Beaver Int. Lathe

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I posted this at the end of the "So Stu, what lathe" thread, but I guess in the hub-bub of this place is got missed, or you guys are ignoring me........ :eek: :rolleyes: ;) :D

When I went out to the Demo that the Far East Woodturners Society (FEWS) put on, by Mr. Jean-Francious Escoulen, I got to see the Vicmarc lathes up close and personal, and what Jean do AMAZING stuff with the VL-300.

While I was looking around the Lathe shop of the host, Mr. Sanno, who runs a sort of school, I saw this white lathe sitting there among the blue ones.....

http://ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/jfe_demo/beaver.jpg

This is the Beaver Lathe, it was designed by the fellows at Vicmarc, and then built by a company in Taiwan, so you get the Vicmarc design on the cheap. This particular lathe had been in use at the school for some time, and it has preformed flawlessly.

I had a good poke at it, and a mini test drive, and it is smooth as silk. Every thing moves on it very well, and locks in place nicely too.

The head swings out 90 degrees, with detentes at 3 or 4 spots (I think).

The motor is 200V with a variable speed controller, it has three pulleys to give you three ranges of speed....

1st pulley 10 - 1000 rpm (Ratio 1:3)
2nd Pulley 20 – 2000 rpm (Ratio 1:2)
3rd Pulley 30 – 3000 rpm (Ratio 1:1)

It really looks nice, and I could not believe how smooth it spins and such.
Everything seems to be where it should be, and the toolrest and the tailstock movement is super smooth.

The on/off switch, speed controller box is on a magnet, so it can be moved around.

Best part...?

190,000 yen ($1730) delivered, with a warranty etc. For comparison, Craft Supplies has only the non-swing head listed, they want $1299 for it,
(plus shipping and tax) the price I get includes shipping, and tax, for the swinghead.

The new DVR-XP is going to be over $3000, plus shipping....

My buddy with the DVR was also there, and he had a good look at it, and he thought it would be just as good as the DVR,
maybe even better in some respects.

It looks and feels REALLY well made.

You see, this is why I wanted to go to this meeting :D

I'm just about sure this is going to be the one, out of fairness, I'll wait for the quote on the DVR-XP, but I found out that one of the reasons the DVR-XP is more expensive in Japan is that the Teknatool guys gave the one dealer here exclusive rigths, thus he has no competition. I have to admit, I do not like that.

So what do you guys think, has anyone else had the chance to see this lathe up close and personal?

I think they even have an outrigger for it, and there is a bed extension that will give my 39" between centers if I want it (20" now).

Looking forward to your responses.

Cheers!

[John Hart]

So...what's the HP on that puppy? It looks very well made. Hope to see it in the dungeon soon!;)

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Nice looking lathe Stu. Really looks well made. Is it considered a Midi?

[Terry Quiram]

Stu

Looks like it has a 12" swing. Is there a recommended outboard size limit? Is the VS 0-1000, 0-2000, 0-3000 or is the VS just 3 speed ranges. 1000 is much too fast for sanding on the lathe. With the size limit of your shop this lathe looks like a perfect fit. Just remember the lathe will be the cheapest part of your new obsession.:D

Terry

[Jeff Horton]

Two things jumped out at me when I looked at this lathe. What is the max dia? Looks small to me, 12"? Outboard turning doesn't look to promising because of the motor in the way an no way to pull up a tail stock.

Of course you mentioned the head would rotate. With the motor that doesn't look possible but I know you know what your talking about.

Quick story. I had a Craftsman tube lathe like yours. I turned one large out of round piece of spalted hackberry on it (years ago) and it caused soiled undergarments. I didn't have a stand like yours and it literally tried to walk across the garage! I was to scared to get close enough to turn it off. I finished the bowl even so. It was a huge amount of work and I only finished it because it was gift for LOML. I said that was it, no big bowls for me!

Move forward 10 years. Now I have a good lathe, a chuck, good tools and more knowledge. I was self taught and there was no Internet help at that time. I have learned so much off the forums the past couple of years. Now in just the few months I have been back at turning I see the limits of 12" dia. Just last week I was wishing I had more swing.

