Copper Tray

[Dan Stuewe]

My wife wants Shaker Oval Boxes and we've put it on our "someday" list to make them. Lo and behold the August issue of Popular Woodworking has a cover article on just this subject.

One of the more unusual tools needed is something to get the wood bands pliable enough for bending to shape. I've read that steaming or boiling are the best/quickest ways to go. I think boiling will be the most straight forward for me. But you need a long container to fit the bands in. And you need to be heating the water as you go. John Wilson (the author of the article and caretaker of modern shaker box making) sells a copper tray for around $100. I of course think I can do this myself, but not without your help. So here are my first couple of questions...

What gauge/weight/thickness of copper should be used? The water temp needs to stay above 180 deg.

Can this tray be assembled with basic soldering techniques?

Any other hints?

Thanks,

[Pete Lamberty]

Hi Dan, I have made some shaker boxes and I boiled the wood like you want to do. What I did was very inexpensive. I went to a home improvement store and bought a aluminum gutter and two gutter "ends". I cut it to the length I needed and put tht ends in place. I then stratigically placed some blocks of wood on the kitchen stove and put the gutter on top. This is how I boiled the water. There is a draw back to this idea. The gutter will only be wide enough for certain sizes of the wood. The gutter will not be large/wide enough to boil the size wood that you need for the larger boxes. You could also use a coleman stove to boil the water. I bought all of the wood that I needed from John Wilson. Hope this helps. Pete

[Rob Russell]

One of the more unusual tools needed is something to get the wood bands pliable enough for bending to shape. I've read that steaming or boiling are the best/quickest ways to go. I think boiling will be the most straight forward for me. But you need a long container to fit the bands in.

Go to the local borg and get a 10' section of 6" PVC pipe. Buy (2) ends for it. Connect a steam source to the middle of the pipe, with a vent hole on each end. Use an electric tea kettle or, if you need more steam, something you can put on your gas grill or a standalone propane burner.

Be sure to wear gloves and safety glasses when you pull steamed wood out of the tube.

[Todd Burch]

Hi Dan. I've made dozens of these Oval Boxes. I have two boiling trays. Both are made from home center galvanized valley flashing, cut at the corners and bent up and overlapped to form sides, then soldered. The long tray that supports up to a #5 box is kinda flimsy, but it gets the job done.

I have bought wood from John Wilson and milled my own. To plane it that thin, I made a sled for my planer. The sled does not travel with the box sides - it just raises the stock so that the planer knives aren't so close to the planer bed.

The coolest jig I made is for drilling the holes for the toothpicks. I got an old 1/4" hand held electric drill and mounted it on a board on it's side. I then made a platform so that the box can be slid into the spinning drill bit. If I recall, this is similar to John Wilson's jig.

Also, if any wood you get from John Wilson fails during the bending stage, he will replace it for free. I didn't know this when I started.

Have fun? How many are you going to make? My first run was 27.

[Dan Stuewe]

Thanks for all the help. Since I don't have the tools available to easily (in my mind) make the bands, I think I'll order those from Wilson. He seems to have pretty good prices if you make you own forms - $50 (that includes shipping) for 5 boxes (#0-#4).

[Lynn Sonier]

Can anyone direct me to this "John Wilson"????

[Martin Shupe]

Can anyone direct me to this "John Wilson"????

www.shakerovalbox.com

John Wilson is the Shaker Oval Box man. He owns the last brass tack making machine, and teaches "how to" classes all around the country. I have not taken his class yet, but I plan to.

Martin, Student of the Shaker Style

[Christopher Pine]

Hi Dan. I've made dozens of these Oval Boxes. I have two boiling trays. Both are made from home center galvanized valley flashing, cut at the corners and bent up and overlapped to form sides, then soldered. The long tray that supports up to a #5 box is kinda flimsy, but it gets the job done.


I am interested in makine my own tray for boiling as well! I was thinking of getting some ductwork metal and doing this I have never soldered in this way how does one do this? Just fill the seam or what???

Chris

[John Hart]

I found that boiling is okay on thin wood but once I got into thicker pieces, it became more difficult. I switched to steam and I won't go back. I use PVC pipe mounted to a sheet of plywood and a $40 wallpaper steamer for my steam source. I mounted the PVC to plywood because it wants to sag as it heats up. Steaming only takes about 10-15 minutes and the wood dries quickly.

