finger jointed 2x4's

[Lloyd Brown]

I was sent to the local lumber yard to get 2x4x8 and all they sold were ones with finger joints sometimes the joint was as little as 1" for the end of the board and most boards had 3-4 pcs jointed. Has anyone else seen this? I refuse to buy it and went to another yard futher away.
The stamp said it was graded for "vertical stud". and cost the same as normal 2x4's

[Jim Becker]

Sheesh...I would have run faster than you away from those! I suppose that for vertical applications they would be no problem, but it's the principle... :confused:

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

That's a first for me! I have never seen finger jointed 2x4's at a Lumber Yard. You often see paint grade moulding finger jointed, but that is a different animal entirely. I'm with Jim on this one, I would have scattered quick as well. Ya learn something new everyday......... :confused:

[Todd Burch]

My new $$$$$ house is built almost entirely with finger jointed studs. You can't hardly find a builder down here that doesn't use them. I think they suck. They are marked, as mentioned, for vertical use only, but there were many places that they were used in my house in a horizontal application and I made the builder replace them with regular (crap) 2X4s. (Perhaps because they weren't marked in spanish?)

My primary question when the house was being built, of the builder and my insurance company, was, is the glue water resistant, and for how long, in the event of a flood? Noone could answer it, or seem to even have considered it. As far as I'm concerned, (unless I get educated otherwise), this house will be totalled if it ever gets a few feet of water in it. Which, is a shame and a waste if you think of it.

Yeah, my builder tried to tell me that the finger jointed studs were better than normal studs, 'cuz they (the manfacturer) would cut all the bad areas out of utility grade wood and keep the good parts, and that as a result, they were straighter. Yeah right. That's why my sheetrock walls are waving at me still, and they are no good for horizontal applications. Good nothing. Cheaper, yes.

IRC2000 (international residential building code 2000) approves their use, but don't get me started on that building code.

End of rant.

Todd.

[Steve Roxberg]

One of my best friends manages a lumber yard that specializes in selling to contractors. He and I were talking about the best new materials for building homes, and he said that the best 2x4's were fingerjointed. It's to have them be straight and true.

He said he would only use them, and nothing else.

I would tend to agree, they might make sense.

[Rob Russell]

Funny - my brother (Civil Engineer) and I were talking about construction materials over the weekend.

Our discussion was about the use of OSB instead of plywood. Neither of us is convinced that OSB has been proven to hold up for the "long term" and would spec plywood for any sheathing on retirement houses we build. If the glue/resin in the OSB degrades in 30 - 40 years, the house becomes unsound.

A vertically-oriented finger-jointed stud (FJS) sort of doesn't fall into the same category.

First - you need to understand the forces on a vertical stud. They are primarly longitudinal; i.e., the weight of the building is trying to crush the stud into itself. The finger jointing doesn't affect the strength of a stud in the longitudinal direction. If anything, I'd think the weight would tend to keep the FJS sections pressed together. The sheathing (exterior plywood or OSB, interior sheetrock) is what prevents the walls from racking.

I would not even consider building a house from FJS's with OSB sheathing. Imagine, 30-40 years out, if the OSB loses its integrity. What's preventing the FJS studs from racking and decomposing into the little sections? Nothing.

There's no way that I can see how a FJS is appropriate for a horizontal framing member (unless it's blocking).

Todd - no insult intended if your house is framed with FJS's for the verticals and OSB sheathing. I just wouldn't do it on my house, evem if it did cost more.

Rob

[Glenn Clabo]

I've had this conversation with a few carpenters I know over the last year. FJS are preferred because they have had major defects removed providing a piece of lumber that is better than structural grade studs. The stud is also resistant to twist because of the different wood grain in each of the composite pieces. FJS's also reduce construction cost by reducing waste from sorting, trimming and cutting.

[Tom Scott]

As a structural engineer, I started seeing these finger-jointed studs quite a while ago. For the longest time, I resisted their use and would not allow them to be spec'd in a structure. However, they do use a waterproof exterior grade glue, and much testing has shown them to be as strong as a continuous stud. As noted though, they are not intended for, and should not be used, for any horizontal application. You really have to have a continuous member for this. I even allowed them to be used in my house built a few years ago.
I agree also that you should stick to plywood sheathing for the walls of a house.

Tom

[Tom Scott]

...they really weren't created to make a "better, straighter" stud. This method is used by manufacturers to help them control waste by using the shorts and otherwise unusable pieces because of length. Think of it saving trees.

[Todd Burch]

Rob, no insult taken. I knew what I was buying, and I was buying a lot big enough to put a 1200 sf garage on it, big enough to hold a pool, close enough to the school I wanted to send my kid to, and in 6 years when he's out of school, I figure that I'll be 1 year shy of that "7 year" mark for the major mechanicals to start going out, and I'll sell it and go build my dream house out in the country. Short term planning as I see it. And, where I am, in a non-flood zone, flood insurance is only $301 a year.

[Rob Glynn]

Finger jointed pine (radiata) has become common in West Oz over the past few years. I guess it is used for vertical studs in building houses etc but I have not seen that. What I have seen is it used to build up desk, table, bench tops by edge jointing lengths of 50 x 75mm (2" x 3"). Provided the finger joints don't coincide, I guess it would be strong enough for that application.

[Ken Garlock]

Funny - my brother (Civil Engineer) and I were talking about construction materials over the weekend.
....
Our discussion was about the use of OSB instead of plywood. Neither of us is convinced that OSB has been proven to hold up for the "long term" and would spec plywood for any sheathing on retirement houses we build. If the glue/resin in the OSB degrades in 30 - 40 years, the house becomes unsound.
....
I would not even consider building a house from FJS's with OSB sheathing. Imagine, 30-40 years out, if the OSB loses its integrity. What's preventing the FJS studs from racking and decomposing into the little sections? Nothing.

Rob


As far as durability of OSB goes, I had a 4'x5' piece in the bed of my truck for about 5 months, through rain, sun, and yes even some Texas snow and ice. It then laid in the field for another couple months. The only thing that happened to it was a mild warp of the panel. From what I could see, the panel still had structural integrity. Of course this is just my observation, and didn't last 40 years. I suspect plywood would not have faired as well.

Regarding the FJS, remember, the glued joint is stronger than the material it is holding together. :)

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

As far as durability of OSB goes, I had a 4'x5' piece in the bed of my truck for about 5 months, through rain, sun, and yes even some Texas snow and ice. It then laid in the field for another couple months. The only thing that happened to it was a mild warp of the panel. From what I could see, the panel still had structural integrity. Of course this is just my observation, and didn't last 40 years. I suspect plywood would not have faired as well.

I had a leftover sheet of OSB leaning against the outside of the garage for a few years...until my FIL used it to patch the floor in his hallway. I was amazed that it held up.

KC