Hey Ken, you wanna have a bowl-launching competition?

[Erin Raasch]

Amazing just how easy it is! I decided over the weekend that I would try some faceplate turning. I haven't yet gotten a chuck, so on Saturday I turned a glue block and glued a nice butternut blank to it. Yesterday I mounted it on the faceplate and started turning. My plan is to make a small box, no lid, just a few coves and curves on the outside and straight sides on the inside. I got the outside all nice and purty, and started hollowing out the inside just a bit. Didn't have a bowl gouge, so I used a scraper to go about an inch deep, leaving the walls very thick to start with.

It didn't take too long to realize that I was going to need a bowl gouge, so I called it a night. I really didn't feel safe going any further. After work today, I stopped at the local Woodcraft store and picked up a 1/2" bowl gouge (I was really looking for a 3/8, but it must be a popular size because that spot on the rack was empty). After supper and a walk, I got everything set up, started the lathe spinning, just . . . barely . . . touched . . . the new gouge to the inside of the bowl . . . and it took off like an alien spacecraft.

Just about scared the you-know-what out of me . . . I turned off the lathe to assess the damage. The piece had come clean off at the glue joint; I had glued the two pieces with a piece of grocery-bag paper in between, and the paper was ripped clean apart. I retrieved the partially-turned box to see how bad I'd killed it. As it turned out, the damage wasn't too severe . . . a pretty impressive gouge on the inner wall, but since it had been left quite thick, not a problem. Small dent in the rim, probably from being flung into who-knows-what . . . all in all, I was quite relieved that it was no worse than that.

Of course, I ran an analysis of all the things I'd done wrong . . . funny how you can "know" something in theory, but still have to learn it in practice.

First lesson - practice with a new tool before putting it to a piece that I care about!

Second lesson - be mindful of the speed at which I'm turning. I'd left the speed set higher than it should have been because I'd been doing some sanding last night. Even while I was sanding, I was telling myself not to forget to turn the speed down before I shut down, but of course I forgot, and in my excitement to get going again, didn't pay attention to it.

Third lesson - if it doesn't feel right, stop and think about what's going on. Because I had the lathe turning too fast, I was getting some vibration. I had turned the headstock out 60 degrees to get at the inside of the box, and didn't know really what to expect. I went ahead and tried to work with it, which I now realize was just asking for trouble.

All's well that ends well, and I've re-glued my piece to the glue block and left it clamped up between centers while the glue dries. My biggest disappointment is that I didn't get to do any turning this evening, and won't have a chance again till Wednesday.

And yes - I am well aware of the "no pics, didn't happen" rule - so you will notice that there are no pics in this post. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, ya know. :cool:

Erin

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Thanks Erin! It's nice to know I'm not the only one experiencing this. Question?

Are you turning an endgrain box or a sidegrain box?

End grain box....when you look at the place on the blank where you would be looking into the opening of the box....are you looking at endgrain or side grain.....When mounted to the lathe....does the grain in the wood run parallel to the bed of the lathe or perpendicular?

Reason........Endgrain boxes use one technique.....Sidegrain uses another....

[Cody Colston]

Erin,

Been there, done that, still do it sometimes. ;)

I'd highly recommend Bill Grumbine's DVD "Bowl turning Made Easy." Together with the Wolverine sharpening jig, it made a step-change in my turning and eliminated about 98.7% of the frustration I was experiencing.

Sharp tools applied correctly make all the difference. I used to think I would never use the bowl gouge without trepidation but it's almost second nature now. (too bad I can't say that about the skew) You, too, will learn...in fact you are already ahead of my learning pace.

I would advise you get a face mask asap if you haven't already done so. You may not be able to dodge all of those missiles. :eek:

[Erin Raasch]

Are you turning an endgrain box or a sidegrain box?


It's sidegrain - grain runs perpendicular to the axis of the lathe.

Erin

[Erin Raasch]

I would advise you get a face mask asap if you haven't already done so. You may not be able to dodge all of those missiles. :eek:

The face shield was the other item I picked up at Woodcraft. :o

I probably will get Bill's DVD, it certainly comes highly recommended. I haven't yet because, until I get my hands on the tools and start seeing and experiencing some of these things, all the instruction in the world just doesn't seem to take. Once I've had a chance to play around a little, then it starts to make a whole lot more sense.

I've read enough on the forums to know that when turning, if you make a mistake, you can expect some pretty spectacular results - so I wasn't totally unprepared. Definitely not something I want to experience too often, though!

Erin

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Well...........good...........

Yeah.........that launching of a bowl is actually good! Gets the old pumper rate up a bit! It's amazing how each type of turning takes a little different technique and yet when I go back and do something I've done previously...I can now use a variation of a tecnique I learned from a different project.

But you gotta admit, Erin....it's sure addictive!

