Back to DNA......

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

..........
Anhydrous Ethanol, is this the same thing as DNA?

It says "(C2H6O) 99.5vol%"

$13 for a pint :eek:

:confused:

[Chuck Saunders]

Sounds like clean ethanol that is not watered down (anhydrous). It would work fine. doesn't look too cheap though.
Chuck

[Henry C. Gernhardt, III]

Wow! You got anhydrous ethanol? Cool! Great for frat parties or wax stripping---your choice!

Seriously---DNA, or denatured alcohol, is ethanol (grain alcohol) which has been cut with (usually) isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) or (not usually) methanol (wood alcohol). Isopropanol has a lower vapor pressure than methanol, and so is more likely to be found on the drugstore counter.

Also: Anhydrous ethanol will not remain that way for long. It _WILL_ absorb moisture from the surrounding air, thus resulting in some water mixed in. Remember, ethanol and water are, in fact, miscible (cf: whiskey, vodka, or other distilled spirits).

IMHO, skip the anhydrous ethanol and go for the DNA. DNA is less volatile (evaporates less quickly, not explodes less readily) than anhydrous ethanol, and will absorb less moisture from the atmosphere.

Hope it helps,

Henry C. Gernhardt, III

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Sure it helps, but you see the problem I'm having, here in Japan, is that I walk into the drugstore/home centre/paint store and ask for "DNA" they say "huh?" if I ask for "Denatured Alcohol" they say "huh?" so I'm trying to find out what the frick they call DNA in Japanese.... Dunno :confused:

Tim W sent me a note, and that helped, but I'm still fishing.

What percent of DNA is water that you guys use?

Cheers!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

OK, look at this page.........

Japanese page Translated (http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www.kenko.com/product/seibun/sei_831083.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E7%2584%25A1%25E6%25B0%25B4%25E3%2 582%25A8%25E3%2582%25BF%25E3%2583%258E%25E3%2583%2 5BC%25E3%2583%25AB%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DGGGL, GGGL:2005-09,GGGL:en) - medical stuff, various flavours and strengths.

Some of these say "76.9-81.4vol%" is that stuff strong enough?

Cheers!

[Kent Fitzgerald]

I'm trying to find out what the frick they call DNA in Japanese.... Dunno :confused:

It may not exist there. The reason alcohol is denatured is to render it unfit for consumption, so it can be sold free of liquor taxes. I would assume alcohol and tax laws are different in Japan, so there may be no commercial market for denatured. Anyway, I would think anything that's >99% ethanol should work.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Oh, I know it exists, as I can buy Shellac flakes, they must have it, the problem is you walk into a store and say "I want to buy this stuff, it is like alcohol, but you can't drink it, I want to soak wooden bowls in it to get rid of th water from the wood.........." and you get this blank stair, like you just asked them to chop off their own hand and lend it to you.....

SO often here, they just refuse to think outside the box.

It is frustrating to be honest.:mad:

[John Hart]

Hey Stu...I got into our vendor database and found some chemical companies in your area
http://www.sugai-chem.co.jp 81662510631
http://www.funakoshi.co.jp 8132932352
BIOLINKS K.K. 81354436891
KAWAKEN FINE CHEMICALS CO. 81336639521

You could give them a call and see if they know where you can get some alcohol. Even pure isoprophyl is pretty good stuff for drying. (not the watered down drugstore stuff). Even if these companies don't sell it, they would know where to buy it. We get ours for 89 cents a gallon.

[Cecil Arnold]

Stu, what do they use with shellac flakes? That's what you want.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks guys, I'll get this figured...................eventually! :rolleyes:

[Jim Dunn]

Stu, I think chopping off hands in japan is not all that uncommon. Course I don't know what you'd do with an extra hand-----hmmmm let me think about that last statement:)

[Tim Wirtz]

Stu, check your e-mail. I sent you a name and website of a company that manufactures and sells it. I also sent you the japanese names for that type of alcohol. My wife said you should be able to go to any paint store and order it from them. Good luck.

