Drum Sanders, Wide Belt Sanders & a few design obervations...

[Dev Emch]

Wide belt sanders are all the rage but are they all they are cracked up to be? Well first let me say that a wide belt with multiple belts and selectable drum versus platen with 50 HP, etc. is a hard show to follow. They are also insanely expensive with price tags upwards of $50,000 dollars. So for most of us, this isnt even an option or consideration.

So what out there in wide belt land that will work? Well, we can get a 24 in to 37 in single belt, wide belt sander. Lou found a nice 37 in Timesaver. But is no spring chicken. It uses a pnuematic air powered system to maintain belt alignment. New ones use electric eyes and servo control. How its done does not really matter. I kinda prefer the air powered system as its novel and easy to repair. Some servo parts may be integrated electrics which can be a bear to repair.

Now some of these widebelts have 6 inch drums while others have 12 inch drums while still others use a full platten design. Which one is better? That is hard to say. For super fine, (read paper thin) veneer, the platten styles are the way to go. For other applications, you may be better off with a drum. The 12 inch drum seems to be a nice compromise but hard as heck to come by. Also these belts are are expensive.

Sanders need a bunch of power. Lou has a 20 HP motor on his 27 inch Timesaver and this is not uncommon. Wide surface sanding takes the juice and that is why many of these sanders have onboard amp meters!

An alternative to the widebelt is the industrial twin drum drum sander. Now most of the two drum drum sanders have the drums working together. In the case of the blue oliver, the drums actually oscillate back and forth which is pretty cool but not as novel as it sounds. More on this later. But I can lift the aft drum and use the front drum only or I can use both drums. The idea is that you have low grit paper on the first drum and finer finish grit on the last drum. To me this is an oxymoron. If I am going to feed a board through one of these two or three or more times, why must I undo the finish work of the previous pass with the roughiean work of the low grit drum on each successive pass through the machine?

In looking at antique machines like the 10,000 pound Royal Invincible three drum sander made by Berlin at the turn of the century, I found that each drum had its own monster motor and that each drum was independently selectable. So not only could I select which drum to turn on, I could also select that drum by itself or I could select any combination of the three drums. Many modern multi drum sanders dont appear to have this ability.

Then the only modern drum sander that actually oscillates its drums is the new blue oliver. Most simply rotate the drum. The oliver has counter oscillating and revolving drums. Again this is not new. Most of the antique drum sanders actually had this feature. The berlin invincible had ossilating drums as did the beach drum sanders. The beach is much smaller than the berlin and it only weighs about 4000 pounds.

Regardless both are large and consume a large footprint of shop space. The berlin had three 5 HP motors with a direct drive scheme. The beach machines I have seen often had a 7.5 HP motor on the first drum with a 5 HP motor on the aft drum. Then these machines had a planer like feed system. That is, a cast iron type table with what appears to be integral feed rollers. The feed motor was often in the range of about 3 to 5 HP.

Modern sanders use rubber conveyor belts. You see this on both the wide belt sanders as well as the drum sanders like those made by Timesaver as well as performex and grizzly. I have not had a peek under the hood here but I believe you will most likely find that these have some form of support platten under there. You also have the mushy characteristics of the belt itself. As the drum begins to dig into the thiner stock being run through there, it strikes me as possible that this process can flex the stock and result in less than perfect flat surface at the other end. Resawn veneer 1/4 in or thinner can truely move and there seems to be plenty of opportunity for this movment in modern feed systems used today. Older machines like the Beach will not have this issue as they are more planer than modern sander.

Then you have the issue with the drum. As many have point out, it is quite possible for you burn your paper and wood if your not removing heat from the process. Small drum sanders with poor thermal chacteristics can do this. But given a wide belt sander with a 6 inch drum and a pure drum sander with a 6 inch drum, which machine will produce a better result? Assuming of course you can remove excess heat as needed?

The thing to consider is this. The drums on older beach sanders can weigh more than your whole unisaw! They are masive logs of steel and can remove heat from the process. I have to believe that the only redeeming feature of the extra complexity of a single belt, 6 inch drum based wide belt sander is its ability to run cool under continous full loading. But one look at an older beach, and I have to wonder how one can overheat one of these old beasties with those massive steel drums.

