Tilting Raised Panel Sled For T.S.?

[Bruce Benjamin]

I've been planning to build a simple jig to make raised
panels on my table saw. There's really not much to what
I had in mind but I did remember that I saw an article a
couple of years ago that described how to build one. I
looked through my old back issues and came across it
in the August, 2004 issue of Woodworker's Journal. It's on
the cover with a complete build article inside.

The thing that's different about this sled than other's I've
seen is that it has a relatively complex mechanism to tilt the
workpiece in relation to the saw blade instead of tilting the
saw blade in relation to the workpiece. In other words, you
use it with the saw blade in the vertical position. It looks
like it would probably work ok but what I can't figure out is
why anyone would want to go to so much trouble to tilt
the panel when all of you have to do is tilt the saw blade.
The added hardware required to build this isn't free and the
extra labor is considerable.

Any reasons why tilting the panel is better than tilting the saw
blade? Maybe there's something I'm missing. :confused: Thanks.

Bruce

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

It's hugely easy.
Check this link out
http://www.binkyswoodworking.com/CoveMouldingTip.htm

[Bruce Benjamin]

Thanks Cliff. I've done the cove molding thing before and
while it's a little scary it worked pretty well. I'm talking
about a sled that holds the panel in a vertical position. The
one I'm probably going to build rides along/on top of the
rip fence. The one I saw in the magazine article also has
the panel in a more or less vertical position but the base
of the sled rides on the table top and up against the rip
fence. It makes a beveled raised panel instead of a cove
raised panel. Using the method you linked would also be
easy to make the cove raised panel but a cove isn't ideal
for every application. It's also pretty easy to make them
on my router table but keeping an assortment of raised
panel bits ain't cheap.

Bruce

[Lee Schierer]

Many years ago I was given a table saw with a tilt table. The blade stayed fixed and the table tilted. I can see where your jig might be and advantage on that type of saw.

I use the procedure I have outlined on my website http://home.earthlink.net/~us71na/raisedpanel.htmlto make raised panels. It works well for me and doesn't require finding a place to store another jig.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Thanks for the info, Lee. This is more like what I was planning
but I hadn't considered using the core box bit on the router
table first. One question though. When using a raised panel
router bit it leaves a nice flat edge that will slide into the grooves
of the rail and stiles. Using the TS with the blade tilted will leave
the edge at 1/4" or whatever you want but it tapers up from
there. How well does the edge of the panel slide into a groove?
it seems that it will either only slide part way in and be snug or
if it tapers down farther it will be a little loose. I guess you
have to be much more precise when sizing the length and width
of the panel to the frame since with won't be able to float
the way a router table cut panel will. If I were to use the
TS to make a cove cut raised panel the edge thickness would
be more consistent but the process is probably a little more
complicated and time consuming.

Bruce

[Dave Richards]

Here's a drawing of one I designed for someone else. It is adjustable for panel thickness and angle.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Dave, that's a pretty nice looking sled but it still doesn't
answer the question of why tilt the workpiece when you
can just tilt the blade? With a sled that used the fence
as a guide I can adjust for varying workpiece thickness
by just sliding the fence closer to or farther away from the
blade. I'm just trying to figure out why I would need to
or want to make something that's more complicated.
Rube Goldberg comes to mind with the sled in the magazine
I saw. Thanks for the info, Dave.

Bruce

[Dave Richards]

The person I designed it for didin't want to tilt the blade on their saw. I believe they wanted the ability to come back to the exact same angle setting later. By tilting the jig instead of the saw, they could leave the jig set up and cut the same angle every time.

[John Gregory]

38148I built Norm's version show here

[Jim Becker]

Dave, that's a pretty nice looking sled but it still doesn't answer the question of why tilt the workpiece when you can just tilt the blade? With a sled that used the fence as a guide I can adjust for varying workpiece thickness by just sliding the fence closer to or farther away from the blade.
In a word, stability, safety and quality of cut. Using a sled keeps the workpiece in-plane and your fingers away from the blade, whether it uses a tilting blade or a tilting sled. To just use the fence without a jig, you need to install a tall fence anyway and I don't believe a human can run the panel on the fence exactly evenly...and messing up there will affect quality of the raised look, especially at the corners. Frankly, I like such a sled to ride "on" the fence (straddled usually) or in a miter slot. Just running is along a fence manually leaves too much play and you only need to deviate "a hair" to affect the cut noticeably.

[Michael Ballent]

Dave, that's a pretty nice looking sled but it still doesn't
answer the question of why tilt the workpiece when you
can just tilt the blade? With a sled that used the fence
as a guide I can adjust for varying workpiece thickness
by just sliding the fence closer to or farther away from the
blade. I'm just trying to figure out why I would need to
or want to make something that's more complicated.
Rube Goldberg comes to mind with the sled in the magazine
I saw. Thanks for the info, Dave.

