Quality of Crown tools

[Chuck Saunders]

I picked up a pair of marking knives at Woodcraft the other day made by Crown. They didn't seem very sharp, after putting a good edge on I went to trim a rough spot on my fingernail and put a good nick in the blade. The point blunted almost instantly. Is this a knife that missed the heat treatment leg of the tour or am I expecting a higher quality than this manufacturer is known for?
Not bagging on anyone, just learning the ropes
Thanks
Chuck

[Alan DuBoff]

Chuck,

Sometimes edge tools require that you sharpen them a couple or three times to get down to the heat treated steel, and in this case it just might be the case that it needs to be sharpened a couple times. Are these drawknives?

DISCLAIMER: I'm no expert on sharpening, and why I own a Lap-Sharp! ;) But I've seen folks mention this with other new edge tools before.

[Chuck Saunders]

Thanks Alan, maybe that is what is happening. Not draw knives but marking knives, good for making a finer line than a pencil. Should be harder than a pencil and keep its' point linger too.
Thanks
Chuck

[Dave Anderson NH]

I had the same problem a number of years ago when I bought the Crown knives. They are not hard enough and the steel nicks and/or bends over. My experiences with Crown tools generally has not been a positive one. I had to return a bevel gage some years ago because the drilled hole for the steel bevel was off center and the gage would only stand up on the wooden part in one direction since the metal blade couldn't be completely retracted into the body. My Crown skew chisels are barely acceptable and won't hold an edge very long. They seem to spend more effort and time on polishing and other cosmetics than on making a usable tool.

[Mike Henderson]

Can't comment on Crown but I have a striking knife that I bought from Lee Valley and have been very satisfied with it.

Mike

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Chuck,

Sometimes edge tools require that you sharpen them a couple or three times to get down to the heat treated steel,

Huh? You have encountered this? I'm wondering what sort of heat treat process would leave un hardened steel around the edge of a blade. I'm stumped.

UNLESS the blade maker used a torch to temper the blade and overheated the fine edge - logically a very, very easy thing to do. Almost impossible not to do it actually.

Maybe that's it. Would Woodcraft sell a blade that is hand tempered?? Aside from the failings of the process it's going to be expensive.


Oil stock goes from the oven to the fish oil then the tempering oven. All of the metal that got quenched is hardened and tempered.

A2 and A6 go from the oven to a bench where they air quench then the temper oven and all of it's hard.

S (chisel) stocks go from the oven to the brine then the temper oven and all that is quenched hard.

HSS is hardened in a diamond block or a reducing atmosphere and qenched in air then tempered and it's all hard.

Even surface hardening compound will yield hard metal wherever the metal is both hot and covered with the carbonizing compound.

I can't imagine a process other than hand tempering that would do that.

[Brent Smith]

I've come across a number of edge tools where this is true. For whatever reason, I've found that it takes 2-3 sharpenings before getting a good edge. This has been true on a number of Japanese chisels and on my set of LN chisels. I've wondered if the early reports of LN chisels not holding an edge could have been solved by a few sharpenings.

Dave, I also have a set of Crown skews, had to take them down about 3/8' before getting a servicable edge. Servicable, not great.

Brent

[Doug Ketellapper]

I don't believe the issue is the hardening process, but the process when the edge is ground after hardening: the thin edge gets hot and loses it's temper. At least that's the theory that I've heard bandied about, and I have no idea if it's true or not. I hope that someone who knows more about this will chime in. I've never come across this problem myself that I am aware of.

[Chuck Saunders]

I had a gentleman who owned a carving supply store tell me something like this. He said when he got in a batch of chisels he would grind off the first 1/8" or so and resharpen to remove the burned (temper gone) then polished portion of the steel.
Chuck

[Richard Mullin]

I have the same pair of knives. I measured the hardness at 39 Rockwell C. Very soft!

[Chuck Saunders]

I have the same pair of knives. I measured the hardness at 39 Rockwell C. Very soft!

Well, at least I when I paid the tuition on this lesson, I got it on sale. I'll just make my own.
Chuck

[Alan DuBoff]

I don't believe the issue is the hardening process, but the process when the edge is ground after hardening: the thin edge gets hot and loses it's temper. At least that's the theory that I've heard bandied about, and I have no idea if it's true or not. I hope that someone who knows more about this will chime in. I've never come across this problem myself that I am aware of.This is exactly my understanding, that the edge becomes soft when they grind/sharpen it due to heat, and once you get past that steel, the steel underneath is tempered and hard.

If this was the case with LN chisels, maybe those are sharpened by machine at the factory.

[Richard Mullin]

Not in the case of my knives! I measured the hardness 1/2 - 3/4" back from the cutting edge. They were both soft, and very close in hardness (or lack there of in this case) to each other. Maybe the steel is hard under the wood...