Whatever you guy, make sure the swing is enough. I bought mine with plans in my head for an outboard turning rig. Just never thought I would want it this quick!

[Ernie Nyvall]

Never seen one, but that does look good Stu. Is it a 12"?

Ernie

[Andy Hoyt]

Ummm, let's see.

He told us he was buying both of those auction machines.

He told us he was buying a dvr.

What makes us think he's gonna buy this thing?

[Bernie Weishapl]

Stu you do what ya gotta do but I would be concerned with the 12" swing which is probably more like 11 1/2". I would also be concerned about outboard turning and have seen the motor is only 1 hp. I just hope in a year or two you will have no regrets going bigger. Just my $1.298. Best of luck in your decision Stu.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

All great questions and comments, thanks.

Andy, I just fed the vortex to the tune of $200 for some tools, so get off my back :mad: ;) :D

I tell you, I was set on the DVR-XP, but, after seeing this machine, up close and personal like, I have changed my mind.

It also helps that my buddy, who has a DVR 3000, was really impressed with the Beaver. He admitted that the DVR 3000 is more of a spindle work machine, and limited bowl work, even though it swings out.

The Beaver, the whole motor and the headstock turn as one unit, it is VERY solid.

I'm sorry I did not get a pic of it.

The guy who sells it says that the Vicmarc outrigger unit should bolt right on, but I figure I can make something myself, that will be up to the Job.

This is the blurb from Craft Supply, for the non-swing version they sell.



The Beaver features 12" capacity swing and 20" between centers with quality cast iron construction throughout. Precision machining of the headstock, tailstock and tool rest ensure a lifetime of smooth operation and dependable performance. The Beaver lathe is an exceptional value as it has many of the same features found on professional lathes but at a fraction of the price.

The 1 h.p. Vector drive system provides maximum horsepower for even the most demanding woodturner. Used by Professional Australian woodturners, the Vector drive has a reputation for performance and reliability providing high torque throughout the entire speed range. The Vector variable speed drive system requires 220v 1 phase power and is supplied with an inverter for "plug and play" operation. Also included is a remote on/off switch that can be moved to any position on the lathe for convenient operation.

It is also reversible.
The swing over the bed is 12", but honestly with the trees I get here in Japan, I'm not likely to be swinging any 24" bowls.

There are three speed ranges via the pulleys, and then the VS is dialed in to whatever you want.

I think the 20 - 2000 RPM would be good for most stuff.

I think that if you saw it up close, you would be impressed.

Cheers!

[Michael Cody]

Like a MIDI lathe -- ie twixt a jet Mini and Jet 1642 ... but man CraftSupply sells the variable speed jet mini for 379$ US -- and the Beaver is $1699US w/less swing than a Jet 1642 and less HP but the Jet sells for only 1720$... not sure they will sell to many in the USA -- 1300$ more for 2" more swing and 1hp vs 1/2hp compared to the Jet Mini..

Of course in Nippon there you don't have as much choice. Compared to the Nova DVR-XP the Beaver is cheaper but the Nova gives you 1.75 HP, longer bed, 16" swing, 360dg head rotation, etc.. US Price 2199$ or so..

You can see the price differentials in the US are about the same as in Japan about 1500$ -- maybe a little less as you are talking the Beaver w/o a stand.

Now looking at the US spec's the Beaver is a hefty lathe @ 314lbs w/the stand or say probably 250+ w/o the stand. That is much heavier than any of the minis of course and about the same as most of 12" lathes in the US. Actually it's heavier than the Nova DVR-XP ..

I don't think you will go wrong either way, and I doubt you will be turning stuff soon that is bigger than 12" .. that is the only caveat I see. But it's hard to argue with 1300-1500$ in savings anytime... that is about 300-500$ per inch of swing :eek:

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks for the good info Michael.

The Jet 1642, is that essentially the same as the Delta machine as the Delta 46-756?

