Is this a Neanderthal Tool?

[harry strasil]

I hope this doesn't get me in trouble, but I am sure Neanderthals have power tools stashed away somewhere, and this is a Neanerthal, anyway I think it is. LOL:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/radialarm1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/radialarm2.jpg

[Michael Morin dit Boucher]

Harry?...I think you are pushing the envelope but I think your good standing in the group and the lack of all that 'safety' stuff associated with this saw, indeed makes it a Neanderthal Tool!...sort of..:rolleyes:

[harry strasil]

Have you ever seen the forefather of the radial arm saw, it was a swing saw and was line shaft powered.

[Jim Becker]

'Love that comprehensive blade guard!! :)

Interesting tool no matter how it is/was powered. Harry, how would it have been line shaft powered relative to movement of the saw head? I'm trying to picture how the belt setup would work...

[Chuck Saunders]

The saw pivots about the axis of the top pulley of the belt feeding the saw. Like a pendulum
Hope that helps some
Chuck

[harry strasil]

a quick sketch, side and front views, these things were dangerous and usually had 16 inch blades on them. try a search for swing saw, there may be a picture of one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/swingsaw.jpg

[harry strasil]

http://www.owwm.com/MfgIndex/image.asp?id=1041

[Bruce Page]

http://www.owwm.com/MfgIndex/image.asp?id=1041

That's down right scary!

You're "radial arm saw" is kind of cool though.

[Steve Clardy]

Boy thats a golden oldie!!

Swing saws.
Some of the older pallet shops still use swing saws.
Used to cut the cants to length, etc. 4x8, 6x6, etc.
5 hp motors. Seen a couple with no guards. Just a bare blade hanging out there. eek!!

[Chuck Saunders]

Even scarier is a shingle saw, The blade comes up from below, and the sawer holds the shingle on either side of the blade. And it's a BIG blade
Chuck

[Michael Gibbons]

Harry. That thing looks like a Health and Safety violation! Does OSHA know about that??

[harry strasil]

Not sure which power tool you are referring too, but I don't want to get into my opinion of OSHA.
I have been operating power tools for 55+ years and my father told me that powered machinery is dangerous, that was good enough for me.
The only time I have ever had a serious injury was using another persons power tool that had all the so called safety devices in place and trying to work around all those devices to be able to use the tool got me good.
As far as health, my saw has a dust collector as well as an on/off switch, and as far as safety that is in the hands of the operator whether he has enough common sense to operate the tool safely.
In my opinion all the so called safety devices make a tool almost impossible to use, impairs vision and gives you a false sense of security. That's why I like old tools.

My 2¢ worth

[tod evans]

yeah harry! i agree 100% tod

[Jerry Olexa]

Not the safest tool in the shed:D :) Be careful

[Alan DuBoff]

Not the safest tool in the shed:D :) Be carefulInteresting that several folks comment on the safety of this non-neander tool.

How many edge tools that are sharp aren't dangerous? Why would a power tool be any different? Folks used saws like that for years and were able to use common sense...don't put your hand near a spinning blade. Seems like a fairly simple procedure when using the saw.:confused:

In answer to the subject of this thread, NO, that is not a neander tool and if you have to ask this is probably not the place to post it while you learn what one is.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Wow Harry you just gave me a cool idea for building a saw mill.

[Steve Clardy]

Interesting that several folks comment on the safety of this non-neander tool.

How many edge tools that are sharp aren't dangerous? Why would a power tool be any different? Folks used saws like that for years and were able to use common sense...don't put your hand near a spinning blade. Seems like a fairly simple procedure when using the saw.:confused:

In answer to the subject of this thread, NO, that is not a neander tool and if you have to ask this is probably not the place to post it while you learn what one is.


Alan. I took this as a jokingly post from Harry.;) :)

[James Mittlefehldt]

Alan. I took this as a jokingly post from Harry.;) :)

I took it the same way Steve, it was obviously a tounge in cheek post, nothing more.

[Chris Barton]

Well, I have been waiting to post here because I knew that some might take the original post the wrong way. So, is it neander? Not in the strict sense, it has a cord and runs off power. Is it frightfully scary? You bet! Between the pully belts that are finger removers to the right and the virtually unguarded blade on the left I think it would be a show piece and not a work piece in my shop.

[Steve Clardy]

Hey Harry. Is that an old Montgomery saw???

Almost bought one similar a few years back, for what reason I have no idea.

[Frank Chaffee]

I hope that we Homo sapiens do as well developing technologies as Neanderthal man did.

Frank

[harry strasil]

I must apologize to Sawmill Creek and those who frequent Neanderthal Haven, I had no idea that this thread was gonna be turned into a can of worms so to speak.

I thought this was a place where users of old Woodworking tools would appreciate seeing an old tool that is used often and has been restored. I did modify it some by adding a switch near the hand that operates it instead of out of the way on a wall somewhere.

Am I going to loose fingers in the open belt drive system? Not as long as I have my hand on the handle that operates it.

Is it scary, yes, all old tools are scary, but they are usable if you respect them and what they can do if that respect is lost. I have been using that old woodworking tool for 20+ years and have never even had a minor accident with it. It does the job it was intended to do.

In the sense that Neanderthal is used in this part of the forum I believe it refers to Old Hand Tools and Old Hand Tool Users.

Is it an Old Tool? Yes!

Is it operated by hand? Yes, other wise it just sets there and spins.

Is it operated by an Old Man? Yes, and he can still count to ten on his fingers.

