Help out a noob with his carcass

[George Carion]

I’m building this bureau/bookcase thing out of red oak for SWMBO. When I’m complete it’ll look approximately like the drawing. I’m sure I’ll make design changes as I go along. So far I’ve made solid oak panels for the sides (edge glued .5 inch stock) and the face frame out of .75 inch stock. Right now I’ve dry-fit the face to both panels using dowels. Doesn’t seem like many people use dowels for this application.
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I’ve been going over this forum looking for helpful tips and I’ve learned two things:
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Routers eat fingers (I spent a whole day looking for shop safety guidelines after I saw Shelley’s post).
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I don’t own a router table yet… so onto the topic of wood movement. I need advice on how to complete the carcass of my bureau-thing to prevent the panels from splitting while at the same time making it sturdy. Living in SoCal may help me a bit because of the dry climate.
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The whole thing will be 2 or 3 pieces (haven’t decided yet): the cabinet on the bottom, the bureau portion, and then the bookcase on top. I may combine the bureau with either the bookcase or the cabinet. I’m not sure yet. I’ll decide when it comes time to cut the boards. :D Anyone have a preference? Inside the cabinet will be one shelf and a dust panel supporting the drawer. I was intending on tightly securing the shelf and dust panel to the side panels (bulkheads?) to add support and help keep them flat. Is this a bad idea? The back panel I am intending to use more .5 inch red oak boards fit into rabbeted edges.
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This will probably take me about a month to complete. Any advice from you kind people would be greatly appreciated. Don’t make fun of my single-car garage shop. ;)
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Thanks!

[Mark Rios]

Wow, George. Looks to be a really nice project. I'm not sure what you are referring to when you mention "to prevent the panels from splitting". There are some great furniture makers here though that I'm sure can help you.


Keep up the pics of your progress.


p.s....No worries about your shop; mine is literally the back yard of the 3 unit complex I'm remodeling. True shadetree. :D

[George Carion]

The side panels are made out of 3" wide stock. I was thinking they might split along the glue lines if the panel expanded.

You get to work outdoors! You don't have to worry about dust as much. I really need a dust collection system. Maybe if this project turns out OK my wife will let me buy one to match my new jointer.

Also, it looks like pieces are "bowing" in those pictures. It's just lens distortion from my camera.

Gracias.

[Vaughn McMillan]

George, I think the glue joints are less likely to split on the panels than the wood itself, as long as you had sufficient glue and clamping pressure.

Also, I think I'd use something other than glued-up panels for the back. Many of the cabinets I've seen discussed here use either 1/4" or 1/2" plywood for the backs. As far as your other questions, I'll let the more experienced furniture builders chime in with their advice.

- Vaughn

[Kent Fitzgerald]

The side panels are made out of 3" wide stock. I was thinking they might split along the glue lines if the panel expanded.
The side panels will change seasonally in width, but there shouldn't be problems with splitting as long as the panles are free to move (i.e., not rigidly attached to something that won't move).

It's a little hard to tell in the picutes, but you may have a problem where the sides join to the bottom. Is the bottom plywood? What kind of joint did you use between the sides and bottom?

[Maurice Ungaro]

George,
I believe that the piece you are building is classically called a "secretary".

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Not likely to split any more than the average table top which is also laid up from ripped & jointed stock.

However, you touched on an issue that you might want to consider: Movement of the wood in responce to humidity cnanges.
The sides will expand and shrink with the humidity aling the width (acros the grain). If the sides bottom and top are joined - and the grain is running in the same direction - that should be OK but joining the back in the same fashion may be a problem. If you make the back from solid stock too you might want to let it float in a frame. Otherwise the thing may have a tendency to pull itself apart at the corners.

[tod evans]

george, please correct me if i`m wrong, but isn`t that a plywood bottom in the case you show? if it is and it`s fastened to the sides the sides will move and the ply won`t causing the sides or the joint between the sides and bottom to fail......02 tod

[Ted Jay]

..... Don’t make fun of my single-car garage shop. ;)
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Thanks!