If it is, in at least specs, they want just a tick over $4000 for it hear, and they ask you to wait for the next container to come in... :eek:

I know the DVR-XP has more swing, but..... Well I've not gotten the quote from the guy here yet for the DVR, so I'll just see what happens.

Cheers!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I got the quote from the fellow selling the DVR-XP.

Local Guy
NOVA 3000DVR-XP
SUPERNOVA CHUCK #II
INSERT 1 1/4-8TPI $3309
EXTENSION 500MM: $300
CURVED TOOLREST: $55
Total $3664

Woodcraft;
1-1/4"-8 TPI RH Insert $24.99
TEKNATOOL SuperNova2 $199.99
HD Bowl Rest, 1" Shank $44.99
20" Bed Segment $199.99
Nova DVR XP Lathe $2,219.99
Total: $2,669.95

Now the local guy will deliver it and help me set it up, but really, I don't think there is much to do on the DVR-XP, it is touted as "Plug & Play"

The Woodcraft price does not include shipping, but my friend had his FedExed and that cost $500, I'm sure I could get it down to $300 with a slower method (Not like I don't have a lot to do anyways).

I guess it comes down to the question of the local warranty being worth $700 of my money, and I do not think it does.

I'm looking really hard at that Beaver.

Cheers!

[Allan Johanson]

Hey Stu,

This is a little OT-ish.....but I figured I'd mention that I have the Vicmarc VL175 (14"/40") with the 1.75HP motor. Two speed ranges (10-1000 and 30-3000), outrigger, swivel head. So it's the big brother to the Beaver.

What I want to say is I'm extremely happy with the Vicmarc VL175. Very happy! Smooth and well made.

I've read a bit about the Beaver and if it's made to the same quality level mine is then you'll be very happy.

If you want info on my outrigger like dimensions or construction details, drop me a line. I can e-mail you a ton of pics if you wish.

Cheers,

Allan

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Not OT at all Allan, thanks for the response.

Can you tell me how big a bowl you can turn on that outrigger with the headstock turned? Does it feell solid when doing so, or are you worried about launches? :D

I sure do like the Vicmarc stuff.

Can you take a few pics of the swivel head assembly?

Thanks so much!

Cheers!

[Allan Johanson]

Hi Stu,

I've got too much junk in the way to use the outrigger at the moment, so I haven't tried that part yet. But I've talked to folks who've used it and they love it. BTW, the main outrigger pole appears to be solid steel. Like I said, this is a very solid machine. Even the stand is made from 1/8" steel and the lathe came totally assembled and was lifted into my truck with a forklift under the upper shelf of the stand. It's no Oneway, but it's pretty darn beefy.

Clearance isn't going to be an issue. I think my lathe can swing a 30" diameter platter or bowl before folks tend to get freaked (I was reading some comments on the Oz forums). I'm going to buy the big Vicmarc chuck before swinging anything like that though. ;)

The distance from the lower outrigger support to the centerline of the headstock is about 26.5" so in theory you could swing a 53" platter on my lathe. I'm sure someone has tried it somewhere. :eek:

The swivel head moves the motor with the headstock. You simply pull up on the locking pin and spin the headstock. I think the detents are at 0*, 30*, 60* and 90* for my lathe, can't remember about the Beaver. You can see the motor move in these pics.

Cheers,

Allan

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Allan, that looks really good.

Solid steel.... :eek:

Man, that thing must weigh a ton!

Thanks for the pics, could I ask that you take one of the backside of the swivel part? :o

Sorry to be a pain.......but I'm good at it! :rolleyes:

The Beaver also has a locking cam for the swivel head, as well as the pin.

Thanks again Allan!

Cheers!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I just got a comparison of the VL175 and the Beaver from the Importer.



