Basement shop construction questions

[Wes Billups]

Sorry for the length but I would really like to get some input/suggestions. My wife and I recently moved into a new house and I'll be finishing a portion of the basement and have numerous questions.

Question #1. I plan on having the spray urethane insulation applied to the ceiling since they used floor trusses. My hope is that this is the best way to prevent dust and noise migration into the other living spaces. The insulation contractor says he can spray the walls too. At $1.50/sq ft I think fiberglass is the way to go on the walls. What do all of you think of this option?

Question #2. Should I install a vapor barrier between the concrete block walls and 2x4 studs?

Question #3. What kind of ceiling finish does everyone recommend? Our previous house had dry walled ceilings in the basement and this prevented me from running any wires in the future so I would prefer ceiling tiles. For cost I'm also considering OSB screwed and painted white but concerned about sound absorption.

Question #4. The ceilings are only 7'-9". I am thinking of using recessed cans around the perimeter in combination with lots of fluorescents. Am I nuts to consider using the recessed can fixtures if I have enough fluorescent lights?

Question #5. There is an I-beam and column splitting off a 6' section of the shop. I was thinking of using it as a tool corral for the occasionally used tools and long term storage. Everything will be on mobile bases so my plan is to let the shop change as needed. Any other ideas for this space would be appreciated.

I've attached my plans for the space. The line between the jointer and planer is the I-beam and they are next to the column. The areas with doubled up walls will be partition walls separating the shop from the rest of the basement. This is my third shop so I know what I want in the way of outlets, dust collection, and painted floor but would love to hear everyone's suggestions.

Thanks,
Wes Billups

[Jeff Horton]

#1 - I THINK it is a lot of money for little advantage. I just put in 3.5" fiberglass batts and noise has not been a problem. My tools are under the living room and the wife says she hears them but it's not a problem.

There is no reason to think dust will get through the floors unless you have some big gaps!

Weather strip and add a threashold and sweep to the basement doors. That will keep noise and dust out.

#2 Vapor barriers always go on the warm side of the insulation. Not the backside. Otherwise it keeps the moisture in the insulation, not out.

#3 Insulation only.

If you have a problem with sound then drywall with the metal strips attached to the joists. Don't attach it direct to the joist, it will transmit the sound upstairs, maybe worse than without it.

#4 I wouldn't do anything but the fluoresents. Incadesents cost a lot more to operate and don't put out as much light. Plus as a photographer I can see the difference in the 'color' of the two. Drives me batty.

#5 Humm, thats a personal choice. Unless you need/want a spray booth?

[Ken Belisle]

I don't remember where I read about this, but I did it in my basement shop and it has worked out great.................

On the outside walls where I was against the concrete, I used 2 x 4's top & bottom and (because there are no structual issues) 2 x 3's for studs, flush with the inside (shop side) of the 2 x 4's. This leaves 1" between the back of the studs and the basement (concrete) walls for running wires, etc. Also eliminates the need for a vapor barrier because you have air flow behind the wall. Standard 16" spacing allowed me to use standard insulation.

On the inside walls, I used 2 x 3's everywhere.

Since I was putting up T-11 instead of drywall, I didn't notice any difference in the strength or rigidity of the walls. I don't know what it would be like with drywall, but I doubt if you would even notice it.

Just an idea that worked for me.................

[Matt Meiser]

The foam is going to cause a problem for future wiring & plumbing. Because of this, I think I would go with fiberglass. We installed drop ceiling in my brother's basement and were able to do so with a very minimal loss in headroom and it gives easy access. You might want to check code on using OSB in the basement (fire reasons). I'd be inclined to forego doing anything on the walls for a shop and just add a space heater if it is cold down there. What it will cost to insulate and cover the walls would go a long way towards electricity or gas for a heater. Paint the concrete, install a french cleat around the walls to make it easy to hang stuff and call it good. Once you get moved in you won't see the walls anyway because you'll end up covering them with "stuff".

[Kyle Kraft]

I agree with Ken on the outside walls. I read a dissertation on finishing basement walls, and in a nutshell, the coolness of the basement wall can cause condensation between the poly vapor barrier and the concrete which leads to breeding mold.

