Oven cleaner w/ Teflon question

[Seth Poorman]

Hey Guys
I have a new teflon 10" CMT blade that I bought last month and used it on a treated lumber job...A lot of pitch was picked up on the blade
and now I want to clean it, I always used oven cleaner on my steel blades,but Im concerned about useing the oven cleaner w/ the teflon.:confused:
Will it remove the teflon I wonder ????????
Thanks for your input.:)

[Richard Wolf]

I'm not sure, but, wasn't there some talk about oven cleaners destroying the carbite on the blades.

Richard

[Rick Christopherson]

Most people do not want to use oven cleaner on their blades, however, the myth that oven cleaner will destroy the blades is false. Oven cleaner is a Base, not an Acid, so it will not eat into the metal, nor the teflon. This is why it is used to clean enamel coated metal ovens!! I don't know what is the best cleaner out there, but I just hate seeing misinformation.

[Dan Oliphant]

I have several carbide tipped blades that are teflon coated. Have used them on a daily basis for several years now. They all are cleaned using oven cleaner as needed. No problems.
These blades are cutting anything from pine to hickory.

[Bob Rufener]

I bought a router from a fellow recently who taught woodworking at a vocational school and also ran a cabinet shop. He said the only thing he uses is baking soda and water and it works well. I haven't tried it but I have no reason to doubt what he says.

[Joe Jensen]

I used oven cleaner on my Weber BBQ. Worked great on the metal and porcelin surfaces, but it stipped the paint off any surface that was painted. Work better than any paint stripper, but unfortunately I didn't want the paint stripped. Also, the base metal under the paint was cast aluminum, and the oven cleaner oxidized the aluminum pretty badly. I use it on blades, but it takes any painted logos and numbers and such off the blade plate. I would not use it on a teflon blade unless you are ok with the teflon falling off...joe

[Doug Ketellapper]

I've had good success using Simple Green to clean blades. Now that they have the lemon scent version I can stand having the stuff in the shop...

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

There is no probability of a reaction between the PTFE on your blade and the caustic oven cleaner.

However - and I'm just tossing an idea here - there may be a possibilty of trapping the oven cvleaner under the PTFE if there is a capiliary access or the PTFE on the blade is flaking.

Any caustic if left in contace with a reactive material will take a toll.

I suspect that Sintered Ceramic (carbide) isn't going to react with any base ( or acid) you are going to lay hand to in a consumer product.

You can however, obtain a very powerful acid gas from PTFE by applying sufficient heat. You won't get lots of gas and you won't easily harm anything unless you figure a way to trap and concentrate the gas near the material to be harmed. Recall that myth about Teflon cookware and toxic gas?? There it is. It's not entirely myth. The myth is in the idea that one or a few pans in normal use could popssibly produce an amount of gas to have a negative effect. That is the myth.


PTFE will not harm metals unless you heat it to about 400-500 Deg F.
At about 400-F it begins to decompose and give off a retrograde product that will etch and pit almost everything. The regrograde product in question is Hydroflouric Acid. It's a particularly potent acid being so strong as to eat through almost everything. It's shipped and stored in wax lined bottles.

However, this is ( I think) a better reason to avoid teflon in the shop: It can enter the fibers of wood contaminating it and making for fhinshing issues.

[Norman Hitt]

I don't want to be argumentative here, AND I'm certainly no authority on this subject, Buuuuuut........there have been several quotes in the past on WW forums from different Blade Mfrs Tech Depts and everyone of them said "DO NOT" use oven cleaner, because of (some kind of reaction) with the "brazing" on the carbide blades and they could easily deteriorate enough for the carbide tips to fly off. You might want to check with your Blade Manufacturer's Tech Dept for a "FINAL ANSWER".;) Note: I CAN'T use oven cleaner because I am EXTREMELY Allergic to ALL of it. I do use Simple Green, but limit my exposure to it also for the same reason, but it's not nearly as bad.

