Bench Renovation - the bench to build a bench!

[Alan DuBoff]

I've been in this catch-22 trying to get setup for solid handwork...that being that I need to build a nice bench. The problem was described by Deirdre as a bootstrap problem, which I love to use as an analogy being that I'm a software engineer by trade.

In preperation to build a nice bench, I had an old beatup bench in my garage that the previous owner had built. It turned out to have some serious problems, so I had to cut the top square (a story in itself, the previous owner skewed 8' 2x4s as he built it on the inside of studs which are 8' on center). One end was skewed and distored, and I never could understand why, but when I really looked at it I figured out what had happened. Got that all fixed and all nails replaced with decking screws (I hate nails, especially in this use).

I created an apron out of hickory and purple heart. I had a bunch of purple heart flooring left over from a previous project, so took the stock down to remove the grooves from the bottom and finish from the top, and laminated 4 pieces (2x2) to form 6/4 pieces for the ends.

This is not complete yet, but here's some pics after I got it glued up last night. I haven't cleaned it up at all, it still needs to be hand planed, but the ends and front are also splined with the same 3/16" hardboard that will go on the top. I have a LV quick release vise to put on here, with a 3" hickory jaw.

This will act as a cap and fit over the top of the old bench to clean it up, you can see how much grease the previous owner left me on the bench...:o

These joints were hand cut with a pair of small joinery saws I got from Mike Wenzloff.

Not the best of joints, but I'm getting a little better at dovetails. I was originally planning to use a half blind rather than a through, but due to the size of the 6/4 stock, there wasn't enough room to have 3 tiers easily. As this was, it was fairly difficult to get in between the pins, but it was doable with my smallest 1/8" chisel.

http://www.softorchestra.com/woodworking/tools/bench_renovation/small_closeup.jpg
http://www.softorchestra.com/woodworking/tools/bench_renovation/

Thanks for looking!;)

[Steve Clardy]

Looking great Alan!!

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Looks really impressive. That hickory is pretty (as, of course, is the purpleheart).

[Alan DuBoff]

Thanks, it's good to get some of this done finally. I'm really looking forward to building a nice bench after I get this out of the way.

It's actually starting to function now:

http://www.softorchestra.com/woodworking/tools/bench_renovation/small_top_mounted.jpg

http://www.softorchestra.com/woodworking/tools/bench_renovation/

[Mark Stutz]

I love the houndstooth DTs, Alan. Hopefully, you'll tell me that they look harder to do than they really are:D , as I'm hopeful that I'll be able to tackle something like that one of these days.

Mark

[Alan DuBoff]

I love the houndstooth DTs, Alan. Hopefully, you'll tell me that they look harder to do than they really are:D , as I'm hopeful that I'll be able to tackle something like that one of these days.Mark,

I won't say they're not harder than a through dovetail in this case, since this is basically a through dovetail with a 3 tier houndstooth. But they're not much more complicated, IMO, and for the marginal amount of extra work, they're worth it to me.

I wanted to do a half blind for these joints, but what I found out was that because the stock for the tails is only 6/4 (laminated scrap purple heart flooring), 1 1/2" wasn't enough thickness to use some for the lap, and the rest or the joint. So, I modified it to be a through dovetail. I will do half blinds on the bench I build using this bench, but it will have a double lamination of 8/4 walnut for the ends. that will give me over 3" of tail depth to work with after using about 1/4"-1/2" for the lap.

For all intents and purpose, this is very much the same as cutting a through dovetail for the pins, since you basically cut all of the pins as you normally would, and then just trim down the wide side of the pin to match the respective tail.

The tails are a bit harder, but not very much more, IMO. One problem I ran into, especially when first trying to do this with a half blind, is that there isn't enough room and I had to make my pins a bit wider as I didn't have a small enough chisel, so enlarged them so they would be at least as wide as a 1/8" chisel on the wide end of the smallest tails, if that makes sense. The smaller the pin, the narrower the wide side will be if you try to keep the narrow/top of the pin small. One could use a wider angle also, and I used 1:8 on these. 1:6 could give more comfort to work with on the small pins, but I like the narrower angles myself, and with narrow pins it leaves no question that the dovetails were hand cut. I see folks hand cut big fat wide dovetails and they look like a machine had done them to my untrained eye.

