Planer recommendations

[Ron Franssen]

I'm soliciting comments and recommendations about purchasing a replacement planer.

Currently I have a delta 13" portable planer. Several months back I lost part of the rubber off of the infeed and outfeed rollers. Last week something popped and the rollers won't turn at all, or the cutterhead. :mad: My guess is a sprocket, but I haven't had time to "tear into it".

Anyhow, this seems like the perfect opportunity to "upgrade" :D , with the wife's approval.

So, my normal woodworking activities are building furniture, although for the last year or so, I've been building cabinets. One right after the other. The 13" planer works for the majority of things I've done. I'd like to step up to a more expensive (read bigger) planer, but the jump to the next level is significant. So unless someone has another suggestion, I guess I'm limiting myself to the "portable" planer market, which includes the newer delta and dewalt models.

So what do you guys think? Blast away as I haven't purchased anything yet. I want the good and the bad as you see it.

Thanks in advance.
Ron

[Mark Pruitt]

Ron, I have an even-older Delta 12" planer which I'm beginning to tire of using. I have to engage in all manner of stupid tactics to minimize its unquenching thirst for sniping. I mention this because I too am thinking about possible alternatives, and one such alternative is to keep my "snipemaster" for a while longer and buy a drum sander instead. I'm thinking that I could switch to the drum sander once I get to within 1/32 of the desired thickness and in so doing eliminate the damage done by the "snipemaster." This idea might be worthy of your consideration. Best wishes.

[tod evans]

ron, if you`re killing lunchbox planers it`s time to buck-up for cast iron and horsepower...02 tod

[Jeff Horton]

Nothing specific by brand but watch the used market/dealer for an older planer. Many are built like tanks and do excellent work. And you can save some money for wood too.

[Dev Emch]

Nothing specific by brand but watch the used market/dealer for an older planer. Many are built like tanks and do excellent work. And you can save some money for wood too.

True but also bear in mind that some of these weigh thousands of pounds and require three phase. Might I suggest an intermediate solution. A 12 inch Parks makes an excellent planer for your use as does an 18 inch oliver 399.

[Philip Glover]

Ron,

In addition to some of the great "Old Arn" out there, you could go down a couple of other tracks that I think represent a good value. New and used, there are 20" and 24" machines with Tersa heads. Machines such as Mini Max, SCMI, and Sac would all do the trick. There are other European brands, but getting parts can be a problem.
Generally speaking I think Tersa heads with their replaceable blades are the best all-around system. Some people like other systems, but the fact that Martin planers come with Tersa heads puts the whole argument to bed.
You could also consider jointer-planer combo machines. In this type of machine you'll be looking at 16" with Tersa heads. The best choice here is Mini Max. There are 20" and 24" combo machines available but they are less common and more $.
Have fun looking at all the different machines.

Regards,
Phil

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Planers are sduch a damm simple maching I submit that you simply decide how much money you can spend and $600.00 to that and get one (used or new) then go buy a spiral carbide insert head with the $6 bills.

PM, General, and Griz are popular. If you are looking at planers at that consumer level you might look at Woodtek. They are cheap and modeled after the other boys. It's a stupidly simple technology relying more on mass than sophistication. You can spend ooodles and never do better than a good old Oliver Babbit bearing machine might offer from the 1940's.

I have a question: Unless you are doing production work needing hundreds of pieces milled the same thickness for any one project - - - - -Why do you need more than 13" across?? I'd get a bigger sander for doors and case work but a planer only needs to be as wide as the largest board you want to plane. If you are making tabletops or casements or doors you won't need more than a 12" planer tops. Even for guitar work a 12" is plenty. It's the asembled products that will need a big sander. At least, that's my thinking. So I am asking that question.

[Jerry Olexa]

Im very happy w my Delta 13" planer. YESTERDAY,I planed some 4/4 cherry down to 5/16 and worked perfectly. Other than lots of shavings...Sorry yours hasn't worked out..

[Mack Cameron]

Such a waste of perfectly good cherry, Had you considered resawing at all? 1/2" and then plane to 5/16", or use it at 7/8" or 13/16". In Canada I'm paying $6.50 bd/ft. Can't afford to turn that into shavings.

[Michael Pfau]

Ron, any warranty left on it? I run a Delta 13 inch, and love it. I looked into upgrading to the delta 15 inch. I was told by the dealer, that the 13 inch would give a better cut, and that the 15 inch is really made for a cabinet shop,ie. running non stop every day...and what not. makes since to me. I still would like to get into one for the only reason I love spending money on tools! But horse sense tells me that the lunch box is the way to go. I would think it would be something that could be replaced very easily, the parts that went out I mean...Good Luck..

