Treated Lumber and Kids

[Jonathan Dormody]

Howdy All,

Justed wanted to get your take on something. I was given a bunch of treated lumber that was left over from a deck job (used as the joists underneath the deck). I was thinking of using it as the floor framing for a treehouse for my kids. Should I be concerned about using it? I don't believe the kids will come in direct contact with it, but they might sleep on the floor of the tree house and it would be under the flooring.

Thanks,

Jon

[Joe Chritz]

All the wood manufactures say that treated lumber is safe for play structures. Is the stuff you have CCA or ACQ treated. A few years ago all treated lumber (except some direct ground contact posts) were switched to ACQ treatment which does not contain arsenic.

As long as they are not eating it I would think it is perfectly fine to use. I have a big place set and a yard train built out of it for my kids.

Joe

[Tyler Howell]

:mad: As long as it is open air the off gassing shouldn't be a problem.They should not have access to touch, it Sit on it, etc.
I hate working with that stuff and it's hard oun your tools.

[Hoa Dinh]

If there is no direct contact with the PT lumber, it's OK to use.

But what's the purpose of recycling the lumber? To save some money? How much are we talking about compared to the whole treehouse project?

I ask those questions because I don't like to work with PT lumber. They, at least the ones at my local BORG, are ugly.

After finishing your project, you don't want to see the re-used PT lumber sticking out like a sore thumb.....

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

the ONLY concern is with those kids who eat the wood.
Yer there are kids who chew the spruce in the playground.
Whether there is enough lead arsenate in the amount of lumber they actually chew up to harm them is less the issue for folks than the mere fact that lead arsenate is a nast poision.

However Leaching is not an issue. the leachate form PT lumber is less than negligable. Even were to all leach out the net result would not be lead arsenate in the kids as it's not goint to leach out in the first ten years or even the forst twenty. So exposure is not an issue form leachate.

My concern with spruce lumber in a playground is SPLINTERS . Spruce doesn't weather very nicely. It gets all splintery and that's not good.

If you really want to use spruce try seasoning it indooes and treating it with a high grade industrial 2 part urethane. It'll prevent splintering almost entirely. The stuff will last 20+ years and never come off, plus it'll seal the lumber ERGO no leaching of nasty poisons.

[Jonathan Dormody]

Thanks guys. I am using some "recycled" wood only because this treehouse project wasn't in our budget and also because there seems to be so much good wood thrown out that can easily be used for a fort or treehouse (as I am doing). Someone actually gave me about 100 sq feet of free TimberTech decking yesterday.

That said, these boards will be on the underside of a treehouse platform about 6 feet off of the ground, so my kids will have limited exposure to them.

Thanks,

Jon

[Jamie Buxton]

Where are you? I ask because PT on the east coast is apparently different from PT on the west coast. Here (California), PT is ugly stuff. The surface is badly chowdered up from holes punched to inject the chemicals. It practically throws splinters at you. I wouldn't use it near kids for that reason -- regardless of the argument about whether the chemicals themselves are dangerous to kids.

[Joe Chritz]

New treated lumber does not have aresenic in it anymore. The older stuff is CCA (copper chromium arsenic) treated and all new non-ground contact treated is ACQ. (Alkaline Copper Quaternary)

It is approved for play structures just as the older CCA was.

Biggest problem with the new stuff is that it kills fasteners. Use stainless if possible. Special hot dipped for ACQ if stainless is not available or hurts to much to buy.

Joe

[Darl Bundren]

I'd definitely frame up the floor with PT lumber. Then you could deck it with the composite decking that you got for free. I built a playset out of deck leftovers for my kids, and they've not gotten bellyaches or splinters yet. As some have pointed out, check to be sure that the integrity of the wood is good--if it's obviously splintery, you might reconsider. If it's six feet off the ground, they'd only contact it occasionally with their hands, and frequent handwashing is pretty much a must for young ones.

