Another one kicks my backside!

[Jeff Horton]

A nice large piece of pecan. I like the bowl but I could not sand the all the marks out (again). I thought I had that problem under control but rears it's ugly head once again.

Once I started to sand a couple of gouge marks started to show. So I returned the outside and thought I had it looking pretty good. I started sanding again. Still had ugly marks and end grain that would not clean up.. I thought I could sand them out with some 50 grit but nothing worked.

Took my ROS to it and improved it but it still have spots that would just not clean up. Makes you want to toss up your hands and just do flat work sometimes.

Here are the photos and they look pretty good. Except for that ring inside nothing really shows, But that ring is from when I reversed it turn the bottom and just haven't tried to do anything about it.

If you look close you can see the marks. Maybe tomorrow I will get some closeups and someone can point me in the right direction. I am at the point I am thinking of buying a sanding disk for the drill. Maybe when I get one of these I can sand out the turning marks that can't seem to turn out.

Just frustrated. Maybe its the piece of wood.

[Don Baer]

Jeff,
I am far from being an expert but, I would chuck that puppey up and hit it with some 80 grit a the lowest speed I could. Then follow it up with other grits (100,220,320) and I am sure the ring would go away.

Sure hope this helps cause the bowl is great.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Jeff, that is one great bowl, I can see a LARGE serving of Pecan Icecream would fit right in there :D (Hey Mods, we need a "YUMMY ICECREAM Emocon!!)

What tools are you using on the bowl?

In Bill G's fine DVD, he shows various ways to get rid of them marks and tear out, you might just need the Nuclear option :eek:

I'm not much use either, as I'm just getting my first bowl gouge, but there are times when even sandpaper won't get the tear out and marks out.

May I be so bold as to suggest not worrying about it right now, leave it as is, move on to something else, then when you have more answers, I bet you will be able to return it to the lathe and return it to your satisfaction.

Again, great bowl!

Cheers!

[Dennis Peacock]

Jeff,

Nice looking bowl. The form is good and your did fine on it. Endgain is the toughest part of getting a bowl to look and feel clean. Sanding is an important part of making what you turned to look like it's begging to be held and touched. You may want to get a 2" or a 3" Hook-n-Look for your electric drill and then get some sanding disks. I don't like the star sanding disks as the backing on them have a tendency to come off prematurely. At least mine did, so I went back to standard sanding disks. I will power sand starting at 80 grit and get the wood clean with the 80 grit. You'll have to sand the endgrain areas with the lathe Off and keep the pad moving around the areas that require additional sanding. Then move to 120 grit and do the same, then 180 grit, 220 grit, 400 grit and then 600 grit, if you so choose to go that high. Once you get past the 120 grit? The power sanding actually goes pretty quickly as all you are wanting to do from there is to refine the scratch pattern on the wood surface. When sanding the inside of the bowl? I've found it easier and better for me if I sand from the center towards the outter rim of the bowl from the middle of the bowl down to around the 4 O'Clock position as you near the outter rim of the bowl. Just experiment around with it and see what works well for you.
You can also try wetting the wood with some mineral spirits and sand it wet, as the MS will help soften the wood fibers some and can make it sand cleaner faster.

One of the key points of sanding that I've learned is a lite touch with the sandpaper. Too heavy a touch and you dull the paper quickly and you leave deep sanding scratches in the wood that requires more sanding to get them out. DAMHIKT.!!!!!! I still sand by hand on the lathe with the wood spinning a lot of the time. I'll also break out my ROS and sand the outside with it to help get the exterior sanding done quicker and easier on "me". :D

The 2" and 3" sanding pads for your drill will also help make shorter work of sanding inside the bowl. One thing to remember on the Hook-n-Loop pads while sanding? Heat will eventually cause the plastic hooks to fail and then your disks won't stick to the pad very well any more. I've ruined a couple that way and it's just from applying too much speed and pressure while sanding.

Sanding for me requires time and on some pieces I do? It may require the bowl to be on the lathe for 3 nights of sanding. Pull up a padded stool, have some sandpaper ready and turn on the lathe. Remember to sand with the bowl spinning towards you and then away from you (if your lathe will run in reverse). This also helps to get the wood surface looking the way you want it to faster. I learned this when I got my new lathe that will run forward and reverse. Stop the lathe often to check your progress.

When I post my next "how-to" thread, I'll be covering the sanding and finishing part of bowl turning as part of that thread.

I'm not a Bill Grumbine, Travis Stinson, Jim Ketron, nor a John Hart....but I like sharing what I've learned from others as well as through peraonl experiences.

Hope this helps a little.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Jeff, I think the bowl looks great so don't get discouraged. I'm just a new guy but if I may, let me share what Im learning. I was having the same problem with gouge marks until I read Ray Keys book. He says in short that when the tooling is done properly there should be very little sanding to do. I probably still have to do more than what he meant, but I haven't been at this for years either. I started using a scraper after my gouge work and wow what a difference. I must confess however, the scraper has not been an easy tool for me to learn and I still have a long way to go. I ended up destroying a number of items trying to learn the right technique as I would find my scraper catching and ruining the item. I would recommend Ray's book as it has been very helpful to me.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

When I post my next "how-to" thread, I'll be covering the sanding and finishing part of bowl turning as part of that thread.

