The Leigh D4: my experience

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Gotta say I’m disappointed with the Leigh D4.
I am very interested whether others have seen the phenomena I am experiencing or if this is me having done something wrong.
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The jig is way too flimsy. Additionally it’s got issues with squareness that it shouldn’t have were it engineered correctly ( for the List price they want that is).
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The L brackets that hold the Finger Guide assembly are made of the same silly crummy weak Zink alloy as are the fingers.
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I have seen that particular casting alloy before on fairly cheap handles and other low stress applications. Leigh changed the Zink ratio and calls it a “proprietary alloy” (WOOO HOO) which, is the same as a cook adding more salt to an existing dish he saw in a book and then claiming to have created the dish. Leigh uses this alloy for the following reasons:
<!--[if !supportLists]-->1.)<!--[endif]-->It’s cheap and easy
<!--[if !supportLists]-->2.)<!--[endif]-->The Technology is simple and lends itself to zero or few secondary operations as it doesn’t shrink when cooling in the mold and can be cast with fine surface finishes.
<!--[if !supportLists]--><!--[endif]-->3.)The alloy has a tendency to be somewhat self lubricating.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->4.)<!--[endif]-->Did I mention cheap and easy
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The problem with the L bracket and its receiver is simple: It’s not robust and it does not hold a square. It isn’t intend to hold a square. Leigh leaves that issue to the consumer to retrofit to the jig. The L bracket relies on strength and square from a consumer supplied support board. However, I have found that this is a dicey issue as when I clamp the support board in after or before lowering the finger guides down, the support board is kicked out of square by the clamp bar and holds the fingers slightly out of square with the board being cut.
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I also observed that if the board to be cut is placed in the jig with a lousy few ounces of force it too will lift the guide finger assembly and cause it to lie out of square.
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This is a problem because the router must follow the finger guides along two planes. There is the horizontal plane where the guide bushing in the router contacts the finger guides but, there is also the plane of the Z axis which should be dead flat and square to the work piece and not have any ramp or slope or the cutter will describe an out of square angle on the workpiece.

The result is that when I rout the Pins, the bottom of the cut out is out of square in a way that places a noticeable gap on the outside of the joint when assembled. I can sort of kind of compensate for this by doing the following:
<!--[if !supportLists]-->1.)<!--[endif]-->Do not apply clamping pressure to the support board letting it float free.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->2.)<!--[endif]-->Be ever so gentle when inserting the work piece into the jig for fear of deflecting he finger guides.
<!--[if !supportLists]-->3.)<!--[endif]-->Be ever so ginger with the router not allowing the weight of the router to bear fully in the finger guides.
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These problems would not manifest had Leigh invoked a more robust design ethos.
The finger guide assembly really ought to be heavier and the L brackets should be heavy steel and or cast and ought to raise and lower in some form of snug bearing ( bronze bushings would do nicely) instead of the stupid sloppy rectangular slot Leigh uses.
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[Ben Roman]

I'll Buy it.... Let me know.


Ben ;)

[Jason Tuinstra]

Cliff, I can't say that I've ever heard this complaint before nor have I really heard any other complaints about this jig other than that it is a jig :p and that the learning curve can be steep - though I never found this to be true.

I have had a D4 for many years and have used it extensively. I get some gaps at points, but that's woodworking. As far as jigs go, IMHO, this is the best jig on the market. I have never had a problem with the quality or lack thereof of the materials. It's held up just fine. I'm simply a hobbyist, but it's served my needs perfectly. Until I get better with my LN saw, I going to keep reaching for the D4.

Sorry to hear that you've had such a bad/disappointing experience.

[Jim Davenport]

Gosh Cliff. I've had my jig for years. It was originally a "D-3". I've upgraded to the D-4 style. I've never had the problems you've encountered.
I've found that once you've set the support brackets down on the wood, everything is pretty rigid. You need to make sure that the pieces are tight against the stops.
If you still have problems, call Leigh @1800 663 8932. They're great with any questions you have.
I had a question about the new scales, when I upgraded. They were very helpful. They have that Canadian down home type of friendliness;)
good luck, and be nice when you call.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Yah, I should probably call 'em.
They outta be the experts.

