Climb Routing?

[Richard Wolf]

I work with alot of oak, so I find I like to climb route, atleast my first pass. I have noticed, that on occassion, after climb routing, I have had some bits loosen up on me. Different routers, table or hand held, Is this a phemonium (sp) that others have noticed or do I need more force locking down my bits?

Richard

[tod evans]

richard, i only climb cut oak. but don`t recall ever having a bit come loose..02 tod

[Dan Oliphant]

I have had that happen when routing hickory on my router table, but never with a hand held. These have all been 1/4 inch shanks, have never had the problem with 1/2 inch shanks.

[Philip Glover]

Richard,
This is a problem with climb cutting and straight shanks.
Milling machines will sometimes throw cutters when climb cutting.
K&T Milwaukee-Matic's with straight tool holders are notorious for this.
All you can do with a router is make sure the tool shank and collet are absolutely clean, dust free, and tight.

Regards,

Phil

[Frank Chaffee]

Righty tighty, lefty loosey?

[Jacob Snow]

dumb question... Whats climb cutting?

[tod evans]

dumb question... Whats climb cutting?

feeding where the bit tries to "climb" out of the cut, or backwards of the way you`re supposed to according to all the tomes..02 tod

[Ted Jay]

dumb question... Whats climb cutting?

I had to look it up too. I didn't know the "official" name, just knew the procedure.

“climb-cuts,” so-called because the router is “climbing,” or being pulled along as the bit grabs the wood. Viewed from overhead, the cutter is rotating clockwise and moving into wood, which is on the right-hand side of the bit. This will minimize the chance of wood tear-out.

[Richard Wolf]

Thanks Philip, I figured a machinest would have the answer. Does the collet loosen up, or does the cutting action force the bit into the wood. These were some good size bits I was using.

Jacob, climb milling is working with the rotation of the router which will give a cut that is less likely to split out the grain.

Richard

[John Gregory]

The only time I have had bit loosen is with 1/4" shafts and needed some cleaning. And I make the slots in the Collet and collet nut line up properly to get the best grip.

[Steve Clardy]

I too climb cut with oak. Handheld router, not a table mount.
Never recalled a bit coming loose though.

[pat warner]

"or do I need more force locking down my bits?"

Probably not.

Spirals may have a tendency to unscrew themselves from the collet but it is unlikely. I'm thinkin' bad collet, bad shank. What cutter, all cutters are loosening?
Do torque to 15-20 inch pounds on the collet wrenches.

Look for galling on either the shank or the collet. If present, scrap either or both.

Safe routing. (http://www.patwarner.com)

[Richard Wolf]

"or do I need more force locking down my bits?"

Probably not.

Spirals may have a tendency to unscrew themselves from the collet but it is unlikely. I'm thinkin' bad collet, bad shank. What cutter, all cutters are loosening?
Do torque to 15-20 inch pounds on the collet wrenches.

Look for galling on either the shank or the collet. If present, scrap either or both.

Safe routing. (http://www.patwarner.com)

Thanks for the answer Pat, One bit is a 7/8 round over, brand new, in a relitively new router collet for a shaper table. The second was an older, profile bit with a bearing, in good shape in a fairly new Makita router that has never given me problems. I think I'll check everything for cleanlyness and burrs and see how they look tomorrow.

Richard

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Probably with an issue like this the router manufactorer is a consideration.

I have a PC 690 - Never tossed a bit.
and
I have a Triton 3.25 HP - I am just waiting for that crappy excuse for a collet to pitch bits across the room.

[Seth Poorman]

It happened to me one time, couldnt figure out what was wrong myself called a buddy and he told me to blow out my collet :rolleyes: Presto !:)

[Rick Christopherson]

During climb-cutting, the bit is constantly pushing away from the workpiece, and this causes a significant amount of vibration as the pilot bearing and cutter tips oppose each other's control. The bit also experiences a greater torque load because it is sheering the fibers instead of cleaving them.

These factors may lead to the bit loosening in the collet if the collet is not properly tightened or is damaged.

Assuming the file attachement comes through, it is copyrighted, so please do not duplicate it. This graphic is one I created for the Festool OF1400 router manual, but the legal department has not approved of it yet.

[Robert E Lee]

For all newer woodworkers be very careful if you do this on a router table. It can jerk the wood out of your hand and throw it across the shop and pull your hand where it does not want to be and is very fast at doing this. Not the thing to do.
Bob

[Russ Filtz]

I do the opposite sometimes, with climb-cutting on the finish pass to get a cleaner cut. You still have to be carefull on the regular passes not to take too much off. I think the secret to both ways is to not take too big a bite, esp. with climb cuts.

[Richard Wolf]

For all newer woodworkers be very careful if you do this on a router table. It can jerk the wood out of your hand and throw it across the shop and pull your hand where it does not want to be and is very fast at doing this. Not the thing to do.
Bob

This is an excellent point, climb routing on a table is very dangerous. When I was doing this on the table I was shaping a 12' long piece with two of us holding on for control. Climb routing is not something to do with small pieces at a router table.

Richard