........................................Beaver B150SH...........VL175.
........................................(Swivel Head).........(Swivel Head)

Center Height .........................6 1/4"...................7"
Swing Over Bed.......................12 1/4".................14 1/4"
Distance betweeen Centers........19 5/8".................39 3/8"
Distance b.C. with Extention.......39 3/8".................N/A
Indexing..................................24 Divisions...........24 Divisions
Spindle Thread.........................M30x3.5mm.......... .M30x3.5mm
Headstock Spindle taper............No.2 MT................No.2 MT
Spindle Bearing........................Tapered Roller........Tapered Roller
Hole through H.S. Spindle..........15mm...................15mm
Hole through Tailstock Spindle....10.5mm.................10.5mm
Tool Post Diameter....................25.4mm (1")..........30mm
Variable Speed Range................10-1000(Ratio 1:3)..10-1000
.............................................20-2000(Ratio 1:2)..20-2000
.............................................30-3000(Ratio 1:1)..30-3000
Electric Motor AC 200V..............0.75Kw..................1.1kw
Electric V.S. Inverter.................0.75Kw..................1 .1kw
Electric Control........................Start/Stop/RPM........Start/Stop/RPM
Forward/Reverse......................Yes.................. .......Yes
Footprint................................39" (59") x 10"...........60" x 27.5"
Over all length..........................46" (66")..................68"
Net Weight..............................220 lbs.....................396 lbs
Weight with Extension...............290 lbs

Standard Accesssories
Face Plate...............................4"............................4"
Knock Bar...............................Yes............. ..............Yes
Spanner.................................Yes....... ....................Yes
Drive Dog................................Yes............ ..............Yes
Live Center.............................Yes............ ...............Yes
Owners Manual........................Yes................. ..........Yes
Cast Toolrest...........................8".............................6"
FP and Chuck Safety Ring..........Yes...........................option al
Front Turning Attachment..........Optional.....................Y es
Stand.....................................Optional ....................Yes

Price for FEWS Member.............$1550........................$3 270
Freight Charge........................included............ .........included
V.A.T....................................included. ....................included
I'm not saying the Beaver is as good as the VL175, but is the VL175 TWICE as good as the Beaver?

The VL175 has the stand as standard equipment, so if you take that off the weight, I do not think they are that far out on the weight of the actual lathe.
Yes the motor on the VL175 is more powerful.

For the money they want for the Beaver, adding in the extention bed, a good chuck and the front turning rig thing, I'm still going to be $1200 ahead of the game, and that is a whole lot of tools I can buy ;) :D

Can you see where I'm coming from?

I'm trying to arrange a full test drive very soon.

Cheers!

[Allan Johanson]

Thanks for the pics, could I ask that you take one of the backside of the swivel part? :o

Sorry to be a pain.......but I'm good at it! :rolleyes:
For you Stu, no problem! :D

Thanks for bringing up the infinite positioning for the swivel headstock on the Beaver. I was so excited when the beast got home my friends and I fired it up and started making shavings. Never read the last page of the manual where it showed the locking lever in place and to tighten it for locking the swivel at any point. I just figured the extra lever in the box was a spare for the tool rest since it's identical to that one. :o Cool! Now I don't have to fabricate anything. :D

Like I said before, if you want to build your own outrigger I can take detailed pics and measurements for you to see how this design works. Then you can work your usual magic with metal and come up with something better. It'll go on your website and then my friends who are thinking of making a similar version will benefit too. :cool:

I like the Beaver specs too. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that the quality - where it counts - is all there.

Cheers,

Allan

[Mike Ramsey]

I can think of a few things that the word "Beaver" could represent,
but I never would have thought of a lathe! Can't wait till you take
the Beaver thru it's paces and let us know the results.....

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Hey Allan, thanks so much!

That looks almost exactly like the swivel head of the Beaver.

I just noticed that you are in Surrey BC, my sister teaches grade school out there somewhere, and I lived there for a year while going to UBC, before moving onto the Campus (the commute sucked).

I'm originally from Kelowna.

Cheers!

[Michael Cody]

Stu -- I am back to the Beaver Int... man you are talking still 1200$ or more of difference, I can't see that being worth the extra stuff on the DVR.. I like the DVR, but you can buy a lot of tools and goodies for 1200+$ ... I would take the instant gratification route w/the Beaver and put the cash to other good uses.. You could buy some more metal working tools and make some of you own stuff right?? Just my way of thinking I guess. I know I compared them, but 1200$ is 1200$ and being the che... errr Frugal gent I am ... I mean saving 1200$ and still get the Beaver:eek:

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Ya it is a hard thing to figure out though.