Is it dangerous? Yes, all sharp tools are dangerous whether they are powered by hand, by foot, or by a little more modern means, Water Wheel, Steam Engine or that new Fangled thing Edison invented many years ago.

If I have to ask if this is a Neander (Old) tool or not, Indeed I shall endeavor to make it a point to learn what a Neander (Old) Tool is.

No it is not a Monkey Ward, it is a Miter Master-Model "A" made by the R.W. Hendricks Co. of Marblehead, Mass.

Wood Workers as well as the craftsmen in other trades in the past and the present and into the future are going to use more modern tools as they become available to help them perform their chosen profession. A few are going to shun the more modern tools to preserve the traditions and the skills of the past to keep them alive for future generations.

If you use a relatively modern all metal hand plane instead of a mostly wooden one does that mean you are not a neanderthal in the sense it is used on this forum? No, the all metal plane is still an (Old) Tool.

Many Wood Workers use fancy and expensive new planes, chisels and hand saws made of exotic materials, they are still neanderthals as they are modern hand tools used with old methods.

The Evolution of tools is a fascinating subject. In the evolution of the simple process of cutting a board to length, there is the hand saw, a little more modern picture of a swing saw, then a little more modern version called a cutoff or early radial arm saw, and we all know what a modern Radial arm saw looks like, all these are a look back in the history of making the simple task of cutting a board to length quicker and more accurate.

Lets end this banter before it gets out of hand, I urge the moderator or administrater to lock this thread or delete it altogether before it gets out of hand.

Again I apoligize for starting it in the first place. and this long post.

[Mike Wenzloff]

No apologies necessary Harry.

I think it was a fun post--as originated.

You are one of the most neander people I know.

Take care, Mike

[Jim Becker]

Harry...maybe it's closer to Cro-Magnon rather than fully Neander. And I too, understood your intent, even as primarily a tailed-tool user. It is an interesting tool, although I don't think I'd like to use it!

[Alan DuBoff]

Alan. I took this as a jokingly post from Harry.;) :) Steve,

You didn't see the humor in my post?;)

Contrary to what anyone wants to believe, it's an old power tool, period.

No offense meant to Harry, and he posts some great info, it's just not a hand tool, even if you must use your hand to move the spinning blade. Heck, it's easy to use that analogy and make all power tools hand tools in that sense.

Yes, it's an old tool. It isn't a hand tool. Sorry if this fact bothers folks, but it's the cold hard truth, it has a motor that turns the blade, and that motor operates on electricity.

It's easy enough for me to ignore this thread, just that I thought this was the hand tool forum, and it seemed to me that it would be more appropriate to post in the general and power tool forum, but what do I know...:D According to the TOS, an off topic message is allowed:

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4. Off-Topic (OT) Posts
Off-topic posts that are general in nature are allowed in the appropriate forums.
----

I can live with it, but to me it's not the appropriate forum when one does exist.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Just as a note folks. I try to use a very light hand when moderating posts as to what is or isn't allowed. Harry's post is strictly speaking not hand tools, but IS in "the spirit" of our charter here. I've left it because it does not offend, doesn't violate terms of service, and allows a bit of humerous interplay between folks. This is not an invitation to bring in a bunch of power tool topics though. I generally try and give folks the benefit of the doubt when assessing whether or not a post is allowed. When I pull a post or have objections to one, I contact the poster by PM and try and state my views in a respectful and polite manner. I do not discuss it in a public posting.

The SMC terms of service can not, nor will it ever be able, to cover every eventuality and give a clear answer on every possibility. If Keith and Jackie were to attempt that, TOS would be the size of a small dictionary and members would be required to take a six month course and pass a 100 question multiple choice test before being allowed to post. :D The key things here are to try and stay mostly on topic, respect others, avoid posting links to prohibited types of sites, and to have a useful interchange of information. We're supposed to have fun here folks.

[Steve Clardy]

Steve,

You didn't see the humor in my post?;)

Contrary to what anyone wants to believe, it's an old power tool, period.

No offense meant to Harry, and he posts some great info, it's just not a hand tool, even if you must use your hand to move the spinning blade. Heck, it's easy to use that analogy and make all power tools hand tools in that sense.

Yes, it's an old tool. It isn't a hand tool. Sorry if this fact bothers folks, but it's the cold hard truth, it has a motor that turns the blade, and that motor operates on electricity.

It's easy enough for me to ignore this thread, just that I thought this was the hand tool forum, and it seemed to me that it would be more appropriate to post in the general and power tool forum, but what do I know...:D According to the TOS, an off topic message is allowed:

----
4. Off-Topic (OT) Posts
Off-topic posts that are general in nature are allowed in the appropriate forums.
----

I can live with it, but to me it's not the appropriate forum when one does exist.

Ok. I see your point. Not a problem with me.:D

[Jerry Olexa]

[quote=harry strasil]I must apologize to Sawmill Creek and those who frequent Neanderthal Haven, I had no idea that this thread was gonna be turned into a can of worms so to speak.


Harry no apologies needed. Those were two interesting and well done posts. I saw the subtle humour and thanks for posting.

[harry strasil]

I usually keep my posts to the subject, I will not make this mistake again.

[harry strasil]

Cliff Rohrabacher mentioned a SawMill, does this qualify as a Neander SawMill?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/neandersawmill1.jpg

Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation. LOL :)

[Steve Clardy]

How about a saw-------at the mill?:rolleyes:
Yer Ok Harry:) :)