[Joe Mioux]

Im very happy w my Delta 13" planer. YESTERDAY,I planed some 4/4 cherry down to 5/16 and worked perfectly. Other than lots of shavings...Sorry yours hasn't worked out..

It's therapy, right?;)

Next therapy session should be conducted on a good re-saw bandsaw.:)

Jerry, I have done what you have done, only with different wood and that is why a bandsaw is coming.

[lou sansone]

I agree with tod and dev.. cast iron or heavy plate steel and hp for the planer

lou

[Rick de Roque]

I had the 13" dewalt and upgraded to a 20" 5 hp shopfox. I'm glad I did. I had to take small bites with the lunch box planer and now I can do all my planing in half the time. Also when I glue up 19" panels for the sides to a night stand or chest of drawers I just send it through the 20" planer and comes out nice and flat. BTW I purchased used for less than $1000.00 delivered and feel it has been worth every penny. Its alot quieter also. Just my .02.

Rick

[Jerry Olexa]

Mack and Joe: Yeah, you're both right. My smaller Jet BS could have handled it. But I was in a hurry, knew that planer would handle it in 5-10 minutes. I don't yet have a good fence setup on the BS for resawing. These were small 1 1/2 X 4/4 pcs 18" long to be used for drawer guides (only needed 3) so I didn't waste too much cherry:) Thanks for your tips and humor:) Next time, I'll resaw...

[Joe Jensen]

Solid cast iron construction, plenty of HP, and true industrial planer construction with a Pressure Bar, and Chipbreaker. No longer manufactured, but readily available. The used equip dealer here in town has 2 on the floor. Expect to pay $500 for one that needs some TLC, and around $1000 for one that is perfect. These sold new for $2600 in 1990 when I bought mine...joe

[Mack Cameron]

Mack and Joe: Yeah, you're both right. My smaller Jet BS could have handled it. But I was in a hurry, knew that planer would handle it in 5-10 minutes. I don't yet have a good fence setup on the BS for resawing. These were small 1 1/2 X 4/4 pcs 18" long to be used for drawer guides (only needed 3) so I didn't waste too much cherry:) Thanks for your tips and humor:) Next time, I'll resaw...

Hi Jerry; O.K. I'll forgive you this time, but remember Haste makes Waste.

[Seth Poorman]

Ron
If a larger planer is what you are after may I suggest the Powermatic 180 18" , It is american made and is a real work horse, I have mine fitted w/ a 5 hp motor and carbide knives (3 knife cutterhead). The carbide knifes stay sharp forever.
And there is no lack of power w/ a 5 hp motor, the extra 6" of space (over a 12") has proven to be beneficial, you can use those 14" boards for table top glueups if you want to ,and you can still run those glued up panels as long as their small enough.:cool:
Once you have a machine like this tuned correctly snipe is virtually non existent.;)

[Jerry Olexa]

[quote="Mack Cameron"]Hi Jerry; O.K. I'll forgive you this time, but remember Haste makes Waste.[
Mack As I read your message, I realize your signature @ bottom (below) says it all...I was LAZY...Taking the time to do it right would have prepared me for the next time. I like your quote below. GUILTY as charged!!:D :)

/Hard work pays off in the future;
Laziness pays off now! <!-- / sig -->quote]

[Brian Triplett]

Just my two cents but I would stay away from the 13" dewalt. It has been ok but the blades need to be replaced way to often (only 1/8 thick). I currently have it and am currently looking for something else, probably grizzly will meet my needs plus budget. Plus at 101db it is way to loud. Good luck. :)

[Dennis Peacock]

I agree with Tod and Dev.......I've burned up TWO "lunchbox" planers and after going with cast iron? Life's been GRAND!!!!! Much easier on the machine and on YOU!!!!! Once you do it? You won't regret getting the cast iron type planer. I have a new PM 15" with spiral cutterhead....It's WONDERFUL!!!!:D

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Well ya know therer is always the new MiniMax FS41Elite S Jointer/Planer for a mere $9995.00

I just saw some trade show marketing pix. It's really purdy.

[Gary Hoemann]

I only need or have room for a 13 inch planer. I recently replaced my Delta with a ridgid. Works fine, cheaper than dewalt and a lifetime warrenty when I registered it on the web site.

[Dev Emch]

Planers are sduch a damm simple maching I submit that you simply decide how much money you can spend and $600.00 to that and get one (used or new) then go buy a spiral carbide insert head with the $6 bills.