[Frank Chaffee]

Sure,
Go ahead and expose children’s wet or sweaty bodies to chemicals that preserve wood from moisture induced rot. In twenty or thirty years we can litigate with the companies who have purchased the assets (and liabilities), of said companies while they declare bankruptcy, and everybody’s health care costs rise higher. As if they could go higher. HAHAHAHAHA, soon, we will need a second job to live on, while our primary job pays only for our health insurance premium.

And let us not think at all of the earth, yes our mother earth, who absorbs the concentrated products of our humane defenses.

Sheesh,
Gotta go,
Frank

…or could we choose a way of living on this earth in some sustainable manner?

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Oh C'mon Frank that's a little over the top isn't it?

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Oh C'mon Frank that's a little over the top isn't it?

My thoughts exactly.

[Michael Adelong]

Howdy All,
Should I be concerned about using it? I don't believe the kids will come in direct contact with it, but they might sleep on the floor of the tree house and it would be under the flooring.
Jonathan,

I wouldn't worry about it. I doubt that anything that the kids could do would damage the wood. If you are that concerned about it, try fencing off the whole area around the tree. Keep them pesky kids out of there entirely and you'll have a fine treehouse long into retirement.

Michael

Oops... nevermind... now I see that you were concerned about the wood harming the children... Sorry about that, Chief.

[Kurt Forbes]

I think frank needs to shut his computer off. All of that em radiation is reaking all sorts of havoc on his surroundings.

Heck that may even contribute to the wood rot :) Never mind the damage on his body.

[Frank Fusco]

I once worked for a campground that had problems with picnic tables rotting away in just a couple years. The owners wanted to build their own using treated lumber but were not allowed to because there was (supposed) danger from the wood if food touched it. Later we learned that to pose a danger to a child, that child would have to eat about a dozen picnic tables to get enough toxin to have adverse effects. Don't you sometimes just love our G'ubmit? Go for it.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Later we learned that to pose a danger to a child, that child would have to eat about a dozen picnic tables to get enough toxin to have adverse effects.

Does that mean I should stop eating picnic tables?

[Ryan Ricks]

Does that mean I should stop eating picnic tables?

Only if you're already up to #11!

[Frank Fusco]

Does that mean I should stop eating picnic tables?

Only of you are a child. Adults can tolerate more. :D

[James Ayars]

I use PT lumber quite often and have no more trouble with splinters than I do with untreated pine. Biggest problem is warping.
James

[Don Abele]

OK, you guys were starting to get me worried since I am just finishing up an 18x24 back deck that is completly built from ACQ (ammoniacal copper quaternary) treated lumber. I have 3 children, including an 18 month old. So after about an hour or so of searching the internet, here's what I came up with:

Universal Forest Products: "Thorough research has found that properly processed and handled ACQ pressure-treated wood is a safe material for picnic tables, fencing, shelters, and playground equipment."

Backyard City Swing sets and Play sets: "The ACQ preservative system provides long-term protection from rot, decay and termites without the use of any EPA listed hazardous chemicals."

Childs Health Envioronmental Coalition: "ACQ is an arsenic-free option, but some critics of ACQ charge that it can also leach out of the wood, and its copper content can be toxic to earthworms and aquatic life."

US Product Safety Commission: "ACQ has been approved by the American Wood Preservers Association, and was also accepted by the International Conference of Building Officials in 1994 for inclusion in the Uniform Building Code. Toxicological and ecotoxicological testing has shown that ACQ-treated wood has low mammalian toxicity, and unlike CCA, the chemical contains no EPA-listed compounds and no known or suspected carcinogens. Although copper (which is also in CCA) is known to be toxic to some aquatic life, quat is used in shampoos and many other human contact applications."

I didn't find a single site that said anything about ACQ being dangerous - Not One. Everything out there talking about the dangers of PT is specifically addressing the old CCA.

So...with my research, using ACQ treated lumber is safe for use around children and even with incidental contact with food. Seems to me that only ones that should be worried are fish and earthworms :D .

Be well,

Doc