Back to basics " How to purchase saw blades"

[Nick Clayton]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a write-up or article that goes into blade design (circular)? It may just be the scientist over-thinking everything or the myriad of choices, but I'm starting to wonder what really goes into the design and makes a blade outstanding. I poked around doing searches and everyone seems to glow about their Forrest, Freud, Amana, Ridge and CMT blades so no doubt they have a decent product, but why? Why are their gullet design, tooth pitch, tooth design, tooth material, blade material, and blade trueness any different than the other with the same tooth count? Are there other manufacturers I'm missing? Maybe Infinity, HO Schumacher & Son? Never really hear anything about them. How about coatings; to Teflon or not to Teflon? Kerf; do you like yours on a diet?

I would like to begin to 'step my game up' and build my purpose duty blade collection and move away from the red blades I've purchased from the Borg (though they performed admirably). The problem is 1)there are a lot of manufacturers to choose from 2) I don't want to spend $$-$$$ on a piece of garbage that the red blade will perform as well as 3) I believe I might be starting to over think this a little bit.

Anyway, thanks for your help. I’m hoping this generates some good conversation amongst everyone and not just I "like this-I like that". I would really like to hear you tell me the virtues of your blade and what sets it apart.

Enjoy the day!!!<O:p
Nick<O:p

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I'm sure there are articles a-plenty. Ive not read one.
I find that you get what you pay for, The grade of carbide matters a lot. The geomerty of the teeth is also important and can require a larger motor to run if you trade cutting speed for one tha leaves no tool marks.
I don't like thin blades. The idea is cool but I prefer the stability if a thicker blade.
I like positive rake non ferrous metalsblades with 80 - 100 teeth. Takes more motor to push 'em but they cut very very cleanly.

[tod evans]

nick, in my opinion the body of the blade, or the plate is just as important as the tooth/gullet design. i`m not a fan of thin-kerf blades as i`ve found them to flex in use, that said a blade suited to your work is going to provide you with good service. the "combo" blades must sacrifice something in order to claim servicability in a variety of situations so if you`re stepping up to "good" blades avoid them. every manufacturer makes dedicated rip and crosscut blades and most make blades suited for melimine. like cliff i`ve had good luck using nonferrous metal blades for crosscutting although the ones i use are a 5deg neg rake. i`d suggest putting together a list of the materials you work with and the equipment you intend to spin the blades with and phone cg schmidt and ask their advice, then call ammana. i think you`ll find the recomendations will be very similiar as to blade configuration then you`ll need to pick a manufacturer and vendor and give her a whirl. whatever brand you choose if you base your choices on the voices of experience you should be pleased with the cut and life of the tool.......02 tod

[Dave Falkenstein]

Here's one resource that is not very detailed, but is a good introduction:

http://www.freudtools.com/woodworkers/bits_blades/bits_blds.shtml

[Jim Becker]

It's easy to get complicated with blade selection and blade "collections". My point of view is that one should buy a really good general purpose blade, such as the Forrest WW-II or the Freud F-410 or other similar blades and use that for most of your work outside of heavy ripping of thick material. For that, choose a quality ripping blade with the same kerf width to avoid rip fence adjustments. If you are a production shop, it makes sense to buy "task specific" blades, but for the majority of us who do personal work, a great GP blade is the way to go. The cut great, stay sharp longer and the abundance of carbide allows for more re-sharpenings over time. In effect, they actually cost less over time. IMHO. Take it for what it is worth.

Oh, and most saws do NOT need a thin kerf blade. A "standard kerf" (nominally 1/8") is physically more stable and will not bog down with appropriate feed rate on most saws.

[Matt Meiser]

PM Creeker Keith July. He just gave a presentation on this to our local woodworking club.

[Tim Solley]

I just read a decent high level article on Rockler last week.

Tim

[Jim Benante]

I have a question along the lines of this thread. I have started to see titanium blades around and was wondering:

How do the titanium coated blades comapre to the carbide tipped?

Is there any reason to or not to consider them when replacing an old blade?