I use a fret saw to cut the waste out. I also use a fret saw to relieve the bottom of the pins when chopping away the extra from the smaller pins. You can only cut the corners, but if careful can get a cut across the entire bottom/wide portion of the pin. You only want to get close and par to the line with a chisel in this case.

This is pretty much my first houndstooth to incorporate into a project, and while this is not my first dovetail joint, I wouldn't call myself an expert by any means. This is something I very much enjoy doing, the hand cut joinery is possibly my favorite area of woodworking.

The one joint on my list of projects, that I must do, is the double dovetail. If you're not familiar with the double dovetail, you can see it in this article that was published almost 5 years ago, for a puzzle malet written by Stephen Shepherd.

Puzzle Mallet (http://www.ilovewood.com/woodworker.htm)

[Ganthan Rhodes]

Nice job, Alan! You've been a busy guy.

[Alan DuBoff]

Nice job, Alan! You've been a busy guy.Well, I've been more busy with work, and took last week off to get things cleaned up in my garage. Unfortunately I didn't get everything done I needed to, and am trying to get a small shed setup for my kids bikes, sporting equip, etc...to clear some more space up, and I'm also putting 36" high shelving to be used as counter space around the entire garage. I think this is like incorporating "The Not So Big House" concept to the garage. Maximize the counter space, add shelving up high and below, and the space will be more functional for me.

In some ways I've been torn on what I did to that bench. I didn't want to invest much time into it, yet I wanted it to be functional. Primarily I wanted to build a decent bench with it, but I do want to use it in the future, for work in the garage. I should point out that I have a concept where I'm seperating my shop into power and hand work, and the garage will be where I dimension lumber and timbers with the power tools for projects that I will do all the joinery, assembly, and detail work by hand.

This is an 8' bench, and the other bench with only be 6', so this could come in handy for making moulding, or other such stuff where 8' would be a plus.

[Tyler Howell]

Well Done Alan.
A shame to be hiding in the Shop.
It should be in the living room on display.:cool:

[Alan DuBoff]

Thanks for the compliments Tyler, but I'll have to keep it in the garage. I don't like tools near the grand piano, nor my double bass, and the garage IS like my livingroom as of recent! :D

This is just a taste of what's to come on the bench I build, using this one.;)

A bench is a "Right of Passage" where a person becomes a woodworker, IMO.:)

[Tyler Howell]

A bench is a "Right of Passage" where a person becomes a woodworker, IMO.:)
I've had this discussion many times with other WW that insist on buying their bench:confused: .
Still working up to mine.
Strokes for folks;) .

[Jerry Olexa]

Nice work. Well done...

[James Mittlefehldt]

I've had this discussion many times with other WW that insist on buying their bench:confused: .
Still working up to mine.
Strokes for folks;) .

It is my contention that workbenches and tool boxes are like good lasagna, you don't buy it, you make it.

Actually my workbench is the single biggest thing I have ever built to date, when I built it I had a workmate to work with, and a piece of veneered particle board on two saw horses. I built the trestle first and then it was able to supposrt the planks I used for the top. Which I noted with some interest last week that Roy Underhill on his show did the same thing, so I must have some intuitive knowledge I guess.

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

A bench is a "Right of Passage" where a person becomes a woodworker, IMO.:)

I remember making my first, hand-chopping M&T joints while watching TV -- since I didn't have a bench, the couch was as good a place as any to work.

[Alice Frampton]

A bench is a "Right of Passage" where a person becomes a woodworker, IMO.:) I've had this discussion many times with other WW that insist on buying their bench:confused: . I believe you mean "rite of passage". Incidentally I bought mine, but luckily I don't have to rely on your parameters to know if I'm a woodworker or not.

Cheers, Alf

[Alan DuBoff]

I've had this discussion many times with other WW that insist on buying their bench:confused:.Everyone goes about this a different way. Traditionally an apprentice would be required to build their bench. I don't think there is anything wrong with folks buying their own bench, I just am not doing that myself.

James, I also plan to build the base first, for my next bench (i.e., the "real" bench).

I believe you mean "rite of passage". Incidentally I bought mine, but luckily I don't have to rely on your parameters to know if I'm a woodworker or not.Alf, grammar is not one of my strong points. I think I presented an opinion, not a parameter, so you can place your own opinion on yourself, I don't reserve any right to do so myself!;):D

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

I don't think it matters whether someone buys their bench or makes it, though certainly one can get a more custom feel by making it. On the other hand, if you're not working at it full time, the shortcomings probably aren't going to annoy you as much.

