Still seeking TABLE SAW info.

[Rob Will]

Yesterday I posted a question about which, if any table saws are currently being made in the USA. The question specifically mentioned Delta and Powermatic. I want to buy a table saw soon and I need more information. I want to know where they are made before I buy.

As expected some of you expressed opinions about the sad state of our domestic manufacturing and how so much has gone overseas.

HOWEVER.....the topic of my thread was simply "where are these table saws made?". Eventually I did get a partial answer from Dev but I needed to know more.

Now my thread has been totally removed by the moderator. I can't access it. I still have no idea where that big bad PM 72A is being manufactured. Is there something wrong with this simple question?

This must be my lucky day,
Rob

[George Summers]

I don't mean to be flip but have you tried contacting the manufacturer and asking? I don't think that they would outright lie to you about point of manufacture.

George

[Rob Will]

They're not open right now. That's why forums are such good ways to learn. I can do it when I'm not at my extremely busy day job.

Rob

[Ken Garlock]

Rob, the only two saws that I know are made in North America are the Canadian General brand and the Saw Stop. Most WW power tools I know about are made in Taiwan and are of good quality.

I don't think I would get too worked up about country of origin, so long as it is not China. Look for quality of equipment first, then where it is made as a long second. Listen long enough and you will find that you will start to get a consensus about what is good and what is not.

If you want good quality, buy a Mini Max machine made in Italy or Austria, or you could settle for something of lesser quality made in the US, if you can find it. I bought a Bridgewood 10LTS a couple years ago, and it is an excellent saw for a hobbyist like me. I was convinced that it was a good machine when I heard that Bridgewood had their saw setting next to a PM66 so the customer could compare trunnions. Why pay $2200 and up for a PM when you can get a BW for $1500 from Taiwan.

[Dev Emch]

I don't mean to be flip but have you tried contacting the manufacturer and asking? I don't think that they would outright lie to you about point of manufacture.

George

ROFL.....:D:D:D:D:p:p:p:p:p

I called up powermatic looking for info my metal cutting bandsaw. Its a 143 as I recall. Its a 141 with a two speed gearbox and some pulleys to give you about 8 speeds.

Anyway I had to explain to the nice folks what a powermatic 143 was. Then they asked me if I could be mistaken and that it was made by another company. No, its got a big red and silver POWERMATIC name plate on it. Then they told me that they were relatively new there and that most of the old timers were gone. Hmmmmm, that would explain a few things.

Powermatic today is a new company with new blood and a new product line. My saw is a great saw but to small for my needs so I will online auction the sucker and go for a heavy duty DO-ALL or Tannewitz metal cutter. I use this saw in my tool business which does not get much time these days.

But the suggestion to call them sounds pretty good. They may know or if not, they may be able to lead you into another direction. I know that powermatic has been owned by a number of holding companies for almost its entire life. Prior to DeVlieg, there was Hondoulle (sp?) which I belive was an Italltian holding entity. So there may be some Itallian parts in the beastie as well. Given the format of the 72, I still think your better off with a tannewitz, northfield or oliver or the larger general.

[Bill Simmeth]

Rob, the only two saws that I know are made in North America are the Canadian General brand and the Saw Stop.I thought the SawStop was made in Taiwan???

[Dev Emch]

I thought the SawStop was made in Taiwan???

Ditto !!!!

[Frank Pellow]

Rob, the only two saws that I know are made in North America are the Canadian General brand and the Saw Stop.
...

Saw Stop is not made in North America. I believe that it is made in Taiwan.

[Ken Garlock]

OK, OK, I give.:)

I thought I had read that it was made in the USA. Maybe that was "Usa Tiawan.":rolleyes:

[Allen Bookout]

Rob,

Last year I was looking for a 10" cabinet saw made in the USA and was told that the Delta Uni that I ordered was made in the USA but when it got here I could clearly see that I was too late. No "Proudly Made in the USA" sticker like my bandsaw had and it had a Brazilian motor. That was the end of the line as far as I could find out for an American made cabinet saw.

I was also under the impression that the SawStop was made in Taiwan. If that is correct, I only know of one brand that is made in North America. That is the General from Canada (not to be confused with Gereral International which is imported).

The Uni is fine (disappointed in the table top flatness and finish) but I hear that the General is excellent and a fellow would be supporting North American manufacturing.

The information that I have presented is correct to the best of my knowledge so if anyone has information to the contrary please jump in.

Allen

P.S. You are forgiven Ken. I am SURE that you read USA Taiwan. Natural mistake. Besides----I am a displaced Texan and cannot let you hang out to dry by yourself.

[Al Garay]

ShopSmith is also made in USA. and now Lowe's is carrying them.
http://www.shopsmith.com/

I'm sure it's a good system but I'd take a Jet, Delta, Powermatic, etc.

