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Dave Brandt
02-22-2003, 6:36 AM
I'm new here, but a long-time lurker on the Pond. From what I've read (the Pond, the Oak, etc.), seems like the norm for tablesaws is Jet, Delta, Grizzly, and occasionally Powermatic and General (and rarely a combo machine), but I don't recall ever hearing from anyone having a Hammer, Laguna, or Rojek saw. Surely someone must be using one.
I currently have an old Grizzley contractor saw that sits on a cabinet I built and has a home-made sliding table to left, but would like to upgrade to a more powerful cabinet saw in the near future.
After reading the cabinet saw tests in the current Woodworkers Journal, I'm gonna look seriously at the Rojek. I know it seems like a lot of money, $2400 to be exact, but with a sliding table ($300-$400), usable safety features - blade guard, soft-start, great dust collection - both below and above the blade ($300-$400), and includes a scoring blade (no clue how much, but it's gotta be over $100), it doesn't seem to be out of line. In fact, sounds like a bargain.
How much money do you have invested in your tablesaws (price of saw, additional features added by you, etc.)? I guess I'm trying to convince myself that this saw needs to be on my short list.

Mike Tubbs
02-22-2003, 7:42 AM
Good morning Dave,
We gave a fellow here by the name of Wendell Wilkerson that uses a Rojek. Maybe he'll see that we are looking for him and reply. Have you looked at MiniMax ? They make nice European tools. www.minimax-usa.com

Good Luck

Tubby

Paul Di Biasio
02-22-2003, 8:25 AM
I have had my CU410 for 2 years. Not only are the tablesaws great, the combo tools allow you to fit larger machinery in a small shop.

Join the minimax group www.yahoogroups.com. I have a ton of pictures posted there and the members love talking about the tools.

Mike Cutler
02-22-2003, 8:55 AM
Dave. The "euro style" saws that I've seen are really very nice, in fact some of them can cost $12-$15,000. I've never actually seen the Rojek, but from articles and posts on other forums the people that own them are happy with them. I own an 8 year old Jet Contractor saw and will be replacing it soon. It is a nice saw and has performed very well. It was affordable and versatile but I really didn't make an informed desicion when I bought it and would like to have a saw with different features now that I have more experience. I'd like a left tilt blade, a bigger motor, sliding table and better dust collection. I'd also like more weight to damping out the vibration, a better fence system and a better support structure for the extension table. The saw initially cost ~ $900 with the mobile base and to acccomplish the upgrades I'd like to incorporate would be another $ 1000 and I still wouldn't have adequate dust collection I think that you are in somewhat of the same position I am. You have a TS and your experience level has increased to the point that you want a product that more approximates your needs based on experience but the saw that you own works perfectly well. Buy the machine that you feel most comfortable with.Don't try to justify( convince yourself) the cost of the machine, but look at it as an investment and amortorize the cost over the years you expect to have the saw. In my opinion the TS is probably the most important and used MACHINE in home shops. Buy a good one, the one YOU want and you'll never regret it. My .02 FWIW

Dave Hammelef
02-22-2003, 9:02 AM
If I knew then what I knew now. I would have seriously looked at a combo and inparticular the mini-max. The only problem I might have is delivery and getting into a basement shop. These things can be big and heavy. But getting a 12" planner, jointer, mortiser, shaper, and table saw with slider in one package is nice. however its a lot of cash if your just starting out and not sure how long your gonna do this.

Leonard
02-22-2003, 3:01 PM
I purchased a felder bf631.have been very satified with it.www.felderusa.com.

Wendell Wilkerson
02-22-2003, 7:25 PM
Hey Dave,

I've owned a Rojek PK300V table saw for about a year and half. I bought pretty much bought it for the same reasons you're looking at it: sliding table and euro riving knife. The only thing I don't like is the stock rip fence. To put it bluntly, I think it sucks. I eventually put a Vega aftermarket fence on my saw and I've been very happy with my setup. Tech Mark (http://www.tech-mark.com) is now offering an upgraded beisemeyer clone fence. I haven't seen the new fence so I can't really offer my opinion on it. If I were buying the saw again I would also opt for the upgraded sliding table. One of the really nice features of the upgraded sliding table is that it will fold down out of the way. I bought the standard sliding table because it had a longer sliding distance. Unfortunately, it is not long enough to rip an 8ft sheet of plywood. The upgrade sliding table would easily handle everything I would cut with it and would take up less space. Just another note, when I bought my saw, they did not include a scoring blade as part of the standard package. The scoring blade arbor does come standard. Overall, I think Rojek is a well made product and even with upgrades I've mentioned, I think it's still a good deal for the money. Good luck with the saw search.

Wendell

Howard Rosenberg
02-22-2003, 11:32 PM
Hi Wendell - saw your replies re your Rojek saw and have a couple of questions for you.
Did you have to fiddle/adjust/shim much to compensate for casting quality? Any reliability problems so far?
Any needs yet to call for any after-sale service? Thank you Wendell.