I'm at the point now where I'm going back to doing some spindle work. I want to get some spindle tables (similar to a Shaker spindle table) done. I'm going to make 3 of them. No two of the same spindle design. All 3 out of cherry. Then I'm going to recess for a while and concentrate money and time on finishing my new shop. I really need to get the Bomb off that 2x12 diving board and onto a real bench!

Enjoy Erin.....and remember......sharp...light.....and have fun!

[Lee DeRaud]

But how are you going to score the competition? Distance? Hang-time? Style points? Degree-of-difficulty?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Erin........Get Bill G's video! The technique he teaches works well. I suspect you'll learn faster than (if I may) some of us "guys". Not meant to be sexist.....My wife learned to down hill ski faster than I did.......reason...she applied technique while I tried to muscle it:o .....turning appears to be similar........technique not brute strength!

Bill G's video is quite impressive .........I've never seen anyone turn except on Raffan's videos and Bill G's. Bill shows a technique....I just followed it and I was amazed at how easy it was to turn the inside of the bowl..especially! I would recommend lessons first....Bill's video..2nd....It's really impractical for me to take lessons right now. So Bill's video was the lesson of choice....right choice for me!

I'm not reimbursed or connected to Bill Grumbine in any way other than being a happy customer and he's glad of it!:D

[Corey Hallagan]

Erin, it does scare the heck out of yah when it happens. I found that out this weekend! Good luck on your project!

Corey

[Ernie Nyvall]

Glad you didn't get hit Erin. I've had one launching where I stood to the side of the lathe and turned up the speed. I guess I had to get it out of my system... DUMB. I finally found one piece of it 150' from the door of the shop:eek: .

I know people have used the paper and glue block method for just about ever, but from what I saw happen in high school, I just can't bring myself to do it. I glue wood to wood or use an extra thick/long piece and screw it directly to the face plate. The one launching was enough for me.

Ernie

[Bernie Weishapl]

Erin I am also a new turner like Ken. I just started turning in December. I have made about 15 bowls now and probably 10 boxes along with a dozen pens. One thing on Bill's DVD that he teaches when using a bowl gouge is a sharp tool and the bevel must be rubbing. He also shows you how to present the tool to the wood. I watched that DVD 3 times before I went out and tried. It just worked. I don't use paper when gluing. Keep working Erin it will come.

[Andy Hoyt]

Erin - Sharp is what it's all about. And I've yet to see a new tool direct from the vendor that had an edge on it that was good to go. A dull edge will act like a bulldozer while a sharp one behaves more like an F14 Tomcat. So... be sure to get it sharp before initial use and keep it that way.


Also - You didn't say whether the bowl was green, bone dry, or somewhere in between. What I'm about to mention applies to each of these conditions but more so to green wood. The wood will move on you overnight and as a result the nature of the connection between the blank and the glue block could have changed such that the glue joint became compromised. Could it have been a cross grain glue-up? Thusly, I've always made it a practice to devote enough time to any session so that I can fully complete the work in its currently-mounted configuration.

Same notion holds true if you had been using a chuck. Always check to be sure that it's securely holding the piece. I'll even stop mid-session to check it - especially in green wood.

Hope this helps.

[Michael Stafford]

But how are you going to score the competition? Distance? Hang-time? Style points? Degree-of-difficulty?


There are many other categories to consider when scoring. One of my favorites is when the bowl or box flies out of the lathe hits the floor and spins in place for a second or two before finally catching hold and rolling off at high speed under the most inaccessible bench in the shop. Sometimes there are skid marks that we could measure.

Another favorite is the moment when it hits the concrete floor and shatters like a grenade. This can confuse the issue of distance as knowing where to measure is complicated. Do you measure to where it hit the floor or to where the various pieces bounced?

Scary moments can be entertaining. For instance, the blank rips from the chuck and proceeds to roll up your arm toward your face. How fast can you duck? This maneuver deserves added points for degree of difficulty. Unfortunately the turner involved in this event does not get to be present for the scoring and may have to retire from the competition. The last time I saw this attempted the turner decided not to turn anymore when he woke up.

But folks you haven't lived until you turn on a lathe with a nearly completed segmented hollow form urn with more than 300 pieces that you failed to secure in the chuck jaws....:o :( Just like Humpty Dumpty, you'll never put it back together again.:D

[Jim Davenport]

I'm getting good with a "bank shot". The piece bouncing off of several objects, before coming to rest under a toolbox, tool, or bench.:eek:

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Sometimes there are skid marks that we could measure.

...boy you can say that again, and ones we don't really want to be talking about................. :p

I'm in on this, my chuck is on the way, I've got two new books to read, and I've just about got that pesky bike out the door (selling the bike to buy more tools!).