I hand-built my first bench, but I got a lot more out of my second bench (which I bought). My first bench taught me less about what I needed in a bench than my second one did.

I might build a bench, but then I might prefer to build furniture instead. :)

[Alan DuBoff]

Deirdre,

There's nothing wrong with wanting to spend time building furniture rather than a bench, and yes a lot of benches are just fine that can be bought. In fact, the bench in this thread will function to build most anything I would want to build, and would allow me to build fine furniture by using it. But it doesn't have some of the features I would like to have while building furniture, so it seems like a worthwhile investment of time to build one that can function in that way.

For that matter, it might seem like a waste of time to some that I'm taking the time to organize my workspace, focusing on my garage, at the moment.

I read a few books by Sarah Susanka, who writes "The Not So Big House" series (there are variations of it and related topics). One of the things she focuses on is dual purpose use of space, and the Japanese are very good at this as they have such limited space in Japan. I looked around my garage and decided that I have shelves around 2 entire walls, so it makes sense for that space to be counter space as well. By adding some steel rivited shelving in a 36" high config, they can be used for counter space. I can still have shelves above, and then I have the actual rivited shelving below. It's a great use of space, and it only costs a minimal investment as the rivited shelving is cheap and it comes with mdf for the shelves. Sure, not the best, but thicker and more mdf can be added, the shelves hold 1500 lbs each.

I think of a bench in the same regard, and a simple bench will do (the above will do if I wanted it to;-). I can incorporate drawers for use as tool storage. I can add features that will make it easier to do things I plan, twin-screw vise for dovetailing boards, emmert clone to hold unusual shapes, or to rotate work for carving/shaping. At the same time I can still do nice joinery on the bench, and in many ways it is a piece of furniture, but one that does something special...it let you build more furniture with it.:D

There is no question, one can invest quite a bit of $$$s in bench hardware, and one can also invest a lot of $$$s in the wood to make one (even for 2x4 lumber at the BORG). But a bench is an invaluable tool that continues to repay it's investment over tiime, like no other tools for the most part, IMO. To some (like me) the workbench is a personal tool, and to others it's not. This is not to say that one way is better or worse since it is after all about the mindset one places themself in and/or why they do woodworking to begin with. Everyone should have the privilege of deciding how they want to their bench to be, and why it is a personal choice. Many of us work differently after all.

[Mike Wenzloff]

I agree with both you, Alan, and Alf, best summed up in Tyler's statement of different strokes.

Woodworking is often a solitaire undertaking. A personal journey. Hopefully we each decide what is necessary to further our own path down this madness of woodworking.

Back in the day of apprenticeships, it was too often decided for the apprentice. It was a good system for those seeking to become master cabinet makers I believe.

But most today are hobby-makers who do not have the luxury of immersion of the craft. So we pick and choose. Sometimes our choices further our understanding in concrete ways, and sometimes there is a seeming setback due to a lack of knoweldge. But that too advances the person willing to learn.

What we each choose to learn from is but a choice. An individual choice. My preference is to learn technique from concrete projects that end up being used in the shop. A good friend charges in on the furniture projects he makes. We both learn.

Take care, Mike

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

I see Alan's point about a workbench being a tool -- but on the other hand, I've bought more tools than I've made, too. Whatever floats one's boat.

In my case, I live with chronic pain, so that means that my time in the shop is more limited than the clock indicates. I need to get in, get some work done until I reach that pain threshhold, and get out. It's only because of my taking yoga for several months that I could even approach the issue of woodworking again.

Given that, hand tool woodworking is an odd choice, granted, but several of the medications I take warn about operating machinery. Plus, I like making furniture and I have a very small space, so it seemed a good compromise (that and doing more physical work has been helping reduce my pain over time, so I may have reduced pain PLUS furniture after a while).

Anyhow, I expect I'll make another bench eventually, but it wouldn't be for quite a while.

Just as an aside: it fascinates me that woodworking is one of the few hobbies where people DO make their own tools.

[Alan DuBoff]

I agree with both you, Alan, and Alf, best summed up in Tyler's statement of different strokes.Yes, and I didn't mean to imply that Alf was any less of a woodworker, I think that was her point (well taken;-) because she bought her bench. Rather, she's a very accomplished woodworker who I've learned things from myself.

