Reverse?

[Steve Ash]

A question for you guys....while restoring the Oliver I wanted to find a way to put a reverse into it for sanding purposes. Seems that it will be a high dollar operation to do this. Now this may be another dumb question, but....can't I take the project off the spindle and put it on the outboard spindle for sanding? In my mind it seems that it would be spinning in the opposite direction and then I'd not need to figure out how to reverse the motor. Am I missing something? Is it really not that big a deal to sand in reverse?

[tod evans]

steve, i`ve never used a lathe that spins backwards....just worked through the grits....02 tod

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Never thought of that Steve, I don't see why you couldn't do just that........... :confused:

But what do I know, my old C-man lathe don't have a reverse.........:(

[Steve Ash]

steve, i`ve never used a lathe that spins backwards....just worked through the grits....02 tod

Grits....that's a southern food isn't it? :D

Maybe I'm over analyzing the need for it.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Steve..........having lived in the deep South for a number of years I can tell you first hand......You can never over analyze the need for grits!:D

[tod evans]

this `ol boy don`t do grits or chitlins!

[Steve Ash]

Well I'm about as northern as you can get having lived in Michigans Upper Peninsula for 22 years, but I always get grits everytime I can with lots of butter and pepper.

[Andy Hoyt]

Steve - Sanding throgh the grits in the manner described will go better if you include some pone, black eyed peas, and mint julep to the process.

Sure, you can move it outboard and sand. But unless the spindle and chuck/faceplate have a set screw (or some other mechasnism) to lock the two together, you'll go suborbital pretty quick as the chuck/faceplate unscrews off the spindle.

Sanding in the opposite direction often does help, so I'm glad to see you're thinking about this. Another consideration is time. The process of moving from inboard to outbard could likely become a pain and take longer than the actual sanding part.

[Tom Jones III]

Back up a minute here, no pun intended. Why do you need to reverse to sand? Does your sandpaper say only to use it clockwise?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I spent 6 years in the deep South......3 things I never did take a liking to.....grits, chitlins or boiled okra! I can tell you a number of cooks tried to change my ways......

[Steve Ash]

Back up a minute here, no pun intended. Why do you need to reverse to sand? Does your sandpaper say only to use it clockwise?

Apparently it spins the dust away from you....I'm new at this I'm sure someone that is a seasoned turner has a better answer.

I figured if I'm restoring and modifying for long term it was something I should look into while I'm in the process.

[Andy Hoyt]

..... Why do you need to reverse to sand? ...... So you can "manage" unruly grain.

[Pete Jordan]

I may be wrong but I think you just have to put an R on your Hurst shifter. ;)

[Steve Ash]

I may be wrong but I think you just have to put an R on your Hurst shifter. ;)

Got it....:D

[Joe Fisher]

Back up a minute here, no pun intended. Why do you need to reverse to sand? Does your sandpaper say only to use it clockwise?
On some woods, sanding in one direction will cause the fibers to get fuzzy, and lay down, such that they won't get cut by the next grit of sandpaper. Reversing the lathe causes those fibers to get lifted and cut by the next grit of sandpaper.

Kinda like shaving against the grain on your face after shaving with the grain to get rid of the heavy stubble. You get a smoother cut that way.

-Joe

[Rich Stewart]

I'm no expert on these things but I think the idea behind reverse sanding is that when sanding one direction some of the wood fibers get bent in that direction. Reverse sanding then cuts them off making for a smoother surface. I'm not sure how important it is. I always turn my stuff backwards by hand holding the sandpaper on the piece. I think it would help but don't know if it's absolutely necessary.

[Glenn Hodges]

Joe beat me to it, and he hit the nail on the head with the reason for reverse sanding. I think it would be much less expensive to walk around on the other side of the lathe to do your sanding when you want to reverse sand rather than spend a pile of money a show dog couldn't jump over for a new motor on an old lathe. I reverse sand each of my bowls, I was taught to reverse sand by an instructor a long long time ago in a far off galaxy. I also use an air gun to blow off the residue, not to get sidetracked about grits again, of the previous sanding pad before I start with a new level of sanding pad. Now this is from one grit eating son of a gun. Living in a state where we eat gritts 3 times a day, sometimes.

[Andy Hoyt]

Ummmm, Glenn. The bowl is still spinning in the same direction and the sandpaper is still contacting the bowl in the same manner. The only thing that changed is where your feet are.

[Joe Fisher]

Joe beat me to it...I also use an air gun to blow off the residue, not to get sidetracked about grits again, of the previous sanding pad before I start with a new level of sanding pad.
I'm speedy :)

The air gun part is something that immensely helped my sanding, especially inside bowls and boxes. I used to get these lines that would not sand out, no matter how many times I ran through the grits. Turned out there were 2 problems:

1. Generating too much heat with the later grits, thereby permanently burnishing in the scratches from the previous grit.
2. Leaving grit from coarser paper on the wood. This loose grit gets picked up by the next finer paper/pad you use, and leaves wicked scratches.

