks again.

[Travis Stinson]

you can make an entire closed captured rig including ordering the best teardrop scraper on the market and make a steady rest, that will let you hollow 24" deep for less than $60.
NO WAY will you be able to do that with a piece of 5/8" rod hammered into a 1/2" pipe.:rolleyes:

[Jim Ketron]

I will have to agree with Travis on this one!
It would take at least a 1 1/2" solid boring bar to come close to doing a 24" deep hollow form without chatter.
I have a 3/4 boring bar on my homemade hollowing rig and about 9-10" is pushing the limits on it without getting a lot of chatter.

[Brad Hart]

NO WAY will you be able to do that with a piece of 5/8" rod hammered into a 1/2" pipe.:rolleyes:

Actually you can, I have been waiting for someone to bring this up. I will chock this up to an unfamiliarity with pipe on your part, but since you aren't going to believe it until I get the digicam to take pictures I'll give you the info and some links.

5/8" zinc plated pipe is 0.625" +/- .002 depending on the consistency quality

Inside diamter of 1/2" black wrought iron pipe is 0.622"

And I have a 3 pound sledge that says 0.005" of iron makes very difference to it.

http://www.gizmology.net/pipe.htm

[Brad Hart]

I will have to agree with Travis on this one!
It would take at least a 1 1/2" solid boring bar to come close to doing a 24" deep hollow form without chatter.
I have a 3/4 boring bar on my homemade hollowing rig and about 9-10" is pushing the limits on it without getting a lot of chatter.

You are right and you are wrong. A 3/4" solid piece of steel has about the limitations you are describing as does 1.5" for 24". Wrought Iron "black" Pipe on the other hand flexes a lot less than solid bar. With the strength of the pipe I can use a much shorter tool bar and simply use a much longer piece of pipe as a tool holder.

I talked with an engineer/machinist and he told me that way back in the days that 3/8" black iron pipe was often used instead of fine thread 5/8" rods to fix things because it had 3 times the strength and 1/10 the price. Assuming the same ratio hold true for larger pipe given the outside diameter of 1/2" pipe is 27/32 of an inch with roughly 20% thicker wall than 3/8" I more than sufficiently pass the capability of 1.5" solid bar. Also considdering the amount of wrought iron used for the tool the vibration is considderably less that with lighterweight steels.

I will also say that simply because a hollowing rig, lathe or any other tool in your shop has the capability to make a certain size item you are are under no obligations to make something that big simply because you can. My max depth so far has been 16" because of lathe limitation and a nice smooth piece it was. The first rig I built is being used on a 1642 and he has gone to 22" but is going to try larger when he gets suitable logs and bigger chuck but he doesn't have a scraper setup yet so we don't know the final smoothness of that But I don't doubt that it will work well based on his emails.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Well Brad sounds like a awesome rig but is about 4 times bigger than what I need. I just got back from my sisters house. Her next door neighbor has the Kelton's in 5/8" and the mini's 5/16". He has some awesome HF's. Of course the wife left the camera in the suitcase. Anyway got to play with them for a bit. You can hog wood or shear scrap. I think these are what I will probably get for now. Thanks for the pm's and for the info here. I appreciate it.

[Jim Ketron]

Brad, if you will look at my profile you will see what I do for a living!
I'm fully aware of pipe sizes!
I Don't see how you get 1/2" pipe that is under 3/4" OD and comparing it to a 1 1/2" OD solid bar from tool steel or even cold roll and being stronger:confused: Black iron pipe is a mild steel and much softer so if your comparing mild steel 1/2" pipe that is almost 3/4" od to a 1/2" mild steel solid rod then yes it is stronger but not to a solid piece of cold roll or tool steel of the same size OD!
And as you stated in your post doing a 24" deep hollowing with 1/2" pipe and a piece of 5/8" steel drove in, and get a smooth cut inside?
thats the part that I find hard to believe.
My D-bar is made from 3/4" schedule 40 black iron pipe and welded, not with screw fittings. and the boring bars are made from 3/4" cold roll. so my set up is very close to yours.

[Brad Hart]

iron pipe and welded, not with screw fittings. and the boring bars are made from 3/4" cold roll. so my set up is very close to yours.

Are you using a teardrop scraper or only a tipped cutter in it, and how fast are you running your lathe? The tipped scraper for me is a bit rough at higher speeds but that isn't the tools fault. Once I slow it way down (150 -200 rpm) and go to the scraper I get a nice smooth finish down deep.

[Jim Ketron]

Brad I use an assortment of cutters/scrapers for doing my hollowing. I usually save the scrapers for the final finishing cuts.
As far as lathe speed each piece of wood will cut different, so I run the lathe at the speed the wood and piece requires for a good cut.

[Brad Hart]

At what diameter, depth and speed is your rig flexing? I am guessing all of these things are what are making the actually differences. I turned with the first rig I built yesterday on a buddies machines and did notice a bit of tool flex at different points. It would explain why I can get 18" deep at 5" diameter at 250 rpm and not have any flex but have some flex at 9" deep and nearly18" diamter in the same piece at the same speed.