All in all, I spent $50 for the steamer, the pipe and fittings. Works great and I can make dog sleds! :)

[Christopher Pine]

I found that boiling is okay on thin wood but once I got into thicker pieces, it became more difficult. I switched to steam and I won't go back. I use PVC pipe mounted to a sheet of plywood and a $40 wallpaper steamer for my steam source. I mounted the PVC to plywood because it wants to sag as it heats up. Steaming only takes about 10-15 minutes and the wood dries quickly.

All in all, I spent $50 for the steamer, the pipe and fittings. Works great and I can make dog sleds! :)

REALLY!????
Thats interesting.. I had heard that in staeming wood you had to use just air dried wood? IS this true?? Is it true in boiling too?? hmm???
I made some boxes in a clas last couple weekends and I doubt very much he used non kiln dried wood...

Makes a very interesting point however steam box could be used for many things..
So you have used your steamer to build shaker boxes??
Chris

[John Hart]

REALLY!????
Thats interesting.. I had heard that in staeming wood you had to use just air dried wood? IS this true?? Is it true in boiling too?? hmm???
I made some boxes in a clas last couple weekends and I doubt very much he used non kiln dried wood...

Makes a very interesting point however steam box could be used for many things..
So you have used your steamer to build shaker boxes??
Chris

I don't really buy in to the kiln-dried vs air-dried argument. This sounds like someone had some kind of problem and deduced that the kiln did it:)

The pics below are of a little dogsled that I did with kiln-dried oak. The pieces are a little over 1/4" thick.

I've never done a Shaker Box but I expect it would be easier since the max thickness you're dealing with is 1/16th. For the bands on the box, I would make a plywood steaming box and attach fittings for the steamer...Or do what Rob Russell said earlier about using a length of 6" PVC pipe. Either way, you'd have to accommodate the width of the bands.

Maybe boiling is easier with these thin strips...I don't know. Just offering an alternative.

[Christopher Pine]

Thanks so much for your help...
May I ask if you have a picture of yoru steam box setup?
Do you have the electric kettle that lee valley sells? Are they the place to get it! Like $35.00... I am very interested in this now as you have sparked my interest!
Thanks again!
Chris

[John Hart]

Thanks so much for your help...
May I ask if you have a picture of yoru steam box setup?
Do you have the electric kettle that lee valley sells? Are they the place to get it! Like $35.00... I am very interested in this now as you have sparked my interest!
Thanks again!
Chris

Hi Chris...I had to hunt around for some pictures...but here is what I used to steam some long parts. The steam is provided by a Wagner Model 705 Wallpaper steamer. I got it, and all the other stuff at HD. I took a length of PVC pipe and cemented the endcap on one end with a brass fitting that matches the hose fitting of the steamer. Then for the other end, I put in a valve (which was really unnecessary, but I thought it looked cool and I figured that I could control the escaping steam)

Anyway, I just fill up the steamer with water, put the wood in the chamber and put the endcap on. No need to reinforce the endcap...it's just a tight slip-fit. I put the whole contraption at an angle so that no water accumulates in the tube and let it drain into a coffee can.

I plug in the steamer and start timing once the steam starts coming out of the end valve. Anywhere from 10-20 minutes. Then pop the end cap off (with gloves) and pull the piece of wood out and bend it to my form. I'll clamp it to the form until it cools and dries.

Be sure to round off or bevel the edges of the wood prior to steaming to prevent cracking.

I guess that's it.

[Jeremy Niemann]

I originally purchased the cheaper painted steel tray from John Wilson previously and it worked just fine. However I notice now in his new 2005 catalogue that he replaced it with a new larger galvanized steel tray with lid that can go up to a #5 size band, for $30.

I myself upgraded to the 48" copper tray from John, and it's quality made. I immediately noticed the improvement from my old steel tray, as the copper conducts the heat more efficiently, and the lid traps the heat inside to make the boiling go faster. I've not used his new 2005 steel tray, but I imagine the lid makes a difference as well.

However, be cautious of using steel with cherry, as it reacts with the wood and causes a discoloration. My old painted steel tray was starting to flake over time and then rust, which was not good for cherry wood. I specifically wanted to get a copper tray instead for this reason. I've also switched the regular steel pipe anvil to a copper pipe as well. Even a regular steel tack hammer was leaving some discoloration when touching wet cherry wood, so I've switched to a hard plastic resin tack hammer (I've been unable to find one in copper in such a tiny size). I called around to various places that dealt in copper gutters to have a copper tray fabricated and they quoted me more than what John's cost. Fortunately I received one of John's copper trays as a gift, saving me the trouble of buying it myself.