Question on Koi.....

[Joe Tonich]

Are Koi like other fish and grow according to pond size or do they keep growing? My sons wanted a pond, so I let them have at it. Not bad for an 11 year old and a 12 year old, eh? It's a 180 something gallon pond, one of the deep ones. They dug the hole all by themselves, which ended up being a very good lesson. They started complainin and I told em that was what they'd be doing if they didn't do good in school. ;) Anyhow...since we live by the park (LOTS of woods) we put in some Goldfish to see if they're gonna get eaten or not. Hate to put in a pricey fish for some animals dinner.

Also, what kind of plants would work for around it? Want to get them planted before we finish the stones.

Thanks,

[Ian Abraham]

Koi will grow pretty big if they have enough space / food. But in a small pond lack of food tends to restrict their size.
They have got loose in some rivers here and grow to huge sizes, pity they are no good to eat :rolleyes: . Local bow and arrow club hunts them for sport, with the full blessing of the conservation department who would like them all shot :D

Cheers

Ian

[Joe Pelonio]

Joe,

Those guys did a great job!

With Koi a variety of factors affect growth rate, not pond size. One of them is poulation density in the pond, but also water temperatures, sexual maturity, genetics, and quality of food.

I keep only goldish in ours, and have had to replace many of them every year due to being eaten by either a heron or racoons. If you have either of those I'd suggest the 25 cent feeder goldfish. Our have gotten to 6" or more after 2 years. If they get eaten just get more. You don't feed them in the winter when it's cold, some time in the fall they will no longer come up and eat the food, so you know it's time to stop feeding. Mine are still not eating yet, usually some time in May (50+ F)it gets warm enough. Yhey sort of go dormant in the winter, with a real slow metabolism, and if the eat it will rot in their stomach and kill them. Most koi people heat their ponds and feed all year but change to a faster digesting food.

As for plants you can put water lillies and water iris, cattails, and they will come back every spring. Then there's water lettuce and hyacinth that float on the surface. I use them because they help keep the water clean and the fish can nibble on them. Those die in the winter and I replace about this time.

[Jim Becker]

We went with the 15-for-a-buck feeder fish to start and have four of them left...at about 7" long apiece going into their third year. We added a couple shebunkins...also at about 8" after two years with us. Both of these related fishes are easy to keep and less demanding for the environment. However, in your/our area, you need at least 24" or more of depth to over-winter them. Koi require a deeper pond to over-winter; something we didn't want to do.

Your plants also need to be chosen, both for depth and hardiness in your area.

[Jim DeLaney]

Do you have a filtration system? Probably something like some Scotchbrite-looking mats, and maybe some lava rock eith in the skimmer or at the top of the waterfall? Assuming you do, you'll need to feed the filtration system some enzyme to get the bacteria going. Any pond supply place will have it.

Also, as Joe mentioned, water hyacinth or water lettuce are both very prolific plants that have large hanging root systems that filter the water to keep it clear. Don't put too may of either plant in the pond, though. They'll take it over completely by Summer's end. For instance, I have a 1500 gallon pons - about 8 X 20 surface area - and I only use three hyacinths and two lettuce plants. In fact, I just put mine in last week.

Last year, by August I was taking hyacinths out of the pont to keep them from completely covering it. BTW, regarding fish, I have about 40 or so 4"~6" goldfish. Lose a few to herons and raccoons from time to time, but most of them have been in there for several years. When the water temp goes below 50°, the fish stop eating. They survive the Winter under the ice.

I get a lot of enjoyment from my little pond. Usually futz around with it a bit nearly every day.



<center><img src="http://www.jcdelaney.com/Pond.jpg"></center><P>

[Joe Pelonio]

Ours is 16" at one end and 26 at the other, it's been frozen over top 2"
without harming the fish, but we only get down to 15-20F.

Jim,

Very nice, and I love the setting. Mine's between the deck and the fence, barely room to walk around it.

[Joe Tonich]

I have the prefilter that screws to the pump. Do I need to have the pump/waterfall running 24/7 or can I turn it off at night. Think we're gonna stick with the goldfish for a while. The pond is "Nuts deep" accordin to John...LOL

[Jim Becker]

Jim, good point on the filtration system. For our little pond that started this whole thing, Alison (aka, Dr. SWMBO) made her own biological filters using lava rock, batting and heavy scotch-brite like things in a plastic file box. It worked fine. When we put in the new, larger "real" pond last August, we bought a Savio system that included a much larger biological filter. We had to watch the nitrogen levels for awhile, but once it kicked in, we haven't had to touch it other than cleaning the sediment filter every once in awhile. Some source of oxygenation is also needed; either a fountain or a falls to keep the fish healthy.
---

Joe, nice job on the falls!