I launched one today, the scraper caught, the blow launched........ in about 50 toothpick sized pieces...... LOVE that face sheild, I had a few pieces stuck in my apron and my hat :eek:

I knew that was going to happen, I could just feel it, the traction was just off a tad...... I could tell.... but before I could back it off a notch............ CATCH..............SNAPPLE........... POP!!!

Oh well, lots more wood on the pile...... :D

So, I think we should get a sliding point scale too, bigger bowls score lower, as they are easier to launch, a small bowl is harder :D

Hope to see some pics soon Erin, as that will prove it DID happen and in a good way!!

Cheers!

[John Hart]

.... I haven't yet because, until I get my hands on the tools and start seeing and experiencing some of these things, all the instruction in the world just doesn't seem to take. Once I've had a chance to play around a little, then it starts to make a whole lot more sense.....

My reasons exactly!!!!

I think you can take some comfort in knowing that this happens to everyone Erin.:) :) :)

[David Fried]

My favorite was having the piece launch, hit the ceiling, bounce off the wall behind the lathe, and land on the lathe bed, about 1" from where it's jouney had begun! It was even correctly oriented!! Picked it up and kept turning.

I have found that once I have a problem with the bowl gouge and the wood is rough it is tough to get it going nicely again. I've taken to applying a scraper to smooth things out before going back to the gouge. Seems to help me.

[John Miliunas]

LOL! Ahhh yes. Launching pieces. For a bit, while we were still living in our "big house", I had a room with about 1/2 dozen computers and no less than 3 large monitors. A few of my friends named it "Mini Nasa". Little did they know that the "real" Mini Nasa was on the other side of the wall where my lathe was located at the time!!! :eek: :D

Erin, one comment I caught in your description is that, you had the lathe speed cranked up for sanding. In reality, you should be sanding at the lowest speed you can!!! High speed sanding doesn't really accomplish any more plus, even worse, the heat created can actually cause damage to the wood fibers. Besides, that will also load up your paper a lot quicker and you'll spend more $$$ without needing to! :) :cool:

[George Conklin]

Erin - Sharp is what it's all about. And I've yet to see a new tool direct from the vendor that had an edge on it that was good to go. A dull edge will act like a bulldozer while a sharp one behaves more like an F14 Tomcat. So... be sure to get it sharp before initial use and keep it that way.

Hi Erin,

I couldn't aggree with Mr. Hoyt more. Every tool I have purchased felt perfectly sharp enough out of the bag to do the job. WRONG! I don't know if you have the Wolverine system yet, but IMHO it's a valuable asset to a turners shop.
Good luck

[Rich Stewart]

Yeah John, I was going to bring that up. A man who I assume is a fairly knowledgable turner once told me, "Turn fast, sand slow." I wanted to see what everyone would have to say about it. I always sand as slow as possible.

I've had several pieces come off and hit the floor spinning like the slicks on the back of a funny car not to mention some getting ripped out of my hand while buffing and flung against the wall.

[Steve Clardy]

Bowl launching. That sounds familiar:rolleyes: ;) :eek:

[Pete Jordan]

Erin and Ken,

I might be catching up. I roughed out 4 bowls yesterday so I thought I had this turning thing figured out. Tonight I launched the first bowl I tried to rough so I was sure I knew how to prevent it from happening again. The second bowl had a shaky tenon and it broke in half and bonked me in the head. I am a little dizzier than normal.

Pete

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Hey folks.....Erin, Pete....others......this ain't no contest! This launching stuff can get serious!........But it's sure fun turning!:D

[Erin Raasch]

I would like to thank everyone for the thoughtful, helpful, and supportive replies . . . I knew that I wasn't the first to have sent a bowl into orbit, but I had no idea that the sport enjoyed such widespread popularity!

For all those who offered advice, it is well-taken - I will try to apply it to my next attempt.

As far as sharpening, I do have the Wolverine jig. I don't have either the skew jig attachment or the vari-grind, but I've seen shop-made versions of both and I want to see if I can't make my own. Sounds like a good weekend project. :)

The blank I was using was some very well-dried butternut. I will confess that when I glued it up, I wasn't paying attention to grain orientation, since it was a wood-paper-wood sandwich rather than a wood-to-wood glue-up. I'm having mixed feelings about the wisdom of using the paper in between versus just gluing wood to wood. On the one hand, it does create a weak point, which was well illustrated by my little mishap. On the other hand, given that there was sufficient stress brought to bear on the workpiece that something had to give, I would rather it be the paper than either wood or flesh and bone. I kind of hate to think what I'd be left with if it hadn't separated where it did.

I'm not sure why I was thinking that sanding needed to be done at a high speed; most likely just a matter of trying to take in too much information in a short time.

I knew I could count on you guys to provide a little levity and at the same time, offer some good, sage advice. I hope to be back at it before the week is out, and hopefully when all is said and done, I'll have something to take a picture of!

Erin