PM, General, and Griz are popular. If you are looking at planers at that consumer level you might look at Woodtek. They are cheap and modeled after the other boys. It's a stupidly simple technology relying more on mass than sophistication. You can spend ooodles and never do better than a good old Oliver Babbit bearing machine might offer from the 1940's.



Not sure about this quote. Cliff, are you saying planers are simple machines? The lunch box ones are and that is why you guys are eating these like pototatoe chips. As they say, you just cannt eat but one.:rolleyes:

Planer-ology is some serious machine shop and design work. In principle these are simple... when you compare them to the space shuttle. In practice, its the little details that make the difference.

Now. A real macho-wacho planer will have six primary components.

1). The first and primary item is your cutter head. This will have 3 to 6 knives depending on model and style, etc. My 1904 Fay & Egan has a square cutter head with only two knives. Modern planers are moving towards helical and helical insert heads. Regardless of how the cutlery is layed out, you need to know your cutting circle to within thousandths of an inch. This is the arch that actual cutting edge sweeps out. Its is also why you should begin a tune up by first installing the knives. You will use the figure later on.

2). The second item to discuss is your chip breaker. Chip breakers sit infront of the cutter head and break the chips as they come off the cutter head. This is very important as an improperly set chip breaker can split the wood along the leading edge of the cut. If the chipbreaker is set to low (below the cutting arc from the aforementioned cutter head statement), then the planer will have problems. Most chipbreakers are heavy cast iron affairs that hinge from the rear so the feed system can force them up a bit. Chipbreakers can be either solid or segmented. Smaller planers under 24 inches often have solid chipbreakers. Machines like the oliver 399 which is an 18 inch planer has a solid chipbreaker as does the 24 inch newman 600. But General's 20 inch planer has a segmented chipbreaker and the 14 incher has a solid chipbreaker.

3). Now you get to the infeed section of the planer. The upper infeed roller is called the infeed roll and its often serrated to grab the wood. Cheaper cheasy planers sometimes have a rubber roller up here. The more substantial planers often have a segmented infeed roller in which the roller is divided into 2 inch sections of which each is spring loaded. This allows each sement to move up and down as the roll in general is powered round and round. This allows the infeed roller to contour to odd shaped boards. Most planers have a single infeed roller but planers like the Buss 44 have TWIN SEGMENTED INFEED ROLLS.

4). After leaving the cutter head, the board encounters the planer's pressure bar. This bar is a solid hunk of metal that places down pressure on the board after leaving the cutter head. It is usually set about 3 thousandths of inch higher than the cutter head blade arc. If its lower than the blade arc, it can lead to jambs.

5). The last roller or rollers to be encountered would be the outfeed roll or rolls. Most planers have a single roll but some have two. Planers like the martin and hofmann offten have outfeed rolls covered with a hard rubber which is difficult and expensive to replace. Most older planers use a solid, smooth machined cylinder for this. Yet other planers have a mechanical brush following the outfeed roller to clear stray chips from jambing in the feed works.

The infeed roll and outfeed roll are mechanically coupled and driven by the feed motor or feed system. On planers like the the general 14 incher and the parks 12 incher, you have a two speed, oil bath gear housing that is driven from the main motor to provide motive force for the feed works. Larger, more expensive planers have a separate motor for this. Planers like the powermatic 225 for example have a bidirectional drum switch to reverse the feed works in the event of a jamb.

Most planers utilize a chain and belt drive system to power all these rollers. The more substantial planers often used a totally gear driven system which was expensive and complex. For example, the Buss 44 had a gear based system and the Buss 4L as does the powermatic 225 and some extent, the oliver 299 has a chain and belt system. Newer oliver 299s switched over to more of a chain and belt drive scheme whereas older oliver 299s used more of a chain and gear system. Planers like the newman whitney S-209 was loaded full of solid gears and no belt drive.

6). Powered bed rollers are located in the bed just infront of and behind the cutter block. These are powered by a number of schemes and actually have a two jointed universal joint drive shaft on my oliver 299. Other schemes included a pitman arm and floating gear arrangement. The problem is that the table must move up and down and the power bed rollers must rotate. Thus, you have to supply motive force to the bed rollers while allowing the bed to move up and down.