So after doing a bunch of research into this topic, I find that I have the same question remaining unanswered. Which is better? A wide belt sander or a good drum sander? This is one of the few machines I dont own because I have found these issues to be complex and far from straight forward. David Marks uses a performex sander and Lou uses a wide belt sander. Sorry about picking on you Lou.:D Each is accomplished and each is quite well grounded in the theory of woodworking machines. Two different woodworkers and two different sander solutions.

Now some say that a wide sander is needed for figured grain. If I resaw a figured veneer and laminate it onto a substrate such as baltic birch, then why can I not use a byrd head set to a kissing cut? Likewise, if I resaw lumber into strips for a bent strip lamination project, most of these strips will never exceed 6 or 8 or so inches. Who could concieve of a bent strip lamination project in which the lamina are say 20 or 25 inches or so in width? I would hate to see those forms! So why use a wide belt sander on narrow strips?

So I have to say that this problem is really a paradox. The sander paradox. And if anyone is planing on building a home made sander, some of these issues need to be considered. A problem where a small amount of chaous influence up front can yield a multitude of varying solutions at the end. The sander paradox.

[Frank Pellow]

Thanks for the analysis Dev. As we have all come to expect from you, it is well written and informative.

I am not in the market for either of these types of sander, but I still like to know as much as I can about these tools.

[tod evans]

dev, you`ve allready answered your own questions; sanding requires major horsepower and removing stock with abrasives creats heat. neither of the sanders you mention will provide a stain ready surface right out of the machine. my opinion is that for a 1-3 man shop a single headed widebelt with a removable platten is the most cost effective solution to sanding woes....02 tod

[John Hedges]

David Marks uses a performex sander and Lou uses a wide belt sander.

Dev, just as a note I have watched episodes where David uses his drum sander to do the initial sand on the veneer and then after it is glued to the substrate, he took it to a friends production shop to run it through his wide belt sander.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Well ya know Dev if you build your own double drum sander for a fraction ( a tiny fraction) of the cost of a large unit, you can control the speed to control heat and abrasive breakdown, use multiple motors and even go insanely crazy and install water cooled drums.

Water cooling - Wouldn't that be a hoot?

[Dev Emch]

Well ya know Dev if you build your own double drum sander for a fraction ( a tiny fraction) of the cost of a large unit, you can control the speed to control heat and abrasive breakdown, use multiple motors and even go insanely crazy and install water cooled drums.

Water cooling - Wouldn't that be a hoot?

That is not a far fetched idea. I worked on some burke pumps a while back and these have a unique seal. The seal consisists of one moving element and one fixed element (housing backing). There are a series of interconnected but concentric V grooves. Water under pressure is not able to migrate its way through this series of interlocking V grooves. Its a water viscosity thing. Should cavitation and other factors ultimately permit leaking, the pump has adjustment screws to move the two concentric V groove plates closer together. These pumps are heavy duty industrial pumps and I attached them to direct drive baldor single phase 5 HP 1750 RPM motors using mag starter controls. So its pretty easy to envison a drum using this system.

[Brian Burns]

Hello Dev,

I have been obsessing about this very problem for the last few weeks, and have come up with some design ideas. I make classical guitars, and the East Indian rosewood that I use for backs and sides gums up sandpaper quickly if it develops much heat. I've also used drum sanders and widebelts in furniture making.

My financial situation allows for an entry level widebelt, like Grizzly or Steel City's 15" open end models--around $2300--or a Woodmaster double drum. Another possibility is a shop made sander.

Assumption one: The main advantage of a wide belt is that there is time for the belt to cool as it travels around it's circuit.

Assumption two: A drum sander with a large enough diameter drum would allow time for the paper to cool, provided that the feet per minute of travel is around the same as for a widebelt.

Assumption three: Hook and loop paper will do a satisfactory job of accurate thicknessing without dubbing off the edges of the work, in spite of its "squishyness". The highly rated Woodmaster uses it.

