Just set up my new Delta 50-760

[George Carion]

All my tools now have 4" dust collection connectors. Would there be any benefit to running 5" pipe around my small 1 garage shop or should I stick with 4"?

For the record, any 5" pipe would need to drop down to 4" when connected to my planer and jointer. I could easily rig up a 5" port on my table saw. My band saw already has a 5" port (which I was going to step down to 4").

If someone had told me that I would be excited about dust collection a year ago I would have thought them mad. I should post a pic of my workshop.
:rolleyes:

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

That depends on the CFM in the sustem. If you are pulling enough, a larger main duct is going to increase flow due to less turbulence. However, if the system can't move enough air to keep the detritus flowing it'll settle in a low spot and clog the duct up.

[George Carion]

It's rated by Delta at 1200 CFM. It's a 1.5hp unit. I'd guess that it would only be able to do 1200 CFM with a very strong tail wind. It as 2 4" ports and 1 5" port.

[Bob Dodge]

Hi George,

Congratulations on your new dc. That lil' Delta packs a big punch for the money. Nice filter too.

You can get surprisingly good performance from this dc, as long as you design your ducting efficiently. You don't want to be running 4" pipe to machines that require more than roughly 350-400 cfm. This is especially true for flex-hose. Place your dc close to your largest source requirement machines, like a table-saw with an overarm blade-cover. You should have little or no trouble pulling 800+ cfm at that tool, if the ducting is properly done. If you can provide a list of your machines, port-sizes, etc, as well as a floor-plan of some sort, I can make a few sugestions that might help.

You should be able to use a reasonable length of 6" main, along with 5" drops to some of your larger requirement machines, like a planer, or jointer.

Bad design includes unnecessary use of elbows, incorrect pipe-diameters, unnecessary use of flex-hose, following the periphery of the room with a single main, etc. The most common cause for poor air-flow performance with any dc, is poor duct design.

Bob

[George Carion]

Tool list:
- The main tool is an older Delta contractor's TS. Right now it has a 4" port at the bottom with an open back. I can close the back in slightly, but not much.
- Delta JT360 jointer with a 4" port. I think this one needs to stay 4".
- Delta 22-580 planer with a 4" port. Needs to stay 4".
- Delta 22-something 14" band saw. Has a 5" port now.

<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:12pt; height:12pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\gcarion\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip _image001.gif" o:href="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/wink.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]--> The tall white thing in the back of the garage next to the dust collector is my kiln;). Looks just like a refrigerator. I'm not sure how much freedom I'll have in moving this stuff around.


Thanks for the advice!

[Bob Dodge]

George,

A 4" pipe and hood, will pretty-well clear all of your machines of waste entering that hood. What that small hose won't do, is move enough of the surrounding air, and it's floating dust-cloud generated by your hi-speed cutters. You need a larger capacity hose to move that surrounding air-mass, within a reasonable horsepower range.

You're dc can move as much as 925 cfm, as long as resistance is kept in the 3" static-pressure range. That means a hose that's not so big that velocity inside that hose falls below acceptible waste-transport velocity. Your filters have to stay clean as well, or that suction pressure will drop. What you need is a pipe that will provide enough waste-transport velocity, and you also have to allow for that pipe's suction-pressure to drop as the filter loads.

Your dc will move the most air with a large diameter pipe, but, as you lengthen that large diameter pipe, you add resistance, and that in turn reduces the airflow. You don't want to drop much under 3500 fpm. You have to strike a balance between your dc's suction capability, and your air-movement needs at the tool. If the dc doesn't have too much power, place it close to that largest air-requirement machine, and use the largest pipe diameter that you can generate the required velocity in.

In your particular shop, you could place the dc closest to your saw. That way, you have enough suction to run a 6" pipe to that saw. Now, you have a decision to make. Do you want to reduce that 6" pipe, to a 4" port under that saw? If so, you'll increase the resistance significantly, and reduce the dust-collection potential of that large duct.

Now, chances are the 4" port is fine to remove the waste inside that saw's cabinet and hood. So why would you wnat the extra "potential" anyway? Well, it's because you'll only remove the heavier waste in the base of that saw, and that will do nothing for you at the top surface of that saw. That's where an overarm blade-cover comes in handy. That will transform the waste and dust-collection at that tool.

Your short 6" run, can now be split with a 6x4x4 wye, and you can run a 4" branch to that saw's base, and the other 4" branch to that overarm blade-cover. Now, you'll flow your dc's full potential at that machine, without increasing the resistance dramatically.

What about the other machines???? Well, simply provide a "take-off" from that 6" main, very close to the dc. Run a 5" take-off and duct toward your other machines, then at each machine, you can run a 5" take-off and hose to each machine's 4" port. Use a reducer there. Actually, you would use an "enlarger". Both look identical, but the crimped end of that fitting goes down-wind. On an enlarger, the crimp is on the large end.

Use flex pipe ONLY where absolutely necessary. Flex has a LOT more resistance than smooth-walled pipe. Aslo, you want to avoid unnecessary turns and elbows. Use a nice long-radius turn whenever possible. Each elbow will have the same resistance as a given length of straight-pipe.At 4000 fpm, that can be the same as 12 feet of straight pipe, and more. Totally avoid the use of "T"'s as well.

Your duct-network, is like a road network. You only open one "road" at a time. You want to close those other un-used roads with blast-gates. Open only the blast-gate for your operating machine.

Can you simply run a 4" flex-pipe off that 5" main? Of course you can. But, you'll increase the resistance, and that will reduce the amount of air that you'll move at the tool. Your choice. A. Maximize my dc's "potential", or, B. "do it cheap and easy".

Bob
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PS. Your dc, with a clean filter, will pull 560 CFM through a 4" tapered hood, on the end of 60 feet of smooth-walled pipe. For every 90 degree elbow in your duct-run, reduce that 60 foot length, by 12 feet per elbow. Three 90 degree 5" elbows, and 24 feet of 5" straight pipe, has the same resistance as 60 feet of pipe with no elbows.

As your filter starts to get loaded, that suction-pressure will drop, and so will the airspeed in your pipes. You're moving less air. With a 5" horizontal pipe, you don't want to drop below 475 CFM.(just under 3500 FPM)

If you run your pipes along the floor rather than along the ceiling, you'll have more "reach". If you run along the ceiling, with drops to each machine, then you want to ensure you're flowing enough air to provide 4000 fpm in that riser. With a 5" riser pipe, you wouldn't want to drop below 545 CFM.(4000fpm)

[George Carion]

Bob,

I wanted to thank you for all the helpful advice. The 6" main with 5" branches works great. I'm not entirely satisfied with my setup though (no fault of your own). I purchased some duct from Lowe's and though it does the job it's not very durable. As long as I don't step on a pipe it'll work. Another part that bugs is the direction of some of my crimps. Some of the crimps point towards my tools so they're adding a bit of resistance. I had to work with the parts Lowe's had on hand. Oh well, it works fine for now.

The difference between running the 4" Y pipe that comes with the 50-760 and going with 5"+ is night and day. With the 4" the suction is pretty strong but the filter and collection bag don't fill all the way out with air. At 5" the thing actually creates a cyclone inside the collection bag! It's pretty cool.

Thanks again...

George