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View Full Version : LV Low Angle Block Plane Questions to Owners



Dan Bayliss
08-26-2003, 2:03 PM
This is for all of you experienced plane owners who wish to enlighten a novice who has just purchased his first "expensive" new plane and has some questions.

I just got my Veritas Low Angle Block plane in the mail yesterday. I have a couple old planes that have seen years of experienced use long before I owned them, but for comparison to new I have no reference. I confess that I debated over and over between going cheaper with a new Stanley and going more expensive to the Lee Nelson. Everything pointed me toward the Veritas in the end, based on the catalog and several reviews.

My question is one of expectation. In this price range should I expect that both side wings of the plane actually be 90 degrees to the sole? One of mine appears dead on while the other wing is off by 1/64 inch across its height; or in other words, about 0.65 degrees away from 90. To actually square this errant wing would likely leave a knife edge at the top of the wing since the sole needs to maintain its relationship with the other wing. Likewise, should I expect a true flat sole or is it normal for there to be very slight hollows along the midline at some points while flat at others? And again, I noticed that the plane iron has a slight central edge hollow on its back as I was honing the edge; it looks like a lot of work to waste away the back of the blade for a true flat surface- not to mention the loss of material.

Is this just normal "tune up" stuff that needs to be done at all price points? I do recognize the huge quality difference between the Veritas and Stanley LA block planes, but I was hoping and expecting a more refined starting point with the Veritas based on its catalog description.

Please help set me straight. What are your experiences and expectations in this price range?

Noah Alkinburgh
08-26-2003, 4:35 PM
Dan,

While I am no handplane expert, I have learned that all planes require tuning or fettling (sp?) I think they call it. The better the quality of the plane the less time it takes to get it going. I believe the sides should be 90 degrees but is most important for shooting miters....which with the low angle I would imagine you would want to do. The hollow grind on the blade is common and you should flatten that...it will make a difference. And you should take the time to flatten the bottom as well. These are normal things you have when you buy a plane. The only planes that I know of that are fully ready to use when received are the Shepard planes. They even include a shaving taped to it that your plane made before it was sent to you.

While the variation on yours may be worse than it should be, especially on the wing, overall I think you are looking at common things in tuning a hand plane.

If I am incorrect about any of this I am sure the wise and mighty Neanderthal Chiefs will come around with a club and thump me ;)

Noah

Richard Gillespie
08-26-2003, 4:42 PM
Be glad that you went for the Veritas plane, I thought that spending $40 plus on the record low angle plane would buy a quality product.

I had intended to use the plane for a shooting board. I found that neither side was perpendicular to the sole. I must say however, that flattening the sole and sharpening the blade weren't much of a problem.

I then went to the Veritas Low Angle Smoother to use on a shooting board. I am however left with the impression that you need a heavier plane for that purpose.

Someday I'm going to find that banana peel I stepped on before I started sliding down this slope.

Doug Littlejohn
08-26-2003, 4:49 PM
Dan said ,

My question is one of expectation. In this price range should I expect that both side wings of the plane actually be 90 degrees to the sole? One of mine appears dead on while the other wing is off by 1/64 inch across its height; or in other words, about 0.65 degrees away from 90.

I would call LV and tell them of your measurments. I expect that they will send you a new one right out. While they won't be tuned perfectly, I would presume that the sides should be square.

Jim DeLaney
08-26-2003, 4:52 PM
1. In this price range should I expect that both side wings of the plane actually be 90 degrees to the sole? One of mine appears dead on while the other wing is off by 1/64 inch across its height; or in other words, about 0.65 degrees away from 90.

2. should I expect a true flat sole or is it normal for there to be very slight hollows along the midline at some points while flat at others?

3. the plane iron has a slight central edge hollow on its back as I was honing the edge; it looks like a lot of work to waste away the back of the blade for a true flat surface- not to mention the loss of material.

Is this just normal "tune up" stuff that needs to be done at all price points?


1. Just over half a degree off is not bad. It would seem unlikely that you'll be using this block plane with a shooting board, so the out-of-square condition should have no bearing on the plane's use.