Entry level wide belts use a 48" long belt, traveling at about 1800 feet per minute, so a 16" diameter drum at around 600 rpm would be doing about the same. I'm not counting on the drum to dissipate much heat in either case.

Hook and loop Klingspor paper is available in stearated form, which should help, and I don't use waterborne finishes so the stearate shouldn't cause problems. Also, hook and loop paper can be changed quickly, so changing to finer grits should be easy, and the softer backing reportedly allows for the use of finer grits than can be used on hard drums.

Another solution to thicknessing without tearout is to back-bevel your planer knives. It doesn't cure the problem in the case of extreme grain runout on E-I rosewood, so I don't dare use it on that super spendy wood, but for most situations it makes the planer and jointer safe, regardless of grain direction. I can email .pdf's of the pages from my booklet Double Bevel Sharpening that show how to do it, if anyone is interested.

Does all this make sense?

Cheers,

Brian

[Brian Burns]

Possible drum sander solution
Hello Dev,

I have been obsessing about this very problem for the last few weeks, and have come up with some design ideas. I make classical guitars, and the East Indian rosewood that I use for backs and sides gums up sandpaper quickly if it develops much heat. I've also used drum sanders and widebelts in furniture making.

My financial situation allows for an entry level widebelt, like Grizzly or Steel City's 15" open end models--around $2300--or a Woodmaster double drum. Another possibility is a shop made sander.

Assumption one: The main advantage of a wide belt is that there is time for the belt to cool as it travels around it's circuit.

Assumption two: A drum sander with a large enough diameter drum would allow time for the paper to cool, provided that the feet per minute of travel is around the same as for a widebelt.

Assumption three: Hook and loop paper will do a satisfactory job of accurate thicknessing without dubbing off the edges of the work, in spite of its "squishyness". The highly rated Woodmaster uses it.

Entry level wide belts use a 48" long belt, traveling at about 1800 feet per minute, so a 16" diameter drum at around 600 rpm would be doing about the same. I'm not counting on the drum to dissipate much heat in either case.

Hook and loop Klingspor paper is available in stearated form, which should help, and I don't use waterborne finishes so the stearate shouldn't cause problems. Also, hook and loop paper can be changed quickly, so changing to finer grits should be easy, and the softer backing reportedly allows for the use of finer grits than can be used on hard drums.

Another solution to thicknessing without tearout is to back-bevel your planer knives. It doesn't cure the problem in the case of extreme grain runout on E-I rosewood, so I don't dare use it on that super spendy wood, but for most situations it makes the planer and jointer safe, regardless of grain direction. I can email .pdf's of the pages from my booklet Double Bevel Sharpening that show how to do it, if anyone is interested.

Does all this make sense?

Cheers,

Brian

[Brian Burns]

Sorry for the double post--I got mixed up...

Cheers,

Brian

[Steve Jenkins]

The feed belt on my performax is sandpaper I think it's 80 or 100 grit. It rides across a flat steel table with no padding so you can sand really thin without much problem.
I had a Yates S333 that I ended up giving away. It was a 49" 3 drum that weighed 13,000 lbs and its footprint was abut 10x10. Great old machine that worked really well but I wasn't using it much and wanted the space for something else. As usual though I regret not having it at times.

[Mike Heidrick]

Have you guys seen the $8000 Timesaver Speedsaver?

It can be purchased with a 7.5 hp single phase motor. Weighs in at 1500lbs so no basement installs (usually unless they have walkouts and double doors).