[Tom Hintz]

I also have heard the cautions about using overn cleaner on blades (and bits) from the manufacturers and just do not see the point in using it anymore with all the alternatives we have today. Simple Green and many other household cleaners, used with a brass or synthetic brush do a good (and fast) job without any of the problems of a caustic material, regardless of how slight that might be.
I try to clean blades and bits as soon as they start showing contamination becuase that also begins to degrade their performance. I have never had any trouble getting a blade or bit shinny clean with plain 409 or Simple Green so will leave the harsher stuff for the oven.

[scott spencer]

Seth - There are many effective alternatives that are easier to use than oven cleaner. Of all the different things I've tried, oven cleaner is the messiest. I prefer 409, Simple Green, Dawn detergent/water, Goo Gone, Boeshield Bladesnbits, and WD-40.

[tod evans]

seth, if i`m in a hurry to de-gunk i`ll use lacquer thinner, if i`m not in a hurry mineral spirits. cut down an old 5-gal paint bucket they fit a 10" blade pretty well .02 tod

[Matt Meiser]

Boesheild Bit and Blade Cleaner is easy to use, not terribly expensive, and made for cleaning blades. Why not just use that? I just used it to clean three miter saw blades I was planning to have sharpened because they were cutting so bad. Turns out two of them are just fine and only needed cleaning. The third I can see a refllection on the cutting edge of the carbide, which Keith July says means they are dull.

http://www.boeshield.com/

According to their web site, their products are now available at Sears and I've seen them at pretty much every woodworking/tool store I've been to.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

because of (some kind of reaction) with the "brazing" on the carbide blades and they could easily deteriorate enough for the carbide tips to fly

Not there's something that entirely slipped past me. The softer brazing metals are indeed very reactive.

Even household bleach will do a number on them.

[Charles McCracken]

Most people do not want to use oven cleaner on their blades, however, the myth that oven cleaner will destroy the blades is false. Oven cleaner is a Base, not an Acid, so it will not eat into the metal, nor the teflon. This is why it is used to clean enamel coated metal ovens!! I don't know what is the best cleaner out there, but I just hate seeing misinformation.

The fact that oven cleaner is a base is exactly what makes it detrimental to carbide. The higher the pH the more harmful the cleaner is (strong acids of 5.5 pH and lower should also be avoided). I am not a chemist so I rely on information provided by our carbide factory in Italy. I have seen photos of the damage caused by high pH cleaners and it is not pretty.

[Scott D Johnson]

I advocate the use of CMT's Formula 2050 Cleaner. http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=5396 It is only $12 and when you are cleaning blades and router bits that are worth hundreds of dollars, it seems worth it.

[Rick Christopherson]

The fact that oven cleaner is a base is exactly what makes it detrimental to carbide. The higher the pH the more harmful the cleaner is (strong acids of 5.5 pH and lower should also be avoided). I am not a chemist so I rely on information provided by our carbide factory in Italy. I have seen photos of the damage caused by high pH cleaners and it is not pretty. Charles, This is the reason why this myth exists. (Don't take that the wrong way, please). I am not advocating using oven cleaner, just that the information is backwards, and your posting supports this, including why the myth exists.

Bases have a pH above 7, and acids have a pH below 7. Your engineers said to not use anything below 5.5, which is acidic. Oven cleaner is a mild Base. I don't know the pH of oven cleaner, but I would guess it is up around a pH of 8.5 to 9.5

No cleaning agent should be left on a blade for long periods of time, but oven cleaner is not going to make the teeth fall off like the original (i.e. 10 year old) myth states.

Oh, I just reread your post and noticed where you said "...the higher the pH...". It is the Low pH that needs to be avoided. Many people confuse this. The word "Strong" is used to describe very acidic or very basic materials, because "high" indicates a base.

[Charles McCracken]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. Anything over 7 is base and EasyOff is 9.5 to 10 pH. Obviously this is not as strong as a substance that is 14 pH but still much stronger than 7 pH. And yes, the higher the pH the more it will damage the carbide. The converse is true for acids: the lower the pH the more damaging. When I said "strong acids" I was comparing acids that are lower than 5.5 to those that are between 5.5 and 7.0.

[Rick Christopherson]

Charles, yes I understood what you were saying, but the information (i.e. chemistry) is the part that is not correct.