Tim

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Tim, you're the man!

That looks like it will fit the bill :D

Got to love this place, the depth of talent, and knowledge is unreal!

Cheers!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

So, upon further research, the one I think I'll buy is this one.

<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="4" height="40%" width="494"> <tbody><tr><td height="19" width="206">Ethyl Alcohol
</td> <td height="19" width="108"> ８８．４０％</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="17" width="206"> Ｉ　Ｐ　Ａ</td> <td height="17" width="108"> １０．４９％</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="17" width="206"> Ｍ　Ｅ　Ｋ</td> <td height="17" width="108"> 　１．１１％</td></tr></tbody> </table>

Not sure what IPA and MEK are, but this makes this stuff 99% NOT water :D

They have pint bottles, 4.8 US gallon cans, and 42 US Gallon drums....:eek:

I think the 4.8 Gallon can will do.

Hope it don't break the bank!

Cheers!

[John Hart]

IPA is isoprophyl alcohol. MEK is MethylEthylKetone. I don't know what the MEK does. It'll probably grow hair on your knuckles or something.;)

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Cool, so this is the stuff I want, right?

Cheers!

[John Hart]

Oh sure Stu. It has all the stuff that'll suck the water right out of the wood.;)

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Copasetic!

[Don Baer]

Stu,
Be very careful when using this stuff. The MEK is very volutile. The ignition temp is 16 degrees F. It is also harmful if inhaled. NIOSH has set the PEL (Permissible Exposre limit) at 200 PPM so make sure you have very good ventalation and keep it covered when not actualy using it.

[Tim Wirtz]

Stu, I think you'd probably be OK with a slightly lower alcohol percent and wouldn't run into the volatility and health risks. I would hate to hear of a basement explosion in Tokyo.:eek: How would the firefighters get through that little opening????

(off topic: have you noticed that Americans don't have a decent ending to their notes/letters? Canadians and English use "Cheers". All I can think of is "later, dude!" and that just doesn't cut it. "sincerely" is too formal.., I will use "Cheers" I always wanted to be Canadian anyway:) )

Cheers,

Tim

[John Hart]

....
(off topic: have you noticed that Americans don't have a decent ending to their notes/letters? Canadians and English use "Cheers". All I can think of is "later, dude!" and that just doesn't cut it. "sincerely" is too formal.., I will use "Cheers" I always wanted to be Canadian anyway:) )

Cheers,

Tim

I prefer "Laters"

It's short-n-sweet and has absolutely no meaning. Sorta like me!!!:)

Laters!
John

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks for the info guys, there is a big list of things available, so I'll be able to pick one that is good.

Can some one tell me what the DNA you guys are using is made up of?

Cheers!

[Chuck Saunders]

Charcoal filtered ethanol, you laugh, it will absorb all of the water in my glass.
Cheers
Chuck

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

OK, the good news is, I can buy this stuff from the company, they don't have any stupid laws or special licences to buy the stuff! :D

Now, what I need to know from the collective brain trust here is if this stuff looks OK.....

<table border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="3" height="40%" width="522"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="3" height="60" width="508">
９５％
変性アルコール</td> </tr> <tr> <td rowspan="5" height="152" width="146"> http://www.imazu-chemical.co.jp/img047.jpg</td> <td height="16" width="204"> エチルアルコール</td> <td height="16" width="140"> 　 　８９．８４％</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="16" width="204"> メタノール</td> <td height="16" width="140"> 　 　４．６７％ </td> </tr> <tr> <td height="16" width="204"> 水 分</td> <td height="16" width="140"> 　　　 ５．４９％</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="16" width="204"> ビトレックス</td> <td height="16" width="140"> １０ppm</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="52" width="353"> １６０ｋｇ ドラム缶
１４ｋｇ 缶
５００ｍｌ 瓶（２０本入カートン）</td></tr></tbody> </table>

What do you mean you can't read that....?