Here is a link. I have been using one at a buddies cabinet shop here in central IL. WOW. Awesome machine for his small cabinet shop. Great for a one or two man setup!!

http://www.speedsander.com/images/SpeedSander_3_4_view.JPG

From the Timesaver site:








Standard Features

37" Width
Combination sanding head (drum and platen)
4" opening (34-38" passline)
37X60" abrasive belt
Rough top conveyor belt
Outboard door interlock
Casters for portability
Digital thickness readout
Abrasive belt trimming device
Infeed emergency stop bar
Conveyor belt tracking
Air activated emergency brake
Electronic abrasive belt tracking
Quick lock holding device for abrasive belt changing
Single and three phase main motors available
15 foot long power cable (plug and receptacle to be provided by customer)
Speedsander by Timesavers was designed with small cabinet, furniture and millwork shops in mind...
Small yet powerful, this versatile machine comes equipped with either a single or three phase main motor, a combination drum/platen sanding head and a variable speed feed drive (via A/C frequency) to handle light dimensioning and finishing.
Economically priced, Speedsander is loaded with user-friendly features such as a quick and easy belt loading system, casters for portability, and electronic abrasive belt tracking to ensure even wear and the best possible finish.
As owners and operators consider ways to help cut hand labor time and increase productivity, the widebelt Speedsander has become the natural "next step".
Now you can enjoy the benefits of a quality widebelt sander for thousands less than you imagined!
Let Speedsander by Timesavers improve your finish, decrease your hand labor and increase your bottom line.

[James Boster]

Well I'll chime in hear with a few obervations of my own. This is the old Ford/Chevy type of fight. What works for some won't for others. I had a woodmaster drum sander some years back and did not like it at all. Now it may have been me crowding it too hard but it always seemed to burn. I have a lot of OLD woodworking machines and prefer the older stuff but could not give up the room for one of the large industrial turn of the century style drums sanders even though I looked at some. I did buy an old Mattison stroke sander ( I know it takes up about as much room) which was in my budget but have never set it up. I do think the stroke sanders would excell at some things the other two wont and hope to someday have mine up and running. I did purchase a new Powermatic 16-32 wide belt a couple of years back. This is the open sided style wide belt. I chose the Powermatic because it has a 54" long belt instead of the 48" like most of the others thinking that it would run cooler, and also I got thorugh amazon when they had it marked down 65% so it was actually cheaper than the other imports. Now does the longer belt help? I really can't answer that but I can tell you that there is a considerable difference between the wide belt and the drum. I personally would choose the wide belt over a drum any time and would advise other to do so. However I understand peoples budgets (been there done that), so if all you can afford is a drum and you don't crowd it, it will do just as good a job. On a machine like this is mostly boils down to how fast do want it to work and how much do you want to spend. Just my two cents.

[J.R. Rutter]

Man, I haven't seen Dev's name in a long time, then I realized how old the original post is.

I've had a single drum sander (performax), double drum sander (extrema), and double widebelt (scmi). Another major reason that the widebelts don't burn is the oscillation. Not only is there more area due to the longer length of the belts, but any problem areas like glue lines are spread out side-to-side as well.

The main issue with drum sanders is the feed speed. If you run them slow, they do a good job until the abrasives dull or load up. For a home shop, that's not a big deal. Each time I upgraded, I was able to run material through twice as fast as before. The finish on a widebelt is better with a platen because it is wide enough to allow dust to build up under it, reducing the depth that the abrasives cut.

[Jeff Duncan]

Well this is quite an old post isn't it? Ah heck, now that it's going again....

The most important factor when deciding which sander to buy hasn't even been touched on yet???? What kind of work your doing and how much of it?

I've used machines from the 16/32 Performax to a 50k+ widebelt, and they get even more complex than Dev described. They have computer controlled platens with individual fingers so you can control the pressure at any given spot on your workpiece. They also have oscillating heads, scotchbrite wheels, and a host of other available features that will really make your head spin. But if your working out of a 2 car garage it's really not even a factor in your purchasing decision.
So how you decide is really quite easy, you figure out what kind of work your doing (at least I hope that part would be easy;)) and how much of it. If your sanding hardwood doors and processing over a hundred a week then a widebelt with or without a platen will do the trick. Need to sand veneered panels? Now you need a high end machine with a platen. There's a lot more to it than that, but no sense in getting to deep into it if it's not an option anyway.
Realistically though if your not a pro, (not sure of the percentage of pro's on here), your not likely going to need, nor be able to justify the expense of a widebelt. A drum sander certainly has it's limitations but it gives the small shop owner an alternative to the widebelt. It will also see a much quicker ROI for a small shop allowing other purchases to be made. I currently use a dual drum and it gets the job done. If I need wider I go to a buddy's shop and jump on his widebelt. It allowed me to make money without a huge investment and when I'm ready to upgrade it will be to a single head Timesaver.
JeffD