HTH,

-Joe

[Bart Leetch]

If you put something on the outboard spindle it will still turn toward you. I turn on both the inboard & outboard of my old Delta double duty lathe & always have to set the tool rest toward the front of the lathe. Make or purchase an air scrubber & put it toward the back side of the lathe. I have one I built it is hung on the wall behind my lathe it helps quite a bit. I am thinking of taking my Jet mini outside to turn as the weather gets better & putting a fan so that it blows the dust away from me as I sand. The box with the turning tools are on is the air scrubber.

[Bill Grumbine]

Steve, I just tell people to stand on the other side of the lathe if they want reverse! Once they figure it out, then we get down to the real issue. As Joe mentions, sometimes the grain just doesn't want to sand. But, this can be cured with a power drill and the lathe turned off, which is a much less expensive proposition over adding a VFD, or even a DC drive with reverse.

Having written all that, I use reverse frequently, but when I don't have it, I don't use it, and I still manage to get by.

Bill

[Bill Grumbine]

If you put something on the outboard spindle it will still turn toward you.

That's true Bart, but since the piece has been flipped about 180 degrees, the surface will be moving in the opposite direction.

Bill

[Bart Leetch]

That's true Bart, but since the piece has been flipped about 180 degrees, the surface will be moving in the opposite direction.

Bill


Bill

I'm glad there are smarter people than me in this world, otherwise I wouldn't learn anything. I didn't consider that Steve would change from turning over the bed to turning outboard just to sand. :eek: :D

[Jim Becker]

If you really want a reverse on the machine...long term best way is to put a VFD-controlled 3-phase motor on it. Otherwise, you'd need to have a motor on it that is actually reversible and rig up a switch that would handle flipping around the appropriate connections. Only some induction motors are reversible, however. And as Bill states, you can just reverse the direction of your power-sanding solution. My Stubby will reverse as did my OneWay prior to it, but I almost never used that function. You also need to be careful that you don't "unscrew" your chuck when running in reverse... ;)

[Rich Stewart]

Just turn the plug upsidedown. lol

[Joe Fisher]

But, this can be cured with a power drill and the lathe turned off
QFT. Getting a cheapo ($40 Overstock.com) angle drill and a 2" velcro sanding pad is the best thing that ever happened to the inside of my bowls :) I like it so much, I'm considering buying a nicer drill soon.

-Joe

[Jeff Horton]

Back on subject. If it is single phase motor forget it. No way easy way unless it was wired for it.

If it is 3 phase a VFD will take care of it. I did that one mine. Pricey but sweet set up.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

I spent 6 years in the deep South......3 things I never did take a liking to.....grits, chitlins or boiled okra! I can tell you a number of cooks tried to change my ways......

Sounds like you had some Northern cooks there in the deep South. in our part of the country it's a "SIN" to boil okra! In Texas and Oklahoma we survive on Fried Okra and Catfish throw in some grits mornin noon and evenin and thats all we need! Maybe some Fried Chicken and Mashed Taters and white chicken gravy. Umm Ummm!

[Brad Hart]

Back on subject. If it is single phase motor forget it. No way easy way unless it was wired for it.

If it is 3 phase a VFD will take care of it. I did that one mine. Pricey but sweet set up.

You can alternately go with a cheaper single phase model. There is guy selling 1.5 hp reversible vfd setup (motor and controller ready to mount plug and turn) on ebay for $300. I have seen the setup iun a friends shop and it works quite well

Alternately I am with Bill on this the cheap solution is a reversible drill with sanding pads as you usually only need to work this in small areas.

[Steve Ash]

Alternately I am with Bill on this the cheap solution is a reversible drill with sanding pads as you usually only need to work this in small areas.

And I already have several drills with a reverse on them.....problem solved. Always nice to ask at the Creek and get everyones ideas about things .....I've never had chitlins or okra :confused:

[Jim DeLaney]

this `ol boy don`t do grits or chitlins!

Grit? Yeah, good stuff! Chitlins? Not unless I've cleaned them myself!

[Jeff Horton]

You can alternately go with a cheaper single phase model. There is guy selling 1.5 hp reversible vfd setup (motor and controller ready to mount plug and turn) on ebay for $300.

If this is the same guy I am thinking of he is using DC motors, not AC. I have one set up on DC and yes it is a slick setup too.

[Curt Fuller]

Steve, as I've said before, I don't know diddly squat about electricity but if I remember right the #1 and #8 wires from the motor go through a switch on my Oliver and flipping the switch reverses the direction. My motor isn't original, it's a 220v single phase 1.5hp and I don't know if that makes any difference. But you mentioned that your son was an electrician and that #1 and #8 wire might mean something to either you or him.
The guy that sold me my lathe is out of town so I can't ask him but I'm pretty sure it was the #1 and #8 wires. It also has to be stopped when you flip the switch.

Whether you reverse it or use the ouboard end of the spindle what Andy said about locking down the chuck/faceplate applies. My Oliver has a hand wheel on the outboard side and I have an indexing wheel that came with it but I've never used. That wheel is very handy.


Picture of switch, remote start/stop switch,

[Curt Fuller]

Also, here's a web site that will tell you the approximate original manufacture date for your Oliver lathe.
http://www.olivermachinery.com/welcome.html