Bruce

Well if you have a Shop Smith the table tilts instead of the blade, so the jig would be handy for that... Another thing that comes to mind is that you have a right tilting TS and your fence does not lend itself to being used on the other side of the blade, like the Incra/Jointech fences and the Unifence (I may be wrong about being able to use the Unifence on the other side of the blade though, but it could be a hassle to switch it around.)

[Bruce Benjamin]

In a word, stability, safety and quality of cut. Using a sled keeps the workpiece in-plane and your fingers away from the blade, whether it uses a tilting blade or a tilting sled. To just use the fence without a jig, you need to install a tall fence anyway and I don't believe a human can run the panel on the fence exactly evenly...and messing up there will affect quality of the raised look, especially at the corners. Frankly, I like such a sled to ride "on" the fence (straddled usually) or in a miter slot. Just running is along a fence manually leaves too much play and you only need to deviate "a hair" to affect the cut noticeably.

I agree that just trying to hold a panel up against a a fence isn't
really the way to go but I never said that was the way to go. I've
mentioned several times about using a jig that rides on the fence to
hold the panel. Even in the post you were responding to. My
fence is a Biesmeyer clone on a General International saw and it
easily lends itself to having a sled that sort of straddles the fence.
This sort of sled would be very stable I would think.

Bruce

[Bruce Benjamin]

[quote=John GregoryI built Norm's version show here[/quote]

John, does that mount in some way to the fence or does it
just ride against the face? At least from the view shown that
is about what I was thinking. Thanks for the photo.

Bruce

[Keith Outten]

Bruce,

Here is my personel take on the subject.

Using the right side of the table saw when you have a right tilting blade can be very dangerous when using the fence and the sawblade is at an angle. The danger of a kickback increases significantly when you trap a piece of material between the blade and fence, if the material gets out of line even a small amount then a kickback is bound to happen simply because the blade is tilted at an angle and is over the top of your material. When your material is trapped the need to maintain a perfect alignment is critical. It is also important to make sure your material is perfectly flat when using the above techique, if you must press down on the stock to keep it flat to the table saw surface and at any time you cannot maintain the downward force the material will rise into a spinning sawblade that is over the top of the stock.

This is one of the reasons that people who own right tilt saws love sliders. A slider allows you to machine at an angle on the left side of the sawblade and doesn't trap the material under a spinning sawblade.

The jigs that are designed to be used with the sawblade at 90 degrees eliminate the trap and reduce the odds of a kickback.

My 2cents...

.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Hi Keith, I certainly agree about the right tilt and kickback
thing. I have a left tilt saw but if I had a right tilt I could
just reverse the setup and put the fence on the left side
of the blade. As long as the cut-off piece isn't trapped
under the blade and between the fence I don't see much
of a danger. And the blade isn't really at to much of an
angle. My original point was that to me, tilting the
workpiece instead of the saw blade is just a lot of extra
work for nothing from what I can see. I was asking if there
was any advantage that I was missing and so far, yours
is the best I've heard. I do appreciate the replies though
and I guess I'm just trying to cover my bases in case I
was having brain fade. To each their own but I prefer to
get the job done as simply as possible. I guess I subscribe
to the K.I.S.S. principal. But then again, I could just be
lazy...;)

Bruce

[Jamie Buxton]

Bruce --
Here's a teensy argument for tilting the panel...
If you keep the workpiece vertical, gravity is trying to tip the panel over on to the blade. If you tilt the panel, gravity holds the panel on to the face of the sled.

[Bruce Wrenn]

American Woodworker, December 1998, Ian Kirby shows how to make a sled to do raised panels. It is a fixed angle sled. I would much rather have my panel clamped to a sled that is tilted, than trying to balance a panel on edge. Plus if you need to make another panel later, you have preset jig to do work. Sled is much easier when cutting end grain.

[Bruce Benjamin]

American Woodworker, December 1998, Ian Kirby shows how to make a sled to do raised panels. It is a fixed angle sled. I would much rather have my panel clamped to a sled that is tilted, than trying to balance a panel on edge. Plus if you need to make another panel later, you have preset jig to do work. Sled is much easier when cutting end grain.

I never said anything about balancing anything on edge.
I'm talking about using a vertical sled that slides along/over the fence
and the panel is then clamped to this sled. If I want to duplicate the
angle I'd just put the saw blade angle indicator back to the same
spot. The pic above that shows Norm's sled is similar to what I had
in mind. I think a fixed angle sled would work fine but it just seems
more complicated than a straight up and down sled combined with
the blade tilted. But to each their own. Time to gather up my scraps
and throw that sucker together. I love saving up various scraps for
a while and finally finding a use for them. :) Gotta make the cove
cut raised panel too.

Bruce