[Brian Burns]

Hi Jeff,

Building classical guitars is certainly not a high volume business, but accurate surfacing is a large part of it. As I mentioned in my first post, about the most I can afford to spend would be at the entry level widebelt like Grizzly's 3hp 15" model, around $2300. My concern is that it would not solve the problems we are having with rosewood resin buildup on the sandpaper using our current low tech solution:

http://www.schrammguitars.com/gilberttools.html

This disc is about as low cost a solution as you might imagine, and the amazing thing is that a number of guitarmakers make it work! I've not had much success, except on spruce, wr cedar, and cypress. And, needless to say it's s-l-o-w.

Cheers,

Brian

[Jeff Duncan]

Hi Brian,
First off....I'd be lying if I claimed to have much knowledge on the aspects of guitar building. Certainly a specialty among the many woodworking fields. Having said that I would recommend you at least take a look at the possibility of a stroke sander. From your description of what's needed I think it may just fit the bill better than any of the other options.
With a stroke sander you have a much longer belt than even the widebelts for added cooling. You also have capability to really use a light touch and fine tune exactly where you want to sand. It would certainly be faster and I imagine more accurate than the disc sander you linked to. I've used several different widebelt sanders and a couple drum sanders and though I'm far from being an expert I would say they're probably not the right solution for you. The stroke is a much more user driven machine and I believe would give you the control and accuracy you need for this particular type of work.
Another advantage is if you pick up a used machine you can probably get something superior to a Grizzly for next to nothing. Up here in the Northeast I see asking prices for ready to work stroke sanders at about $500 on average.
That's my advice for what it's worth...
good luck,
JeffD

[Ben Abate]

I have looked at this for sometime, years in fact. I'm not a professional but have been around woodworking for the most part of 25 years. I believe all info that has been stated here is pretty much right on. I once owned a Woodmaster 20 inch combination Planer, Molder, Sander. Of the three tasks this machine could perform the sanding was the most unsatisfying task. Burning, clogging the paper and changing the paper was too time consuming. I also have had the chance to use a Performax machine, I was not impressed. Possibly if you have one or two items and have the time to fool with it you may or will get good results. I recently was able to pick up a 25 inch wide belt from one of our fellows here on Sawmill Creek. Like I said I'm not a professional but I know what to look for and what I don't want out of a sander. The wide belt was easily hands down a better machine with less trouble and I think a pretty great finish.

What James B. and JR said pretty much sums up I think about the two machines. Remember too, dust extraction has a lot to do with how your piece turns out.

[Mark Singer]

I have the General 24" double drum . I recently converted to Woodmaster's hook and loop system by just adding velcro tape and using the Mirka 6" wide roll paper. It is a lot better machine now! More forgiving and the paper holds up longer. The 6" wide belt has fewer laps and more solid surface than 3 or 4"

[Brian Burns]

Hi Jeff,

The stroke sander is certainly a likely option, and there's no doubt that the belt length would do a good job of limiting heat buildup. I used one once when I worked in a production furniture shop in 1965.

I was given the job of sanding a batch of 40 glued up solid oak shelves. I had been working for them for about two weeks, and had scored a coup by setting the jointer to produce a slightly sprung joint, and gluing up the shelves with one double sided clamp each, just using all the clamps that were available.

I guess they figured that I was skilled, so they put me to sanding them with the stroke sander. I made such a mess of them that one of the actually skilled guys had to do them all over! I've had an undeserved antipathy to the machine ever since!

My dad used to say that I would have to earn a living with my head, because I would sure as hell never do it with my hands. I make up for my native clumsiness by being good at making jigs and fixtures (:->)... So I'm afraid that I had better come up with a machine that has the accuracy built in.