The bed rollers are adjusted to 5 thousandths above the plane of the bed for doing finish work. If your doing rough cut lumber facing, then you want the bed rollers adjusted to 20 thou above the plane of the bed. Some planers like the Buss 44 and some powermatic 225s have a feature called microadjustable bed rollers. This was an option on other planers like the oliver 299. Not all had this and mine does not. There is a lever, usually on the bed itself, that can move all four points of the bed rollers up or down concurrently between two predefined settings. So if I move the lever to fine, then the rollers are moved such that they are only 5 thou proud of the bed. Likewise, if I move the lever to course, then the rollers are reset to 20 thou proud of the bed.

Lastly you have planer beds. Planer beds are often one of two designs. Screw bed versus Wedge bed. The screw bed is the most popular and is used on cheaper planers and some smaller industrial planers. Planers like my oliver 299 or the newman 248 used a twin screw system riding four independent, gib adjustable ways. Spider gearing and drive shafts interconnect my two screws but usually one finds bicycle chains being used with sprockets to interconnect these screws.

Simply put, the screw bed is cheaper to make and not as accurate as the wedge bed. Oliver and others acheived excellent accuracy using the screw bed as its impossible to build a small footprint wedge bed planer. But you have to keep the four gibs on the table ways constantly adjusted or you can pick up snipe on both the front and rear of a board. Screw beds are also size limited. The 24 inch planer with a lighter table can use the screw bed but your pushing your luck. In the oliver 299, the spider gearing and other gears used to drive the screws offer some mechanical advantage. But at the end of the day, it becomes very hard to crank a large screw bed up and down as your moving a lot of cast iron.

The most accurate and heavy duty planer bed is the wedge bed. In a wedge bed, you have an incline ramp structure attached to your front mounted leadscrew. This incline ramp structure moves horizontally from the rear of the planer to the front of the planer based on the table leadscrew position. Under the main table is a second ramp structure that rides up and down on the inclines of the lower structure just mentioned. Small vertical guides on the table and main body keep the table from moving left and right during movement. This in turn creates slipage on the two inclines as movment occurs and there is usually an oiler to keep these opposing surfaces well lubricated.

The wedge bed allows a user to move a much larger and heavier table structure and the table is inherently more accurate. Its more akin to some of the older and larger wedgebed jointers like the northfield and porter. They are also larger and heavier than most planers. Usually a wedgebed planer will tip the scales at about 4000 to 10,000 pounds so they are big.

But I have seen a smaller wedge bed made by delta/rockwell years ago. The ones I have seen are 18 inch planers and these are darn nice small shop planers.

I hope this diatribe on planers shows folks that 1). Not all planers are created equal and 2). The planer is not a simple wood-cuttin device. Cheers.

[lou sansone]

excellent write up dev! I think it provides plenty of good solid information
lou

[Chris Rosenberger]

Ron
If a larger planer is what you are after may I suggest the Powermatic 180 18" , It is american made and is a real work horse, I have mine fitted w/ a 5 hp motor and carbide knives (3 knife cutterhead). The carbide knifes stay sharp forever.
And there is no lack of power w/ a 5 hp motor, the extra 6" of space (over a 12") has proven to be beneficial, you can use those 14" boards for table top glueups if you want to ,and you can still run those glued up panels as long as their small enough.:cool:
Once you have a machine like this tuned correctly snipe is virtually non existent.;)
The hard part is finding one of these machines since they are no longer being manufactured.:(

They are not that hard to find.:)
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=34596

[Seth Poorman]

True Chris ..
I guess I was just thinking how hard it was for me to find my planer at a price that I could afford..I know that you can find them on ebay and woodworking dealerships,but often they are wanting $1500 for a fixer upper and $3000 to $4500 for one that is in really good condition.:eek:
I bought my 1988 PM 180 for $1000 and it didnt need much of anything other than a good tune up and a few new small springs for the sectional infeed roller.

[Chris Rosenberger]

I know what you mean on the prices. I bought a 1995 PM 180 with a sectional infeed about a month ago off of Ebay. I paid more than I should have, but wanted the sectional infeed & the seller agreed to deliver it.

[fRED mCnEILL]

My friend bought a 15 in Grizzly planer and I bought a 20 in Grizzly planer. We are both very satisfied with these machines. And at $775 for the 15 in the price isn;t bad.

Prior to this I had a Dewlat 12 1/2 in that did a pretty good job. It is just nicer to not have to saw and glue up larger boards.

Fred Mc.

[chester stidham]

Hi when I was looking for a lunch box planer I went to all the tool forums I could find and most people were happy with there Delta and Dewalt and Riged planers but there were always a few unhappy owners with those brands but the Mekita NB2012 there was none that I could find so I went with one and so far it's worked well and I would recomend it to any one looking to replace one it's not cheep but you do get what you pay for.:D