I think many folks are aligned on being able to select, it's like pro-choice woodworkers.:eek:

I see Alan's point about a workbench being a tool -- but on the other hand, I've bought more tools than I've made, too. Whatever floats one's boat.

In my case, I live with chronic pain, so that means that my time in the shop is more limited than the clock indicates.
(...)
Anyhow, I expect I'll make another bench eventually, but it wouldn't be for quite a while.

Just as an aside: it fascinates me that woodworking is one of the few hobbies where people DO make their own tools.I just wanted to point out that a workbench is only a part, really our shop and/or environment we have to work in does dictate to some extent how we work. I would encourage you to think about designing some tailored workspace, or pieces to help you to make woodworking easier on yourself.

As an example, I will use one of my own. I currently find that I can't endure whie standing for a long time. We all get old, and wether I can or not stand, I don't want to stand for 4 hours at a time, when I can do a lot of it on a stool. As a temp solution, I have a stool I can use, but I would like to make a stool to compliment my working needs.

I have other pieces I'd like to build also, like a shaving horse, a saw bench, etc...

How we setup our work environment, and how we work is very unique to ourselves. It's worth investing some time into making it the best suited for our own individual needs. It's worth taking a step back and trying to understand how the space is used, how effecient it is, and how it can be made better. It can be a tradeoff between how much one wants to invest in something based on their perceived value.

Then again, what do I know (he says in jest)? I am only a hobbyist woodworker. Not that there's anything wrong with that BTW. I feel that some of the best pieces are made by hobbyist ;-) But someone such as a professional might look at his space differently, and/or the time he invests into make it right for him. I think overall that there's a lot of diversity amongst both hobbyists and professionals, because we are all just human afterall.;)

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

As an example, I will use one of my own. I currently find that I can't endure whie standing for a long time. We all get old, and wether I can or not stand, I don't want to stand for 4 hours at a time, when I can do a lot of it on a stool. As a temp solution, I have a stool I can use, but I would like to make a stool to compliment my working needs.

I have other pieces I'd like to build also, like a shaving horse, a saw bench, etc...

I can't stand for a long time either, so I think this may be part of the reason a shaving horse appeals to me. I also do a lot of my work on a stool, but would like to make a better one.

BTW, I have to have a shaving horse built by the time I take the Boggs class in August, so that will be one of my earlier projects.

[Alan DuBoff]

I can't stand for a long time either, so I think this may be part of the reason a shaving horse appeals to me. I also do a lot of my work on a stool, but would like to make a better one.

BTW, I have to have a shaving horse built by the time I take the Boggs class in August, so that will be one of my earlier projects.It's something on my list of projects also, it's just something I want to have. Seems like a nice way to work on a nice day, outside. Just rake up the savings after you're done.;-)

When I build a stool, I want it to be the comfortable height for my bench, opposed to being a comfortable height for a bar stool.;-)

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Yes, the luxury of working outside has just begun to appeal to me. I got a Tormek at the woodworking show today and I was considering setting it up on our patio tomorrow night (presuming I could steal a table and a chair from the Linux group, which is not a given).

Why, I could sharpen all my plane blades (something I was actually dreading before, but am now looking forward to).

[Alan DuBoff]

Yes, the luxury of working outside has just begun to appeal to me.Today was nice for the first time in a while. I opened the french doors and turned on some jazz, it was really nice.

I got a Tormek at the woodworking show today and I was considering setting it up on our patio tomorrow night (presuming I could steal a table and a chair from the Linux group, which is not a given).

Why, I could sharpen all my plane blades (something I was actually dreading before, but am now looking forward to).I have a friend with a Tormek, and I took a bunch of my chisels over to him and sharpened them about a year ago. I now have a Lap-Sharp, which I really like a lot.

Last weekend when I was working on this bench, I took a break for about 2 hours and sharpened up close to 2 dozen chisels and 3 plane blades (No 8, No 4, 60 1/2).

I was counting chisels and realized I have close to 3 dozen vintage chisels. I have about 8-10 bench chisels (Stanley and Pexto), 6-8 firmers, ~8 paring chisels, 3 hefty millright mortise chisels, and a few others. When I build the next bench, I want to build a chisel holder that will fit in the drawer, but pull out to be used on top of the bench, allowing it to be used as a stand.

EDIT: is CABAL again tomorrow? Looks like it on the BALE list. Maybe I'll try to drop by tomorrow, and if I do bring that chunk of walnut for you.