Cheers,

Brian

[Jeff Duncan]

Most of us fall at least once when learning to ride a bike, right? So your first run with a stroke sander was a less than happy experience. No big deal, like anything worthwhile, it takes a bit of practice.
I personally don't have any firsthand experience operating one, but I've seen some old timers do great work with them. If I had the space I'd have one in my shop already. A lot of the guys who do intricate veneers use them also, b/c it gives you much more control than the alternatives. That is once you get past the learning curve:)
good luck,
JeffD

[Brian Burns]

Hello All,

I thought that you might like to know that I've pretty well decided on the Grizzly G9983 15" open end widebelt. Anyone have any experience with Grizzly widebelts? Years ago Grizzly machinery was, shall we say, of somewhat doubtful quality? I'm assured by a machinist friend that those days are past, but would like to hear of anyone's direct experience.

Part of what decided me to stretch my budget to the next machine up the scale ($3300) is its having a contact drum, idler drum, and a polishing platen for finish sanding.

Also I discovered a source for stearated belts to help with the rosewood resin buildup problem:

Uneeda Enterprizes: www.sandpaper.com.

And I found a company that specializes in widebelt cleaning supplies:

http://www.abrasive service.com/ (http://www.abrasiveservice.com/)

So it looks like a widebelt for me.

Cheers,

Brian

[Perry Holbrook]

Brian, I was just wondering if you considered the Steel City machine. I noticed it is about $1000 cheaper and weighs about half as much as the Grizzly, so they are probably not comparable.

Perry

[Ben Abate]

Brian,
I have no experience with the Grizzly but I will say that a few fellows that I have spoke to seem to think they are in line with the PowerMatics and the North States sold by LeNeave in Norht Carolina. I've talked to many people about the 15-17 inch machines and most believe the two that I have stated are the top of the line in this arena. I believe one difference is the availability of the platin (sp) for sanding veneers or thin material. The fellow that I bought my 25 inch from believed he got just as good of a finish without the platin (sp) I've only had mine a short time so I could not give a good summary about it. But as I mentioned the fellows I have spoke to say the Grizzly is a good machine. For one thing you know they are going to be around awhile and Grizzly has improved their quality in the past few years to be able to compete with most anyone in the Asian market. All of these machines are built or at least manufactured in Asia, most come from the same factory. Only some companies have higher standard I'm sure you are aware of that. Unless you can find a North State or PowerMatic used in great condition I wouldn't hesitate with the purchase of the Grizzly if the budget allows. As was mentioned in one of the other fellows posts these machines are not the ideal machine for sanding veneers. I believe you can make a sled of sort and sand them that way or adhere them to a substrate and then pass them thru. I would actually like to hear from anyone who has a smaller machine to see how they handle veneers on single head wide belt sander. Especially veneers that have been resawn from larger stock. If you're considering a used machine take a look at the X-Factorys website under wide belts. There are always some good deals there and I have seen some companies advertise new machines there also.

Good luck with the new purchase.

[Brian Burns]

Hi Ben and Perry,

I did consider the Leneave Northstate (aka Powermatic) but just as I was ready to buy one, the price went up dramatically, and the freight was going to be over $500 to get it here from NC. I also considered the Steel City machine, as I had recently bought a Steel City drill press that is quite well built.

What has decided me on the Grizzly is that the price is about $1500 less than the Northstate, and it has a polishing platen for finish sanding, which the Steel City machine lacks. The Northstate has a 60" belt as compared to the 48" belts on the other machines, and has a 30 or so feet per minute top feed speed for finish sanding, both of which are desirable features, just not $1500 desirable.

So, I checked with Grizzly to see if they were anticipating any price rises, and they said that they had skipped their summer sale, to avoid raising prices in the fall. I've got a guitarmaking student coming for the month of August (from Ireland!), so I'll be ordering the Grizzly G9983 in September.

Cheers,

Brian

[Dino Drosas]

I went through this same agony trying to choose the right sander. I had both a single and double drum sander and was not the least bit happy with either one of them. After much researching and shopping I wound up buying the Northstate 17" open end sander form Leneave Supply. I definately feel that I made the right choice. It is extremely well built and operated flawlessly right out of the crate. I went with the 3 phase 7.5 hp. Amp draw is very small and during a sanding operation I can change from one grit to another in about 30 seconds. I have it mounted on Zambus casters and its footprint in minimal when not in use. This is the exact sander that Powermatic sells at well over $1000. more than the Northstate ($3950).