[Jamie Buxton]

Like everybody has been saying, woodworking machines are not really being made in the US anymore. If you want a US-made cabinet saw, buy a used one. A Unisaw built thirty years ago is just as good as the modern version, and some might say is better. It should cost you less than a new one, too.

[Mike Wenzloff]

They're not open right now. That's why forums are such good ways to learn. I can do it when I'm not at my extremely busy day job.

Rob
Well, I don't think you'll get a definitive answer short of the manufacturer. Try sending their sale people a polite email. Then if they are willing to answer, they can in their own time, you can read it in your own time.

Just don't hold your breath waiting for the reply.

While I don't wish to stir trouble up, I don't understand the issue fully. I wish they were made here, but that is not probably ever going to happen again. The cost of labor and insurance as well as profit structures ain't gonna let it happen.

That's why there's old iron.

Take care, Mike

[Allen Bookout]

While I don't wish to stir trouble up, I don't understand the issue fully. I wish they were made here, but that is not probably ever going to happen again. The cost of labor and insurance as well as profit structures ain't gonna let it happen.



OH NO!!!!!!!! Here we go again. I sure hope not!

[Mike Wenzloff]

Nope, no trouble from me. Just my observation on the state of things.

I personally don't care where a machine is made. If I did, I wouldn't own a Jet machine.

If I did, I would buy vintage--even if that meant a 5 year-old Uni.

That was my point. It doesn't take 72 entire threads of discussion--all of which I think I've stayed out of. The question itself sets up the thread for elimination.

Just so everyone knows, and in the spirit of full disclaimer, I use French rasps, own a Festool router, some Jet machines, a couple DW sanders and a partridge in a pear tree.

Take care, Mike
who will be a good boy and stay out of the next 72 threads about where something is made...

[Ian Barley]

I second the call to ask the manufacturer. If needs be select a machine and tell them that you want to order one conditional upon their confirmation of its manufacturing origin. But realistically you are not likely to find anything anywhere with more than a dozen components which is entirely the origin of one nation. The only way that is likely is if you buy used and probably then at least 30 years old.

[Dev Emch]

OH NO!!!!!!!! Here we go again. I sure hope not!

Ohhhh Boooyyyy! I am just going to stick a nice juicy gym sock in my mouth on this one.:p

[lou sansone]

boy ... a thread gets yanked and I didn't see it.

american made saws still in production - that is the question?

Northfield .... What is wrong with them? They are nice saws

lou

PS

Rob, if you really want an american made saw, why not look at some of the older used american saws ? There are tons of them on the used market and most are still perfectly decent.

[Allen Bookout]

I think that if I was going to do it again and since I am at least one hundred dollars short of buying a Northfield that I might look for a used unit if I could see the saw to measure the table flatness and runout and see that there was no rust. There might be some real bargins out there. I would be willing to bet that some of the saws that are owned by individuals do hot have twenty hours a year put on them.

I do not know where you live Rob, but if you are around the Southeastern U.S, a good place to look is Redmond and Son near Atlanta. Here is a web page that shows some of their used saws for reference if nothing else.

http://www.redmond-machinery.com/table_saws_used.htm

Now I see that you are from Kentucky. Not too far from Atlanta.

[Jim Becker]

The PowerMatic site doesn't appear to list a PM72 at this point...nor could I find it using the search function. Perhaps I was just unlucky, or it's not being manufactured now. I could only find various versions of the PM66, the PM2000 and a 12" straight line rip saw.

[Dev Emch]

boy ... a thread gets yanked and I didn't see it.

american made saws still in production - that is the question?

Northfield .... What is wrong with them? They are nice saws

lou

PS

Rob, if you really want an american made saw, why not look at some of the older used american saws ? There are tons of them on the used market and most are still perfectly decent.

I am not a true fan of the northfield sliding table design. It works but could be improved. BUT>>>>>>> But, the standard model with a fixed table is one heck of a nice saw. And this would be comparable to say a powermatic 72 or the larger general. NICE!

[Dan Oelke]

I'll second Lou's suggestion - check out Northfield. (http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/)

Warning - before opening their pricelist be sure you are sitting down. They aren't cheap. A No 4 saw starts at $11,760. They go up to over $30k.

Then again - some would say these aren't in the same class as a Unisaw or PM table saw. For starters this has a (typically) 1 1/8" arbor for 14"+ blades.

[Ken Pywell]

According to a Powermatic dealer in Ohio, the 72 is still made in the USA.
Ken

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I think EXTREMA is made in Louisiana

[George Summers]

The 72A is in their "Industrial Woodworking Tools" catalog

http://www.powermatic.com/catalog/catalog.htm

George

[Brian Hale]

I think EXTREMA is made in Louisiana

That 10" saw is a twin to my Bridgewood BW10LTS. The trunnion, the fence and it's adjustments (including the sight glass), steel motor cover and it's catch, the handles, even the small cutout in the base near the top. Mine is made in Taiwan.