[Tim Burke]

DeWalt has some good beginner's articles on their website. Here's one specific to saw blades http://www.dewalt.com/us/articles/article.asp?Site=woodworking&ID=353

Tim

[Charles McCracken]

Jim,

Two different ways titanium is used with blades. We add titanium to our carbide blends to make them more resistant to chemicals in the wood. TiN coating on the blade can extend the life of carbide but if applied after the blade or cutter is sharpened it will make the cutting edge less keen. When the blade is resharpened the effect of increasing life will be gone. On a blade where the coating is applied before sharpening (or on the previously mentioned blade after resharpening) it performs similarly to PTFE coating.

[scott spencer]

Hi Nick - American Woodworker's Issue #118 (Nov 2005) had what I thought was a really informative article about blade technology and applications. PM me if you don't have any luck getting a copy...:)

I'm with Jim Becker on preferring a highend general purpose blade. They perform really well on a wide range of materials and types of cuts. I rarely, and I mean almost never, need a better cut than a blade comparable to the Forrest WWII provides. The GP blades do give up some efficiency and feedrate on really thick stock compared to a dedicated ripper, but they also cut cleaner in the process. They also don't cut quite as cleanly as a dedicated crosscut blade like an F810 or Forrest Duraline, but considering the enormous advantage in the range they'll operate in, they really don't give up much in cut quality. It's one big balancing act with the technical parameters of the blades....every design has pros and cons for varying applications and circumstances....hook angle, carbide quality, grinds, sharpening, tooth count, body balance, etc., all come into play. I think I'm just scratching the surface of understanding it all, but I have had the chance to try lots of good blades and I do know what's worked well for me on my saws.

Quite simply, I just find it alot easier to keep the WWII on the arbor most of the time....I've also had similar results with some better Freud and Ridge Carbide blades too. I guess I'm pretty unorganized when I work, so I'm constantly ripping a cut or two, then switching to a crosscut or two....it'd drive me nuts to have to change blades for those operations. I do switch to a 24T FTG ripper for bulk ripping or thick material (6/4+). I've had about 8 high quality thin kerfs on my saw, and have not had any deflection problems with any of them, but I've never been happy with a cheapo blade.

[Drew Armstrong]

OK, I went way back to find this thread... I have been thinking about a Tenru GP blade versus the WW2... any one have experience with both... what do you think?

Drew

[Mike Henderson]

OK, I went way back to find this thread... I have been thinking about a Tenru GP blade versus the WW2... any one have experience with both... what do you think?

Drew
I've used both and find they're about equal. The Tenryu I have is a Gold Medal (I think that's the name) 40 tooth general purpose blade. My WW2 is a 40 tooth also.

Mike

[Drew Armstrong]

Is there a real difference in the noise with the tenru or is that a new blade?

Drew

[Mike Henderson]

Is there a real difference in the noise with the tenru or is that a new blade?

Drew
I'm the wrong person to ask that of. I wear hearing aids and am lucky to hear anything. The only good thing is that the hearing aids act as hearing protectors - they limit the level of sound that goes into my ears.

Mike

[Dick Bringhurst]

I don't have a WWII, but my Tenryu blades are the quietest blades I have. Others include Amana, Delta, DML,Oldham,and Craftsman Silver series. The Tenryu stays on the saw, Dick B.

[Rod Sheridan]

I normally purchase saw blades from industrial saw suppliers, I suggest you check for one in your area.

Presently I am using Dimar blades for the TS, and have purchased some of their shaper cutters as well.

Many people have great comments on Forrest blades, I've never used them. I have purchased Freud blades which although they worked well, did not work better than the blades from the industrial suppliers, and cost more. (You experience may be different in the US).

I always purchase standard kerf blades, as I've found that the thin kerf blades are not stable enough, and they are noisier due to flutter.

I keep a combination blade in the saw for general use and plywood use.

For ripping I have a 24 tooth rip blade, obviously only used to rip solid wood.

I have an 80 tooth croscut blade that I use for very fine crosscuts such as on furniture where the cut ends will be visible.

I also have a melamine blade for melamine covered particle board.

I also have a 40 tooth??? ATB blade for when the kid from two houses down the street shows up with his prized scrap of old plywood that we are going to convert to fine furniture for his Moms birthday, or a hood for his soapbox car. It's an inexpensive blade, about $40, and I won't cry when I find the hidden nail with that blade. (Not to mention the grit, kids seem to store their prized wood in a ditch).