[Ben Hobbs]

I bought a 25 in. Powermatic wide belt sander in 1986. It performed well, but it started having tracking problems. A friend, who had a cabinet shop and a 43 in. Halsty wide belt sander, contacted me and asked if I would interested in buying it. He sold it to me for $1000. After spending $350 on a new switch, it has performed magnificently. My advice to anyone would be to look around at other shops for machines that are not being used. Ben

[Rick Fisher]

Well, I am just a hobby woodworker.
I have the General 15" Wide Belt Sander and the General 24" Double Drum.

If I had to give one up, it would be the Double Drum. The Wide Belt does a better job and I can change grits in under a minute.

These are pretty humble machines compared to the units listed on here. I like having both, because the 15" Wide Belt doesnt do a good job of wider panels.

As far as the Double Drum, re-sanding its origional work. I agree. I am considering just running the same grit on both drums.


PS.

I call the Double Drum a "Drama Queen". I put a Wixey on it because if I try to take a bit too much off, the V-Belts sqeal, the wood heats up and the paper life goes down hill. With the Wixey, I can tell how much I have adjusted it. It appears this will be a great addition to this tool.

[Brian Burns]

Hi Dino, Ben, and Rick

The Northstate would be my first choice, but when I checked a month ago the price had risen to $4350 and the best freight rate was well over $500 to get it to my shop from NC. That is perilously close to $5000, compared to $3500 for the Grizzly, delivered to my door. As I said before, the extra features of the Northstate are certainly desirable, but not for an additional $1500.

I'm leery of a used machine because I need all the accuracy I can get, and the central area of the machine's bed is usually worn down more than the edges.

So what's a "wixey" ?

Cheers,

Brian

[Chris Padilla]

Brian,

I'm a little confused how Rick is using the Wixey as this is a little square box that tells one the angle of something with a nice little digital readout. They are quite handy for dialing in the tilt on a table saw blade, for example.

Yes, I know this is months out of date but I found this post and had to answer! ;)

[Brian Backner]

Chris,

While Wixey does have a digital angle gauge, they also resell a digital height gauge that could be adapted to a drum sander, surface planer, etc. See:

http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=148380&FamilyID=20350

You could also use a 1" range dial indicator.

Brian

[Chip Lindley]

Dev, in your *BLOG* I do believe you are *preaching to the choir* with your rhetorical questioning of this subject.

The differences and capabilities between drum and wide belt sanders are all too obvious to all but the neophyte woodworker. I use an ol' Grizz 24" double drum because it is affordable!! It does an adequate job in the my small scale operation, with small quantity needs. But, if my needs change, (or find a real bargain) I will upgrade, FerSure!!

Is up to YOU alone to decide, Dev! You have presented your researched information very well. Anyone in a solely commercial situation will choose the most productive solution to his need. Large capital expenditures can be amortized. The cost of running the machine is factored in. A 20HP wide belt would really make my meter spin!! The Co-Op I am on might suffer a *brown out!*

My bottom line is, Any wide drum/belt sander is better than NONE! Producing smooth panels is paramount to nice finishing. Nothing else produces a flat surface ready for further finishing in a reasonable amount of time, or outlay of precious $$$, IMHO.

All of us working in a small shop have our *druthers* but find the reality of our present situation cannot support *industrial strength* solutions. There are lots of machines I would love to have if my piggy bank were bottomless! A CNC Router! A complete machine shop to tinker in! A shop the size of Gilley's honkytonk! ...my list goes on....

[Rick Fisher]

The wixey is a height guage.

The problem with this sander is there is some slop in the height adjustment handle.

The wixey isnt great for telling me actual thickness but its awesome for telling me wether I have just adjusted 1/24th or 1/128th. When sanding wider stuff, its the difference between burning, squealing and re-wrapping drums or just good results..


http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Wixey-1.jpg