You know if you kick that SUV to the driveway you'll have more room...... OH.... SWMBO.... never mind!!!:D :D :D

[George Carion]

Should have mentioned this in my post...

That's not the bottom. I made the piece sitting at the bottom for the dust panel that will support the drawer. It's just sitting at the bottom for now. It's plywood inset into a thin oak frame.

"Secretary". Brilliant. Now I can search through google and see some pictures of the thing I'm trying to make. <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:12pt; height:12pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\gcarion\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip _image001.gif" o:href="http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/biggrin.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]-->:D<!--[endif]-->

I kinda wanted the back panel of the secretary :) to look like this...
http://cache.tias.com/stores/ccagf/pictures/dsbte.jpg

But I'm not set on that yet. I haven't figured out how I'll join the boards with these types of grooves (not sure of the technical name) with the tools I have on-hand. Maybe it's time for a router table.

Let's see.... If I give the back panel some room to breath and I don't directly join the dust-panel to the sides I should be good? Oh. How about the shelving? Will it matter how I join the shelves to the sides since the shelves will expand in the same directions?

Thanks again.

[Jerry Clark]

George, be sure to clean the dried glue off and finish sanding the inside before final assembly. It could really messup your finish!:) Looks like a great project.

[Brett Baldwin]

George, you could get that look at the back with shiplapped boards, which you want to leave loose for the movement compensation except for a couple of boards. It is an easy process with a table saw.

[George Carion]

I have a lot of scraping and sanding ahead of me. I'll be asking a bunch of questions in the forum when I get ready for that part. I'd like this to look decent rather than slapped together like most of my work. I'm learning as I go. I'll be pretty good in 20 years.


George, be sure to clean the dried glue off and finish sanding the inside before final assembly. It could really messup your finish!:) Looks like a great project.

[Steve Schoene]

I'm troubled at where the strength to support a desk and book case will come from. This very traditional design would typically be made with 7/8" (or perhaps 3/4") hardwood for the sides, which would then be dovetailed into similarly thick top and bottom boards. Dovetails aren't necessary but some strong joint at the corners is needed. With book cases on top, and being free standing, not screwed to walls, this base unit will have to support much more weight than kitchen cabinets. Drawer blades would then be dovetailed into the front of the sides to keep the sides from spreading, and prevent racking.

The dust panel has potential to provide strength in addiition to the face frame. Its cross rails, particularly at the rear, need to be firmly joined to the sides, and the panel allowed to float in the cross grain direction.

A plywood back, firmly attached to the sides would help a lot. Vertical back boards must be set up to provide room for expansion and contraction in the width, and consequently can't provide the needed strength to keep the sides from collapsing.

[George Carion]

What is a drawer blade? I was a bit worried about the 1/2" sides. I was actually going to use 3/4", but I got caught up in a "cheaper and probably strong enough" debate with myself. I'm thinking I might start over and build this with floating panels. I need to spend some time in my garage breathing in fine dust particles and think it over.

Thanks for the advice.


I'm troubled at where the strength to support a desk and book case will come from. This very traditional design would typically be made with 7/8" (or perhaps 3/4") hardwood for the sides, which would then be dovetailed into similarly thick top and bottom boards. Dovetails aren't necessary but some strong joint at the corners is needed. With book cases on top, and being free standing, not screwed to walls, this base unit will have to support much more weight than kitchen cabinets. Drawer blades would then be dovetailed into the front of the sides to keep the sides from spreading, and prevent racking.

The dust panel has potential to provide strength in addiition to the face frame. Its cross rails, particularly at the rear, need to be firmly joined to the sides, and the panel allowed to float in the cross grain direction.

A plywood back, firmly attached to the sides would help a lot. Vertical back boards must be set up to provide room for expansion and contraction in the width, and consequently can't provide the needed strength to keep the sides from collapsing.