I expect that every answer you receive will be different, hope this helps..........Rod.

P.S. Here is a link to a saw company with some good information on blade types http://www.generalsaw.com/index.html

[Emmanuel Weber]

I have used both the tenryu gold medal and the WWII. They both have excellent and comparable quality. The tenryu has a smaller kerf 0.111 (if my memory is good) so you need to make sure your splitter is thin enough to avoid binding. The tenryu is also significantly quieter.

[Tom Walz]

Saw blade info at:

http://site.longlifetools.com/index.htm (http://site.longlifetools.com/index.htm)

Click on technical info.

I have a lot more I am slowly getting up.

tom

[Tom Walz]

Carbide is typically tungsten carbide particles in a cobalt binder. If you add Titanium as in titanium carbide, titanium nitride or titanium carbonitride to the tips you can greatly increase the amount of time they stay sharp. It is sort of like a saw tip made out of solid coating. They also have the advantage that they retain the same coating after they have been reground.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Take fifty bucks with you to Lowes. Buy the Delta 7657 for $39.99+ tax. Stop on the way home and have some lunch with the change. If you aren't happy with blade, simply return it. They offer a 30 day satisfaction guarentee- no questions asked. How can you go wrong with this deal? I own a two of the following: Forrest WWII's, Freud LU 84R, Delta/ DeWalt 7567, along with a four Oldham 40 tooth blades. Right now, the Delta/ DeWalt 7657 is on the saw. Seldom do I use the Forrest's. They are way over priced, IMHO.

[Brandon Shew]

I find myself on the different side of Jim and Scott. I prefer to use a purpose specific blade. If you're going to do a woodworking project right, it generally takes time. It doesn't really take that long to change the blade and the results are much better.

Like the name suggests, general use blades like the WWII are generally good at cross cutting and generally good at ripping. A blade designed to do everything good won't do a specific task great. A specific rip blade and a specific cross cut blade work much better at their requisite tasks IMO with better results. I have a Freud Glue Line Rip blade and I find that I don't need to use a jointer after cutting with it where the general purpose blades that I have used leave a less smooth surface.

I do prefer a full Kerf blade - even with my underpowered contractor's saw. It has less deflection and less flex.

As to the manufacturer and blade type - take your pick. It's like asking is a Mercedes better than a BMW or Audi or Lexus. I've used Freud, Forest, DeWalt... and had good results with each. Each manufacturer will put their spin on their "technology", but generally you get what you pay for so opt for a good blade.

[scott spencer]

OK, I went way back to find this thread... I have been thinking about a Tenru GP blade versus the WW2... any one have experience with both... what do you think?

Drew

Hi Drew - I've had and used both...more so the WWII, and found them fairly comparable in cut quality. Their tooth geometry and configuration are very similar too. Both do a very good job in crosscuts, sheetgoods, and rips, though not quite to the extent that a dedicated blade would. I didn't notice much difference in noise, but I tend to wear hearing protection that would mask that difference.

The differences I note are things like kerf width (which impacts feedrate, which influences performance in thicker material and strain on the saw)...the GM is 0.111" (mid kerf), while the WWII is available in both full (0.125") and thin kerf (0.100). My WWII is a TK and has a slightly faster feedrate than the Gold Medal, and I'd guess the GM will feed slightly faster than the full kerf WWII. The WWII is American made, whereas the Tenryu is made in Japan.

If you're interested, here's a comparison chart I updated this summer:
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=61724&highlight=blade+turns

[joe pezza]

for what it's worth,
i run 3 blades, two combos (1 spare so i can clean the other at my convienece) a forest and a freud, and i have a freud ripper. 3 blades and done for 95 % of my work.
oh, and a freud dado set, sorry 4 blades.
dont overthink it, get a good price and pull the trigger.

joe p

[Bruce Wrenn]

I have the Freud Glue line blade also, but if you could see the rip cuts I did today on some 12/4 white oak legs with the 7657, you would sell your jointer, along with your Glue Line Rip blade. Oh yeah, these cuts were made in a single pass on my Delta contractor's saw. It does have a 2.0 HP motor hanging off the back though. Very little burning on two of eight pieces.