Acids react with metals, whereas bases attack proteins. An acid is a hydrogen ion doner, and a metal is an electron doner (which is why metals are good conductors). When an acid reacts with a metal, it produces a compound with the cation of the metal and the anion of the acid and hydrogen gas.

Most strong bases are actually hydroxides of active metals from the first column in the period table, such as lithium hydroxide, sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, etc. Acids come from the opposite side of the periodic table such as hydroflouric, hydrochloric, or hydrobromic acids.

[Steve Clardy]

Wd-40 or something equilvant works for me.
Even a soaking in straight water will remove pine pitch.

[Charles McCracken]

Rick,

I don't argue with the people we employ to make the carbide and I can't argue with the evidence I have seen. I made it clear that I am not a chemist and your diatribe does not necessarily make you more believable. Do you have some real world experience in the reaction of oven cleaner with carbide?

[Rick Christopherson]

Charles, it is unfortunate that you appear to have taken this discussion as a personal affront, but with that, I would rather bow out of a discussion than to offend you any further. I don’t expect you to believe me, and I’m not interested in getting into an argument over it. However, I do know chemistry, and I have discussed this on a technical level with blade manufacturers here in the U.S.

[Charles McCracken]

Rick,

My skin is much too thick to be put off by this discussion and I hope that you feel the same. My only reason for pursuing this matter is to ensure that correct information is available. I don't have any vested interest in advising against oven cleaner. In fact, we all agree that it does an excellent job of removing the crud so if it were not damaging we would be happy to recommend it. Since you have stepped up as the myth buster I leave it to you to show us your data. No argument is necessary, just present relevant facts. Many people on this and other forums respect your advice and opinions and I think it would be unfair to them to give incomplete information.

[chester stidham]

Charles is right I'm a chem thch in a can manufacture and we use solid carbide punches to make the cans and our coolant has a 9.2 P.H. when we shut down wich is only a few days a year we have to pull all the punches and clean them off or we get pitting in them if you need to prove the point to yourself get some lime and carbide mix it with water and see what happens if you do use it you need to get it off the blade as soon as possable I use a rag and M.E.K solvent in a open place with gloves works great also takes off packing grease faster the any thing but it well remove the paint too it dosent leve any resdue that well stain or hurt wood finishes also works good for cleaning metal for painting. :confused:

[Lee Schierer]

I use sudsy amonia to clean my blades. It works well, doesn't appear to damge the blades. I let them soak for about 20 minutes, scrub a bit with an old tooth brush, rinse with clean water,dry and they come out clean.

Wasn't there just recently a posting concerning the use of Simple Green. Seems to me that I read that it also attacks the material in either the carbide or the braizing. As I recall it ws confirmed by someone at Simple Green.:confused:

[Russ Filtz]

I too thought that Simple Green under attack for attacking carbide?

OK, here's a student study of cleaner toxicity in plants. The study was for being "green" and the results may not translate to humans or structural issues! Determined Simple Green was worst of 3 tested. Orange Plus came out on top. Anyone clean blades with Orange Plus?

http://www.milton.edu/academics/pages/laboratory2.pdf

[Lee Schierer]

I knew I had seen a previous post about Simple Green, so I did a search of previous posts and found this one regarding using Simple Green for a blade cleaner:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=30881&highlight=simple+green

Apparently they do recommend a newer product called Extreme Green, which may not be available in all areas.

[Frank Chaffee]

Lee,
I’m surprised that it took so long for a Creeker to finally seek out that url. Thanks. I would have but have been having waay too much fun watching this discussion.:o
Frank

[Seth Poorman]

Hey Guys thanks for the info ,looks like I stired up a good Post:D ...All the Tech Jargon going On:eek: ..LOL
I ended up using the baking soda w/ warm water. Works Ok,I think alittle more work , The oven cleaner was faster w/ my other blades (Before).
Just spray it on, and wipe it off and rinse in warm water. :rolleyes:

[Howard Acheson]

Charles, as support to what you said, I do not know of any carbide tipped manufacturer who doesn't take the same position on the subject of oven cleaner.