Brian :)

[Allen Bookout]

I think that you are correct Brian. I would bet a dollar to a donut that at least the Extrema small cabinet saws are imported.

They do not claim to be selling USA made products and here is what they say on their FAQ page:

"We are a national distributor of woodworking machinery with dealers in certain parts of the country and cannot post prices for that reason."

I think that "distributor" is the key word. I also think that many of us would have more knowledge of this brand if it was manufactured in this country and if they had a competitive price they would be everywhere. I have no proof of this so if anyone wants to verify with this company it would be interesting.

[Dev Emch]

I'll second Lou's suggestion - check out Northfield. (http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/)

Warning - before opening their pricelist be sure you are sitting down. They aren't cheap. A No 4 saw starts at $11,760. They go up to over $30k.

Then again - some would say these aren't in the same class as a Unisaw or PM table saw. For starters this has a (typically) 1 1/8" arbor for 14"+ blades.
Many pro woodworkers working one to four man shops will use northfields with some history. A standard #4 northfield with no sliding table can often be had from $750 (beater) to less than $5000 (very new and mint condition. circa 80s machine). You can opt for the sliding table models but I found my old northfield slider to be a bit bumpy on the ride and the table a bit awkward as the slider has no insert. My first heavy duty saw was a 1958 northfield #4 with a single top (non slider). Had the Louis Allis 5 HP direct drive motor. Boy was this a saw! Never again would I digress back to smaller cabinet or contractor saws! I was spoiled and hooked for life. I traded this in for a #4 slider and was not that happy with it so I sold it and bought an Oliver 88-DM rolling top saw. Much better. I bought my first northfield off of that online auction site for $1000 dollars and fixed it up. Used it for two years and sold it for $1250.

[Tom Quatsoe]

Being relatively new to SMC and it is too bad I'll be ostracized so soon, but I can't hold it in any longer....what is an American TS.

Because many of the saws built in Asia are outsourced by US companies, and much of the profit and all of the deflationary effects help the USA...that seems pretty American.

and is this better or worse then equipment which is made with USA labor, but is owned by a foreign company....not sure.

and does anyone believe the few "American" produced Tablesaws are actually build with "American" steel, components, motors, etc.

and does it really support America by paying more for a less efficient operation when resources could be better allocated.

The best way to support the our craft and America is to pay the least while getting the most in return....it is the only way to drive innovation and give more access to more people.

Minimax for my money.

p.s. I do not mean to cause aggravation, only to advance our hobby or craft. I'll try not to bring it up again.

[Greg Koch]

Dev...got the mate to that sock?


:D

[Allen Bookout]

Tom, It dosen't really make any difference what any of us think about this subject. It only matters that we try to answer the original question, reqardless of his reasons for wanting to know, or this thread will go off in a completely different direction and may be removed by the Moderators for good reason. That is my take on the whole thing anyway.

By the way, I am not trying to be unfriendly. It is just that I have seen it happen too many times.-------WELCOME TO THE CREEK!

Allen

[Dev Emch]

Being relatively new to SMC and it is too bad I'll be ostracized so soon, but I can't hold it in any longer....what is an American TS.

Because many of the saws built in Asia are outsourced by US companies, and much of the profit and all of the deflationary effects help the USA...that seems pretty American.

and is this better or worse then equipment which is made with USA labor, but is owned by a foreign company....not sure.

and does anyone believe the few "American" produced Tablesaws are actually build with "American" steel, components, motors, etc.

and does it really support America by paying more for a less efficient operation when resources could be better allocated.

The best way to support the our craft and America is to pay the least while getting the most in return....it is the only way to drive innovation and give more access to more people.

Minimax for my money.

p.s. I do not mean to cause aggravation, only to advance our hobby or craft. I'll try not to bring it up again.
Hi Tom...
Welcome. Now down to brass tacks. You need to take a closer look under the hood of say an Oliver, Tannewitz, Northfield or Whitney table saw. Granted these are no longer made but they can be had in the used market for a semi reaonable price. For example, check out the trunions in the northfield! Hogged into cast iron using a precision milling machine. Or check out the main support plate for the Oliver 88.... its about 2 feet by 3 feet and almost 2 inches thick. Solid Steel! Some very impressive work here.

P.S. Edit. Correction! Northfield still builds the northfield saw and Eagle Machinery will build you a new oliver 88 for about $30,000 dollars. Sorry about the slip about these two no longer being made.

[Ian Barley]

Don't lets go there again. The original question has been answered probably as well as any of us here is capable of answering it. Extraneous comment is not gonna throw any more light on the answer.