2. How deep are the hollows? Again, this is a block plane, not a dedicated smoother, so some small deviation is tolerable. So long as the sole is flat just in front of the mouth, you should have not problem.

3. NO NEW PLANE (not even an L-N) comes with a completely flattened, sharpened, and honed blade. You're expected to do that yourself. Even a new Hock blade will require quite a bit of flattening, then sharpening & honing before you can use it.

This is all 'normal' tune-up stuff for just about any new plane. In fact, the LV plane "out of the box" is orders of magnitude better than the Stanley or Record, and IMO, is at least the equal to the L-N.

Paul Barnard
08-26-2003, 5:45 PM
This In this price range should I expect that both side wings of the plane actually be 90 degrees to the sole?
Yes it should be square, ask for a replacement. The blade flattening and sole tweeking is normal.

Dave Anderson NH
08-26-2003, 9:46 PM
First off, you bought a great block plane. The Veritas isn't perfect, and it isn't as pretty as the Lie-Nielsen, but it is top quality, has great ergonomics, and is the best bang for the buck around. Yes, I own one and after the usual fettling, it is my block plane of choice. Jim and Paul make excellant points. If you want to use it for shooting exchange it, otherwise the .65 degree variance isn't important for any other application. Every plane and/or plane blade I have ever bought required some tuning to bring it up to my standards. My Clark & Williams 55 degree coffin smoother worked great out of the box taking walnut shavings of .001", but it worked even better after a little more polishing of the back and the bevel. The same was also true for Steve Knight's smoother and razee jointer I had on loan earlier in the Summer.

An important point to remember is that as you become more educated and more comfortable in tuning and using handplanes your standards rise. What seems perfect as a beginner ends up not even being marginally acceptable as your skills improve. To my way of thinking this is as it should be. Only in improving our skills and attempting to push the limits do we improve. I look back with amusement at my early complacency. Strive for perfection, you'll never get there, but what a hell of a great journey.

Doug Evans
08-26-2003, 11:03 PM
LV backs their stuff totally. So you can take it back and get a square one.

Unless shooting, it should be okay. I would do a flatness check of the sole in the general area though. Castings can move. For example, is the sidewall indicative of localized movement of the sole?

Cheers,

Doug

Rob Lee
08-27-2003, 7:46 AM
Dan -

Pls send it back - if you contact our customer service dept - we'll send out a new one today.

While we do use a CMM to spot check tolerances during a production run, we don't completely measure each plane. There are a number of things which can cause one side to be out, but it isn' t a common occurence. All it takes is a a paint chip, or a metal shaving under a casting when on the surface grinder....then again, sometimes the castings just "move" after grinding.

Cheers,

Rob Lee

Paul D. May
08-27-2003, 12:00 PM
My Clark & Williams 55 degree coffin smoother worked great out of the box taking walnut shavings of .001", but it worked even better after a little more polishing of the back and the bevel. The same was also true for Steve Knight's smoother and razee jointer I had on loan earlier in the Summer.

Just one gloat piled on another Dave :-)


I agree the L-V is a great plane and worth every penny. I reach for it more than others but feel it is clunky in some applications. When I am doing more delicate endgrain work, I usually grab my pre-war SW 65 or my LA MF.

Paul

Marc Hills
08-27-2003, 2:30 PM
I don't want to highjack this thread, but seeing how Rob Lee stepped up to the plate for Dan (as I knew he would), Dave Anderson wrote:

". . . as you become more educated and more comfortable in tuning and using handplanes your standards rise. What seems perfect as a beginner ends up not even being marginally acceptable as your skills improve. "

Man is that ever true; could be the basis for an entire thread. I've only been at this for about six months, but just the other day I reached for my first "real" hand plane, a Fulton transitional jack plane.

Whereas it gave me chills using it this spring, I haven't touched it in a while. After re-adjusting it a half a dozen times and still not getting acceptable shavings, I set it aside and grabbed one I acquired and tuned more recently, a *cough* Stanley Handyman. Night and day how much better the Handyman worked, even though it's equally obvious how much better a tool the old jack is. Bringing the transitional jack up to spec is on this weekend's to do list.

It's not so much that I'm displeased with how rapidly a beginner's standards can increase, it's that I'm a bit worried about where it might take me....