They recommend insulating the outside of the basement wall to elevate its temperature and reducing the occurrence of condensation (read $$$$$$$$$$$ unless done at time of construction).

I plan on building the stud wall about 3/4" off the poured wall to allow air circulation and then insulate and sheetrock as usual. Due to the waviness of the poured wall, I have to bring the stud wall away from it in the first place.

As always, proceed at your own risk (the disclaimer)

[Mark Pruitt]

I was thinking the same as Jeff about the spray booth. That's definitely how I would use that space if I were able to ventilate it.

As to lighting, my opinion is the more the better.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

UGL drylok is great for sealing concrete against moisture from the outside.

My brother used to spec it for water/ sewarage treatment plants all ove the planet.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Nice space, really nice.

Low ceilings suck, but you will learn to live with it!

One thing I have to add, if you are worried about dust etc, put in a good DC, that means a cyclone, not a blower and bags.

Cheers!

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Fiberglass insulation is generally not recommended for basement walls. Even though a plastic vapor barrier is installed on the warm side of the wall, moisture still migrates the other way from the outside to the inside via the concrete. Exterior water proofing helps, but most older homes 20+ years old don't have this feature.

In a shop, I do not see the benefit of finished walls, especially sheetrock walls which damage easily. The only downside to not having walls is that you should protect electrical circuits using either armored cable (BX) or use rigid conduit. An interior sealant (like UGL Drylok mentioned above) does help reduce moisture migration, and makes your wall nice and bright. However, I have found that these sealant products often fail because the moisture is pushing thru the foundation wall against the sealant's adhesion, versus the other way around. Bubbling and flaking are the result.

As far as energy savings from insulated basement walls, the savings will be very small. Since comfort, as with a basement rec room, is not as important, insulation may be more of a hassle than it's worth. Besides, I don't think insulation over concrete walls will provide any sound deadening. But if you still want insulation, I recommend foam board insulation like polyisocyanurate foamboard. A 1" thick sheet will give you an R=5 and is more resistant to moisture and mold growth. The boards should be about 1" off the foundation wall.

I have a basement shop with no finished walls (other than sealant) and no ceiling (just exposed floor joists). I have ran a lot of cabling and ducting in the overhead and have often modified it or serviced it without trouble. Although you did your homework regarding shop layout, things always seem to change during implementation. Plenty of 220V and 110V outlets are important. I must admit that my shop can be readily heard upstairs where most of the floors are carpeted.

My shop is about 27'x17'. It uses 20 48" flourescent shop lights on two switches. My lighting is bright and even, without shadows. I recommend purchasing quality flourescent shop fixtures that use electronic ballasts. They are available in T-8 bulbs (3/4" dia) or T-12 bulbs (1" dia). The T-8 bulbs are about 20% more efficient, and provide the same lumens as a T-12 bulb. Just stay away from the cheap $7.00 shop lamp fixtures. They dull bulbs and eat them quickly with buzzing and flickering all the time. Incadescent, halogen and xeonon fixtures are just too hot and localized in my opinion.

cheers, Jeff

[Gary McKown]

#3 (and 4) - I used ¼" Lauan plywood for the ceiling and an interior partition, put up with drywall screws. This (a) takes up slightly less headroom, (b) doesn't ding as easily as drywall, (c) is easier to handle during installation, and (d) is easy to remove one or more sheets if I need access to wiring or plumbing or if someone later wants to convert it from shop to fancy living space. Siliconed the joints and screw divots and put on two coats of ceiling white to brighten it up.

[Hank Knight]

Wes, I have a 17' X 27' basement shop with poured concrete walls. It is directly below our den/kitchen. It has no ceiling, just the floor joists. My wife can hear the machinery, but she has never complained about the noise, even though I've asked her on a number of occasions if it's a problem. It is heated and cooled by vents from our central heating and A/C unit. There is no return vent in the shop and I have not experienced any dust migration problems. All the mess stays in the shop.