OK

<table border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="3" height="40%" width="522"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="3" height="60" width="508">
９５％
Denaturated Alcohol</td> </tr> <tr> <td rowspan="5" height="152" width="146"> http://www.imazu-chemical.co.jp/img047.jpg</td> <td height="16" width="204"> Ethyl Alcohol
</td> <td height="16" width="140"> 　 　８９．８４％</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="16" width="204"> Methanol</td> <td height="16" width="140"> 　 　４．６７％ </td> </tr> <tr> <td height="16" width="204"> Water</td> <td height="16" width="140"> 　　　 ５．４９％</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="16" width="204"> Vitrex (makes it taste bad)</td> <td height="16" width="140"> １０ppm</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="52" width="353"> １６０ｋｇ Drum
１４ｋｇ Can
５００ｍｌ bottles （２０ to a case）</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[Tim Wirtz]

For mixing with shellac flakes, I should think that would be sufficient.

So, what's the going rate for the 14 kg can? Can't see much sense in buying a case of the 500 ml bottles.

Tim

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

For mixing with shellac flakes, I should think that would be sufficient.

So, what's the going rate for the 14 kg can? Can't see much sense in buying a case of the 500 ml bottles.

Tim

For drying bowls too I hope....

For the 14 Kg can, which is 18 litres, which is 4.8 US Gallons they want 6,300 yen, with tax.

That is about $57.50 US.

If I bought the Drugstore stuff it would have cost me $228.40 :eek:

I'll send the money and I hope to pick it up on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Ya!!

Thanks again for your help Tim!! :D

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

as an added bonus, my wife was reading the fax they sent with the bank transfer info etc, and for that $57.50 US, I also get it delivered right to my door :D

You know, I think I talked to at least 20 or even 30 people about this stuff, and every single one of them told me "Nope, can't get that stuff here" but I kept at it, and with Tim's help I got it, at a reasonable price, and without even having to drive to get it.

I think, just maybe I won this round!! ;) :D

[John Hart]

...I think, just maybe I won this round!! ;) :D

Methinks you are right Stu. Sounds like you got the same price as we are paying in the states. Maybe a little cheaper. You win the day!:)

[Jim VanBramer]

Me thinks you won this one too, but me also thinks with the way you're cranking out those roughed out bowls you should have gone for the drum!!!:D :D :D
Jim

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

OK it came today!

the MILFH is kind of wondering what the heck I need that for.... :rolleyes:

I can't wait to get over to the Dungeon and start Soaking! :D

Yep, 18L of unobtanium!! :cool:

[Bill White]

We used it in the refinishing shop to degrease metal objects. Its pretty powerful stuff, but not as tuff as the successor-trichlorethylene. Now that was something. Of course ther was no OSHA, etc. in those days. Benzene, caustic soda, mek, tce, acetone....No wonder my hair is gone.
On the other hand, maybe my mind is following my hair. Enough of this.
Bill

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

We used it in the refinishing shop to degrease metal objects. Its pretty powerful stuff, but not as tuff as the successor-trichlorethylene. Now that was something. Of course ther was no OSHA, etc. in those days. Benzene, caustic soda, mek, tce, acetone....No wonder my hair is gone.
On the other hand, maybe my mind is following my hair. Enough of this.
Bill
One reason why I did not get the stuff with that MEK in it.... :eek:

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

OK, I got the DNA, and I put all my bowls in one 5 gallon bucket and then filled it up, stirring the bowls to get rid of any air pockets, let them sit for just over 24 hour.....

Here they are after 24 hours, the DNA is a little bit yellow.
38328


38329
Now I've taken them all out of the DNA, and let them sit on the table for a while, drying off a bit.


38330
Then I wrapped them up in paper, cutting out the tops.

Now I got to wait 10 days!

Cheers!

[David Fried]

Glad you finally found the stuff. I soaked a bowl the other night and noticed that my DNA has also aquired a yellowish tint. Nice to know it's not just me.