I was truly shocked by the things I identified as weaknesses. I really exepected a more robust tool.

When I assembled it I was sort of suspicious of them though.

It does repeat nicely when the guides are flipped and even when the work piece is taken out and re-inserted for another pass, and it does adjust as advertised.
I was impressed at that.

That annoying gap is unsightly and hard to rationalize away. I made several passes ensuring the work was square and true. Same problem I could control it, sort of, by doing what I said but, not entirely.

[Tom Jones III]

Sounds like something is wrong. I don't get any of those problems and I expect a lot out of my tools.

The D4 is a lot like that saying about democracy being the worst form of govt, except for all other forms.

[Charles McKinley]

Is your wood flat? A cupped board could cause this problem.

Jim, why did you "upgrade" the scales? The D3 style have no paralax that can pose a problem with the newer ones. Leigh suggested I stay with the D3 style when I called.

[Russ Massery]

Wow, I'd have to say that these complants you have are a first. I've never had any of your issues with the D-4. I'm by far no expert with it but never heard or had any of these problem. I would contact Liegh and discuss your "issues". :confused:

[Carl Hill]

I'm with you fellers. I've had my D-3 upgraded to a D-4 for about 5 years and have never experienced any of these issues. There is a learning curve, so maybe give it a little longer.

[Chris Rosenberger]

I have had my 1258R-24 Leigh jig for for over 15 years & never thought of it as flimsy. I have added the updates over the years si it is now a like the D4s. In January I bought one of the last D4s & do not see any difference between the 2 jigs. I have made hundreds of drawers with my jig and have not had any problems after I learned to use it correctly.
There is a learning curve to the Leigh jig. It is not plug & play. I would suggest that you put the jig away for a couple of weeks & spend time studying the manual. Things will look different when you come back to the jig.

[Bill Sampson]

Cliff,
My first response upon reading your thread was "total surprise". I have owned the D-4 since 2000 and cannot relate to any of the deficiencies you write about. Any problems I faced with this tool were failures on my part to set up correctely.
I'm sure Leigh will work with you to satisfy your concerns; from my standpoint they have been a great support of their product.

Bill Sampson, Richmond

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Well I just got off the horn with the guy from Leigh. We chatted a while as I crawled over the jig. Nice guy. Toronto accent. It's sexier on women.

He was flummoxed.
He had a couple ideas and wanted me to run a square across the thing in a few ways including with boards clamped in.

According to him, a tiny cup in the lumber won't produce this effect. a serious twust or length of the grain cup might but that's not the case in this instant event.

The ostensible learning curve is not an issue. Honestly I can't ficure out why this jig has a reputation for a learnign curve. It is an entirely straight forward bit of hardware. The manual is a tad longer and more convoluted than it needs to be which may make for the appearance of complexity but if it does it is mere appearance. The thing isn't complex at all.

Producing three dimensional Hypoid Sinusoidal cam lobes using a Bridgeport, a rotary table, an indexing head, a dual plane sine plate, and a surface grinder is complex. This jig however is not.

So then this is what he proposed:
Build up an edge of the the upper rear extrusion with some masking tape and see if that makes a difference. Run it a while and if indeed that helps, then it may be the extrusions got wracked out of true a little.

[Tom Hintz]

I also am very surprised to hear of problems with the Leigh jig. I have been using my D4 for going on five years and the only problems I have found were trqaced back to cupped boards, irregular widths or ends that I only thought were square but weren't quite.
Since posting my review of the D4 I have gotten literally hundreds of emails from satisfied users, none of which are having these problems.
I certaily would touch bases with Leigh, as has been suggested. They have a very good reputation for taking care of customers.