My walls were insulated waterproofed when the shop was built, and I had French drains put in at the outset to reduce the moisture build-up against the walls. The shop is bone dry, so I haven't had to deal with the waterproofing/insulation issue. If you choose to leave the walls bare, paint them. Concrete sloughs off dust and grit for a long time unless it is sealed and painted.

I agree with the recommendation that you install a french cleat around the perimeter of the shop ceiling. I have one along one wall and I've enjoyed having the capability to hang and relocate shop cabinets. I'm going to add a cleat around the rest of the shop perimeter to expand my cabinet space.

My shop has a small 12' X 6' room that opens off the main shop area, much like your space. I have a lumber rack along one wall in there and a sharpening/metalworking bench, a Tormek and a grinder on the other wall with shelves above and a metal parts cabinet for storage. I do all my messy sharpening and metalwork in there so the woodworking area stays clean. I wouldn't trade the space for anything.

My lighting is flourescent and it's adequate. I could use some upgrading here, so I'm no help with the lighting issues.

I strongly suggest, however, that you consider putting in a hardwood floor. My floor is concrete. I've added some heavy duty commercial floor mats, but my back and legs still suffer badly when I spend all day in my feet in the shop. Unfortunately, my headroom is limited, so I can't add sleepers and a hardwood floor.

It looks like you've got a nice space and lots of good advice. Good luck with your shop.

Hank

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Hank has a good point about the concrete floor. I believe it was the leading cause of my planters faceitis (bone spur). Silicon gel shoe cushions (available at any pharmacy or shoe store) really helped.

The problem with floor mats is that I often need to move my machines around and the mats would become a hassle. The ideal solution would be to have a continuous soft floor whether it's plywood or hardwood. But, if you have moisture problems, you may need an additional vapor barrier between the concrete and the flooring which is available from hardwood flooring manufacturers.

cheers, Jeff

[Rob Russell]

Nice space, really nice.

Low ceilings suck, but you will learn to live with it!

One thing I have to add, if you are worried about dust etc, put in a good DC, that means a cyclone, not a blower and bags.

Cheers!

Stu - I'd love to have ceilings that are "only" 7'9". I've got about 6'6" to the bottom of the floor trusses in my basement shop.

Rob

[Wes Billups]

I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestions. I'm getting a ton of ideas from all of you and really appreciate the responses. Is there a place on the Creek that would allow me to scroll through shop tours? I have tried to search for basement shops but get thousands of hits that don't pan out to have pictures of other Creeker's basement shops.

Thanks again,
Wes

[Matt Meiser]

Not on the creek, but http://www.shoptours.org has a lot of shops from Creekers and Woodcentral members call themselves.

[Larry James]

...I would really like to get some input/suggestions. Wes Billups

Hi Bill, how I did my basement shop...
Sealed basement walls with Zinsser waterproofing paint.

Used foam board adhesive and 1”x3” furring strips to attach 1 1/2” x 2’ wide Owens Corning “InsulPINK” Styrofoam insulation ( http://www.owenscorning.com/quickfind/index.asp under residential products). About $9 for a 2’x8’ sheet. Easy to cut with jig saw.

Furring strips fit in between adjacent foam boards and were attached using a Remington model 479 “power trigger” firing .22 caliber loads. No framing or holes to drill! Fast and easy way to insulate and cover walls. Spaced styrofoam and drywall about 1 1/2” above floor.

Using adhesive and drywall screws, covered insulation with 1/4” drywall - 3/8-1/2” recommend, but much easier to get 1/4” into basement when working alone.

3 1/2” fiberglass between floor joists, covered with Lauan. Attached Lauan to joists with drywall screws so future access is possible. Boxed in joist space to recess florescent lighting. Noise upstairs not a problem.

Electrical conduit drops down walls for outlets (56” above floor) Easy expansion by running conduit along wall. Have both standard and GFI receptacles. Recommend 240 volt wiring into shop even if if you do not intend to use it. No need to wire into breaker box, just have it available. Trust me, it would have been much easier if I...

I also replaced 1948 basement metal hopper windows with vinyl sliders - don’t forget ventilation. No heat needed, stays about 58-60 degrees year around. No moisture problems.

Yes, you can learn to live with 78” ceilings, sigh.

Larry
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