[Jim DeLaney]

I have the prefilter that screws to the pump. Do I need to have the pump/waterfall running 24/7 or can I turn it off at night. Think we're gonna stick with the goldfish for a while. The pond is "Nuts deep" accordin to John...LOL


You could turn the waterfall off at night, I suppose.

Mine has been running constantly for the past year. This past Winter was mild enough that I kept the waterfall running all winter. Previously - (2004/5 winter) I took the pump out from November till mid-April. When it's running, I only shut it down long enough for filter cleaning/maintenance. Otherwise, it's 24/7

Your depth sound about right to me...

[Ian Abraham]

Do I need to have the pump/waterfall running 24/7 or can I turn it off at night.

The fillter / aeration lets you keep more fish in the same size pond or tank. If you dont stock the pond heavily then turning the filter off at night wont hurt.
Start out with a dozen or so little goldfish, the 'normal' comet types seem hardier than the fancier strains. You can get them in silver, black, white and various spotty combinations as well to add a bit of interest. And it's not so bad if the heron eats a $1 goldfish, if they start snacking on the fancy $20 ones it gets painfull.
I once moved into a house that had an old swimming pool, no filters etc though. We didn't have the time / inclination to repair and maintain it, but it started breeding mosquitos. I just bought 6 little $1 goldfish and dumped them in. After a few weeks, no more mossie wrigglers and when I left that place we drained the pool and caught the 4 surviving fish, they were about 6 inches long and very healthy. No filters, no feeding, just bugs that flew into the pool and rain to replenish the water. Of course the pool could have held 100 fish, but then you would have to filter or change the water and feed them more. That must have been about 5 years ago, and my ex still has 3 of them in her new pond.
Of course our winters are a bit milder and we dont have racoons either:)

Cheers

Ian

[Vaughn McMillan]

...I get a lot of enjoyment from my little pond. Usually futz around with it a bit nearly every day.

Jim, if I had that pond (and that chunk of land to put it on), I'd find myself hanging around and futzing with it a lot too. Very pretty place to sit and ponder the world. You're a fortunate man. ;)

- Vaughn

[Joe Pelonio]

A waterfall or fountain breaking the surface also helps prevent mosquitos from breeding.

Goldfish actually don't need the aeration as much as other fish. I have our waterfall pump on a timer so that it comes on at 7am and goes off at 11pm, just to save electricity. Only once in 6 years did I have to unplug the pump in winter, normally the pond can be frozen over except right under the waterfall. That one year the hose froze so I had to leave it unplugged several days.

[Joe Tonich]

Thanks all, you've been very helpful. :D :D

Jim, I can see why you hang around your pond...it's beautiful. :D

Thanks again,

[Jim Becker]

We run our system 24/7 and it stayed on all winter, too. And I agree about using the inexpensive fish...they are quite hardy and will give a lot of satisfaction. And any preditor will most certainly zero in on any "expensive" fish first...must be a natural law! That's why we're down one Shebunkin and still have all four of the goldfish/comets from our original 15-for-a-buck feeder fish. Oh, plus one baby Shebunkin and one baby goldfish/comet that were bred from the bigger fish in the small, original pond. We left them in the little water over winter and they grew big enough not to be eaten by the larger fish. All are together now in this larger, pond...

[Frank Fusco]

Max growth of Koi is limited by pond size. In theory there is no limit to how big they can grow in the right environment. 40 pounders are not unusual in big ponds. They are eaten in Asian countries. In Japan, if an honored guest comes to ones home the best and most prized Koi (they are kept for generations and treasured) is killed and fed to the guest as a sign of respect. Taken out of a small pond and put into a larger one their growth will resume. Having Koi is considered a way to have good luck.

[Jim DeLaney]

Jim, if I had that pond (and that chunk of land to put it on), I'd find myself hanging around and futzing with it a lot too. Very pretty place to sit and ponder the world. You're a fortunate man. ;)

- Vaughn

Thanks, Vaughn. We 'retired' to this place in 2004. Fell in love with it at first sight! It had nearly everything we wanted - land, pond, gazebo, a nice shop building, and a fully finished basement for my wife's sewing studio. We couldn't be happier!

Here's another shot of the pond, showing more of the yard behind it. There's about fifty feet of lawn between the pond and the house. It's the 'featured view' from the dining room bay window...



<center><img src="http://www.jcdelaney.com/Pond2.JPG"></center><P>