I'm not a Bill Grumbine, Travis Stinson, Jim Ketron, nor a John Hart....but I like sharing what I've learned from others as well as through peraonl experiences.
Dennis please don't think my comment to Jeff in any way discounts, in my mind, what you have said in this complete post. I for one look forward to all your posts because I get so much great info. This one helps me tremendously. Thank you for that and keep them coming.

[Jim Davenport]

I'll agree, that's a great looking bowl. I'm still just a rookie, but I'm learning with every piece.
They say we learn by our mistakes. Well, I'm rapidly getting real educated.;)
someone here said use sand paper like someone is paying for it. The last cherry bowl I did had bad tearout. I think I sanded on that forever. Patience is the key.
After watching Bill's video a bunch of times, I'm trying to get a good shear cut with a bowl gouge. So far the outside of a walnut bowl I'm working on looks pretty good. Of course "sharp tools" are a must!
Good luck.:)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jeff.........Nice bowl.......Marks......well they'll come out with sanding. End grain tearout..........right now that is my big enemy! I've sanded until I thought of buying some 3M stock. Go to finish and there it is! Endgrain tear out.............I have one more bowl blank glued up and I hope to work real hard with some new techniques on end grain tear out. Again...nice bowl! Don't be to hard on yourself.........it takes time and experience! Keep at it!

[Tom Jones III]

I've only been turning for a dozen bowls or so, but I think you need to back up and determine the root cause rather than looking for better sanding methods.
* Is your bowl gouge sharp?
* Do you get ribbons when you are cutting with the bowl gouge or do you get dust? If you are getting dust then stop and figure out how to hold the tool so that you are cutting cleanly.
* Try for a few long strokes with the tool rather than many short cuts.
* You don't mention scrapers, have been using a scraper? They will cover over a multitude of sins.

Keep at it. There is nothing that will help so much as try bowl after bowl after bowl in rapid succession.

[Jeff Horton]

I shouldn't post when I am so disgusted.:o

This morning I was looking at the bowl and it really is a nice bowl. Just has a couple of areas that are not up to my standards. But I also remember that last one that did this to me and this is MUCH better than that bowl so that means I am getting better. It just takes time and practice. I don't mind the practice, I just hate the mistakes that I can't seem to fix.

[John Miliunas]

Well, FWIW Jeff, I've had more than my share of bowls "like that". Don't despair! A couple of them, I've kept working w/sandpaper until they were "salvaged" but, a couple others I have left exactly the way they came off the lathe! Why? As the guys have iterated and you yourself did, it's a great example of your learning progress!!! :) Keep it hanging around and the next time, your "goal" will be to get the one you're working on to look like this one before you ever touch sandpaper to it! :D Before you know it, you'll be using less and less paper! Now, even the best turners will tell you that the 80 grit gouge is one of your best tools when it comes to certain wood flavors but, for many other woods, minimal sanding will be required once you get your lathe chisels working for you! :) But, even after having said that, I still really like that bowl! The form itself is great and it's a super looking chunk 'o wood! Carry on, my friend...You're doing just fine! :) :cool:

[Reed Gray]

One of my epiphanies in woodturning came from a Soren Berger demo. I have always been able to get the outside of the bowl a lot smoother than the inside. Well, Soren was turning the inside of a bowl. He started the cut, then dropped the hand that was holding the tool on the tool rest, and turned to the audience chatting merrily while proceeding with the cut (keeping eye contact with the audience, not with the bowl) using one hand on the gouge. I am going "hey, you can't do that, that is dangerous, that, that.... hey, that works pretty good!" His point was that all of the control comes from your hand that is on the handle, push gently with that hand. You don't push with both hands. When you do use both hands, you tend to force it, rather than let the tool do all of the work. Pushing harder will cause more of the rings, and bruises. I swear, that there have been times that I have sanded almost all the way through a bowl trying to remove the rings with no success. Pressure will cause bruising. Another thing, is on your gouge, you should round off the bottom of the face that you grind (the top is the part that you cut with). This sharp square edge will also leave marks. This is especially so on the inside (concave) of the bowl, and not so much so on the outside of the bowl.
Of course, like my kung fu teacher said when I asked am I doing this right yet teacher.... 10,000 more times. But teacher, that's what you said last time. He just smiled with that 'perhaps there is hope for you yet look', and walked away.
robo hippy

[Dick Strauss]

Jeff,
It looks like your gouge might be "bouncing" a bit from the void. I can't tell for sure. Try turning it at a faster speed so that the gouge doesn't have time to try to dig into the void before it gets to the other side. You can also sand down the trailing edge of the void with the ROS (see below). Don't forget to sharpen tools before your last pass...


As the bowl is mounted (headstock on left)

---------- (sand this edge by hand/machine)
void
----------(leading edge as it rotates)

[Harvey M. Taylor]

Hi Jeff,
Cant help you with the sanding, but I have a suggestion. When you finish the bowl to your liking , take a drill and drill holes on each side of the split like shoelaces on your shoes. Then, get some shoestring or leather strings and 'lace the crack up' like a shoe is laced.Just a thought. I have one similar to yours, and that is what I plan to do. Adds a nice touch. Ol Harv.