Wendell Wilkerson
02-22-2003, 11:58 PM
Howdy Howard,

No Problem with the casting quality at all. I believe my saw is as well made or maybe better as one of my friend's PM66. Ok, it doesn't come with the super shiny top like the PM66 :D I haven't had any reliability issues. The only service call I have made was to order a piece for the stock rip fence that I broke. The people a Tech Mark were friendly and got me the part very quickly. My only real beef with the saw was the stock rip fence. I could never get mine aligned properly. With the Vega fence I have now that is no longer a problem.

Wendell

Howard Rosenberg
02-23-2003, 12:22 AM
for your quick, thorough response.
Does your VEGA fence extend the length of the table? Did you need to modify it at all?

BTW, I noticed you're in Texas.
We were at a party tonight & someone mentioned there's a Rosenberg, Texas.
Do you know anything about this city?
If you do, I'd appreciate anything you may know.
All the best.
Howard

Rick Potter
02-23-2003, 2:30 AM
I have a Felder saw/shaper combo with a 6' slider. With all the bells and whistles, it was about $12K. I didn't really need that new truck for a few more years. Priorities. I never put a gloat about it on the pond. To me, a gloat is getting a super deal, not spending megabucks. Actually kinda self conscious about it.

In my opinion, there are two types of slider saws, panel saws like mine that are mainly meant for sheet goods, and sorta/kinda cabinet saws like the small Rojek or Laguna, that are more familiar to most of us, but incorporate a built in slider. Note that on panel saws, the blade is always right next to the slider. That may or may not be the case with the others (no condemnation, both ways have benefits).

I looked closely at the Rojek, the Laguna, and the Mini Max. The Rojek is a nice saw, they make two different ones, and I assume you are talking about the one with the wider slider that cuts about 4'.

The MiniMax has a really lousy fence (the cheapest model). The more expensive one is much more sturdy, and is a very nice saw.

The Laguna weighs a ton (good in my opinion), and I considered it seriously too....about $3300 on show special with slider.

I believe they all take dado sets (better check). My saw doesn't.

As far as I know, ALL sliding saws are right tilt.

See if they take standard saw blades (mine doesn't), 5/8" for 10", and 1" for 12". You can get them anywhere.

Make sure it has a single phase motor, unless you want 3 phase.

Make sure the motor is 60HZ, not 50HZ....a saw with a 50 HZ motor runs 20% faster. With a 12" blade -that is really screaming.

As I mentioned above, one of the weak points on EEC saws is the fence. They don't seem to use them like we do. Same with dado sets, I don't think their safety regs allow them.


I also have a Unisaw with an Excalibur slider on it. I still use it a lot. I still need to dado those cabinet sides, and I don't like doing it with a router.

One problem with sliders is that they usually have a protrusion which holds up the slider, that sticks out anywhere from 8" to 2'. It is right where most of us stand to rip narrow pieces. I am amazed how many narrow pieces I rip (with the Unisaw).

Don't misunderstand me, I love the Felder. It is amazing how easy it is to cut cabinet sides, and angles. If you have a board that needs 1/2" off one edge, narrowing down to 1/4" at the other end, you just put it on a slight angle and do it. No jigs, no hassle. I am just suggesting it is really nice to have both saws.

I always meant to get a review together for the pond. Maybe I can get around to it if the creek decides to do them. I have a lot to say about sliders in general, Felder in particular. Most good, a few not so good.

Good Grief! I just saw the button to check message length. This one is pushing 2900 characters. Egads!

Rick Potter

Wendell Wilkerson
02-23-2003, 9:58 AM
Originally posted by Howard Rosenberg
for your quick, thorough response.
Does your VEGA fence extend the length of the table? Did you need to modify it at all?


I ordered the extra long Vega fence because the table top on the Rojek is like 6 inches deeper than an American style cabinet saw. The fence actually extends quite a bit off the back of the table top so I might have been able to get away with the standard fence length. To get the fence mounted I did have to make several modifications. I had to shorten the fence rails to account for the sliding table. To Rojek saw has no miter slots so table is not as thick as American CS table. I had to modify the mounting brackets so that the fence rails would sit at the right level below the table top. I was very glad that I could use the existing holes on the table top for the mounting brackets. I would much rather drill holes in the fence rails than in my table top. Overall it was not a difficult job to install the fence as long as you have access to a drill press.

Sorry, I don't know anything about the city you mentioned.

Wendell

Dave Brandt
02-23-2003, 10:45 AM
Especially Rick, Wendell, and Mike! As usual, I've received more valuable data than my wee brain could possibly process. So many choices and options still. Someone needs to take all the best features and combine them into one saw. Wish it was an American company, but they seem to wanna stick with a 50 year old design. Too bad. Anyway, I suppose I can always put my Vega fence (currently on my Grizzly) on one of the European saws and live happily ever after.

Wish the sliding tables, how does the footprint of these saws compare with our traditional cabinetsaws?

Dave Brandt
02-23-2003, 10:54 AM
What do they (Europeans) mean by "Format" style panel processing?

scott bonder
02-24-2003, 4:20 PM
Felder combo here. Like it alot. Did a review that is on the Pond and may, by now, be on Woodcentral. Happy to answer questions, but I don't exactly have a regular non-pond home yet, so best to email me.