[Brent Smith]

I'm another that is surprised by your findings. I've been using Leigh jigs for more than 5 years and have always found them to be well built tools. Is it possible you're applying too much pressure against the jig while making your cuts or securing your work pieces? I set mine up when I got it and it has remained Square to this day with quite a bit of use. I guess you have some valid points in saying that a better quality material could have been used in some of the parts, but, I've never seen a need for it.

[CPeter James]

Did you look at Akeda? Sturdy, repeatable, easy learning curve.

CPeter

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Is it possible you're applying too much pressure against the jig while making your cuts or securing your work pieces?
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Yah Pressure is clearly an issue. I may be leaning on it a tad hard. While I was chatting the Leigh guy up I had an indicator & a Steel Square on it observed that the thing would twist all over creation if I leaned on it too hard (read: not too hard at all). Given it’s construction (and the poor Leigh guy admitted it on the phone to me) much pressure at all when setting the work in place is going to throw things off. The Leigh guy didn’t actually want to say it that way preferring to say that it is “intended that you just place the work against the stops and fingers.” Emphasis was placed on the word “just” as though one could feel the wings of a butterfly as it alights on a flower. HA.
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Did you look at Akeda? Sturdy, repeatable, easy learning curve. CPeter
Yah the Akeda is too short I wanted a longer one. Besides there is no learning curve to the Leigh that I can discern. 15 minutes with the manual while watching a rerun of Stargate and I had it down.

As part of my education I had to read terribly (and quite deliberately) obscure difficult dense material at the rate of about 200 - 400 pages per night for 3 years straight. One becomes adjusted to absorbing the printed page. Hell’s bells “part” I say?? I was originally a seminarian, that was a beast of a haul too. READ, READ, READ, I though my eyes were going to fall out.

In a former life I was a machinist toolmaker. My trade put me through under-grad & grad school. Da Leigh jig ain’t got nuthin wots cin bees tecknoglogglikally complexifyin fer no MaCheeNist.

[Bill Stoffels]

Peter how is the Akeda, I was looking at a Leigh but now I am "LEARY"

[Michael Pfau]

Cliff, I have had mine for about 3 years, and love it. Not flimmsy at all. You should call them. The manual is the best I have ever seen. Good Luck

[M. A. Espinoza]

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Yah Pressure is clearly an issue. I may be leaning on it a tad hard.

Not that this makes all the difference, but what routers are you using with it. I've found that the lighter/shorter the better with the jig. Balance and control are better with PC 690 and down.

Get too tall or too heavy and things feel wobbly. I've recently picked up a Makita 3606 to try. A PC 100 seems like it would be good as well as maybe even the Bosch Colt with a larger baseplate. Not sure if the Colt would have enough power but dovetailing doesn't need much more than 1 HP usually.

Also, the working height seems to affect the control or at least the perception of it. I set mine so the router base ends up between chest and elbow level.

Just throwing some thoughts out.

[Jim Davenport]

Well I just got off the horn with the guy from Leigh. We chatted a while as I crawled over the jig. Nice guy. Toronto accent. It's sexier on women.
.
Actually it's British Columbian;)

[Seth Poorman]

I like my 24" PC omni jig ! Easy to set up ! I can bust out drawers pretty darn quick.....:D Never tried the D4, :o Thought about buying the D4
just to compare, and keeping the one I like the most and selling the other !

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Not that this makes all the difference, but what routers are you using with it.

a PC 690
Working height is currently a test bench such that I can access it however I need.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

If it's the chatter about a learning curve that gets to you IGNORE IT. There is no appreciable learning curve with the Leigh.

It's just not hard to use at all. It's not too finiky, and it is very repeatable. Unless you don't think you'll ever need more than 12" re-think the leigh or the PC omnijig.

Other than the length issue I've seen the Akeda in action and it's really a nice gadget.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I called Leigh (see above in detail). They guy suggested I put masking tape on half of one of theextrusions to create a cant to the set of the workpiece.
I did. It worked. The gap went away.

That means that there is an angle there that should not be.
Now I gotta figure whether the thing is wracked out of true or what.