I've been searching around the net, and I cannot find anything about this lathe, one guy in Israel, and the guy here in Japan that sells it.

I had some information come across my desk that there are problems with this lathe, no one would be specific, but, it seems that Vicmarc has washed their hands of it, and the other three major importers of lathes into Japan would not add it to their line of tools, no one in Europe would take it, and the stock left in Australia is being sold on clearance, so I think this is one I should miss..........:(

Back to square one.....


The only good news I got was that the New Nova 3000 is due in the fall, and the price is near $1450, maybe I'll just wait until then.

Oh well, the new tools have given the old C-man lathe a new life, they work REALLY well, and make the C-man lahte bearable for at least a little while longer.

Cheers!

[Barry Stratton]

Stu,

You definitely need a beer.

P.S. There a MT1 Spur Center sitting here, waiting for some face plates.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Got a whole shop full of beer, what I need is a good lathe at a not stuid price :D

So they sent just the spur and live center, but no faceplates yet?

Any ETA on the Faceplates?

Cheers!

[Allan Johanson]

Sorry to hear about the Beaver quality problems, Stu. That really sucks. I guess it's better to find out about that now compared to having it in your shop and finding out then. <sigh>

What about restoring an older lathe and making it cool? A friend of mine did an amazing job on an old Union Jubilee lathe so far and he's working on fabricating a tailstock for it at the moment. Our last project on this lathe was fabricating a banjo from scratch. Some steel and creative thinking came to the rescue.

You can find Randy at my home page in my profile. Post a question there and ask to see pics of his lathe. You'll be inspired and then you'll definitely be back to square one with this lathe shopping stuff. :D

BTW, if you ever get back to Surrey to visit your sister, let me know.

Allan

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I seriously looked at making my own lathe, the problem is, the parts are just not around here in Japan. If I was in the US or Canada, yeah, in a heartbeat, but even finding a machine shop to do basic stuff is hard.

One of the importers here has a VL300 on sale, usually 550,000 yen ($5000) it was used as a demo model in his showroom, he says it is as good as new, and has a full warranty, he wants 385,000 yen ($3500) for it delivered. I don't have that much money to throw at a lathe right now, but I will by the end of summer, so I'm going to ask him if I can put a deposit on it, and pay the balance later.

Truly, this would be the last lathe I'd ever need to buy. I'd have to rearrange part of my shop...but hey, that seems to be a never ending battle anyways!

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/lathe/jfe_demo/jfe_daugher.jpg
Here is a pic of the same model of lathe at the recent Demo I went to, with Mr. Jean-Francious Escoulen and his daugher Emily, just as the demo began.


***********************************
Specifications
Centre Height....................300mm (11 7/8")
Swing over Bed..................600mm (23 5/8")
Distance between Centres...500mm (19 5/8")
Indexing...........................24 Holes
Spindle Threads.................M30 x 3.5
Headstock Bored................No. 2MT
Spindle Bearing..................Tapered Roller
Electronic Variable Speed
with Digital rpm indicator
Infinitely Variable 30 -3000 rpm
Hole Thru Headstock...........15mm (5/8")
Tailstock Spindle.................No. 2MT
Hole Thru Tailstock Spindle...10.5mm (3/8")
Motor...............................1.5kw (2hp?)
Forward & Reverse Switch....Yes
Emergency Knee-Bar Stop....Yes
Wide Footprint...................700mm (27.5")
Hollow Ballastz...................Two sides
Net Weight........................350kg (770 lbs):eek:
***********************************

As you know, there is an outrigger for the lathe, and there is a bed extention too, if I wanted to turn long things (might just make that part).

Got to think about this one. If I were to buy this VL300, man, I'd never have to upgrade (One could hope eh?) :D

Heck of a deal, don't you think?:confused:

Cheers!