Ken Salisbury
02-24-2003, 5:35 PM
Scott,
Glad to see you here on the Creek -- You'll love it
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Steven Seligman
02-24-2003, 10:03 PM
Just got here from the Pond, me thinks I like. But, anyway, I own a Felder CF310 and could not be much happier. The quality of the machine is head and shoulders above standard issue cabinet saws, shapers, jointers, planers etc. as is the flexibility. I have a small shop, and there was no way I was getting a full compliment of equipment into it and have any room left to swing a dead cat. Once you add up all the extras you would need to get the “same” level of performance it really becomes a viable option. In reality if you would be hard pressed to retrofit another machine to operate as well as one of the Comb’s do out of the box (or stand alones for that mater). They do have some “short comings”, i.e. the rip fence does get some getting used to, it is not as firm as the std. “t” square type. Some also think the no dado is a big deal, but once you get used to the shaper setup with a router spindle, it really is 6 of one ˝ dozen of the other. Actually, I can set up the shaper faster then I could ever set up the dado. Plus, you can leave it set up and lower it below the table and go back to TS operation. The rip fence serves double duty (with some extra support) there is a user group on Yahoo


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/felder-woodworking/

Francisco Luna
02-28-2004, 1:50 AM
[Hello Dave !
I'm new here too (2 minutes ago) I was looking in Yahoo for a small contractor grade table saw and I saw your comment in this Forum. I want to tell You another great brand in sliding Table Saws: ALTENDORF, Made in Germany. Actually, This man was the inventor of this kind of saws. Awesome saws ! Take a Look ! www.altendorfamerica.com

Regards,
Francisco Luna

john lawson
02-28-2004, 9:24 AM
I have owned a Rojek KPS 300 V combination machine for about 2 years. I am very happy with it. Reliability has been great.

This particular machine is a 5 in 1 combination machine with 3 separate 3 hp motors, which are Italian made. It runs on 230 volt single phase power. It has a 10" -12" tablesaw, 12" jointer, 12" planer, a shaper with 1 1/4" spindle and router collet (and an interchangeable 3/4" spindle), and finally a plunge mortising unit. If you have never used a mortising machine run off the jointer you are truly missing out on something. The Rojek company has been around a long time, and Tech Mark has represented them for something like 20 years. I have been very pleased with what little support I have needed. I now wish that I had gotten the optional format aluminum sliding table instead of the cast iron sliding table I have, but the one I have is very good, the format would have gotten the work closer to the saw blade and shaper cutter.

Without criticizing any other brands or makes of equipment I was thrilled with the overall value of the equipment I bought. I can achieve close tolerances with very robust equipment. There is no way I could have afforded separate machines that would have compared to what I got in this combination machine. It is true that changeovers are problematic with any combination machine. But I find that I plan my work a litlle better than I used to when I had all separates to minimize this issue. I also find that I have fewer occasions to go back to a previous set-up because the work I produce is more accurate. On the plus side you save a lot of shop space with a combination machine.

Your original question was about a Rojek saw, but I thought I would give you a little more to think about. Rojek is a very good brand and a very good product

Jim Becker
02-28-2004, 11:35 AM
The more I've been learning about this class of machine, the more I'm very respectful of them. Frankly, I'd have a MiniMax CU300 in my shop right now if not for the stairway smack in the middle of it. I'm so pleased with the MM jointer/planer and bandsaw that I may spring for the ST-3 saw/shaper someday.

Yes, the combos are not inexpensive up front, but you get a lot of machine for the money and dare say you actually compare what individual tools of similar capacity and quality would cost, the combo is a bargain. And the slider is incredible with "one finger" smoothness that you'll pretty much never find in an add-on slider, too.

Ken Garlock
02-28-2004, 12:18 PM
....
BTW, I noticed you're in Texas.
We were at a party tonight & someone mentioned there's a Rosenberg, Texas.
Do you know anything about this city?
If you do, I'd appreciate anything you may know.
All the best.
Howard

Howard, it is amazing the things you can find on google ;) Take a look at the City of Rosenberg Website.

Rosenberg Texas (http://www.ci.rosenberg.tx.us/default.cfm)

Michael Perata
02-28-2004, 3:16 PM
How much money do you have invested in your tablesaws (price of saw, additional features added by you, etc.)? I guess I'm trying to convince myself that this saw needs to be on my short list.

I have the MiniMax CU300Smart combo.

Paid about $9,500 last year. The slider is worth the price of admission by itself.

Let me join with Paul and invite you over to our forum. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MiniMax-USA/

John Renzetti
02-28-2004, 8:00 PM
hi Dave, I've had my Felder machines for going on six years. In my opinion they are great and I use them a lot. Once you use a slider you'll wonder how you did without it.
Before you buy anything, look at all the machines. You're in VA so you should find some Felder and Minimax owners. The Felder USA hq are located in DE so it's not that far from you.
Take care,
John