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View Full Version : OT: ever moved/assembled a steel building?



Lynn Kasdorf
04-06-2006, 12:59 PM
I'll be attending an auction this weekend where there is a 40'x60' all steel building on the block. It is the type with bolt-together steel girders and purlins and corrugated steel walls and roof.

If it goes cheaply enough, I may just buy it. It is only 2 miles (crow flight) from my farm, and I could drive my backhoe over there to help with takedown.

Once I get all the pieces over here, I think the biggest hassle with this project will be the prepping of the area, and forming and pouring the slab. I suspect that the assembly would not be too bad, with a couple helpers and a backhoe and a skidsteer. I wonder what pitfalls await...

Boy, it sure would be cool to have an additional 40x60 to house my stuff!

I just wonder if any of you have experience with assembling or disassembling this type of building.

Keith Starosta
04-06-2006, 1:20 PM
Hi Lynn. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with what you are talking about. However, I do think about your farm every once in a while and wonder how you are making out. I remember when you posted about purchasing this property in the Leesburg area, and was hoping that you'd keep us up to date on how things were going.

So, how's it going? :)

Good luck with the steel building. That is a TON of space...

- Keith

Lynn Kasdorf
04-06-2006, 1:57 PM
Last year, I concentrated on replacing the posts and beams on the underside of the barn, and pouring a slab on the ground level, and creating concrete steps to enter the lower level.

This year, we have added a 16' x 45' addition on the high side of the barn, which wraps around the silo. This encloses the entrance to the lower level, provides 2 tractor parking spaces, and most importantly, keeps water away from the foundation.

The addition is nearly done, so now we are moving on to re-siding the whole barn with 1x12 white oak, board and batten. Them dang pidgeons will have to find another place to roost, and some other equipment to poop on! If I didn't have it tarped, my 8" powermatic jointer would have 4" of guano on it...

So, my upstairs shop will be about 64x32 and will house all the woodworking stuff. Downstairs is the machine shop with metal lathe, milling machines, welders, sandblasting, etc. This is where I work on my old tractors and such.

At the moment, the entire front of the barn is open- the world can see my toys in there. Gotta get it closed up soon!

With any luck, I'll start actually setting up my woodshop this fall.

Thanks for asking.

Bill Eshelman
04-06-2006, 2:12 PM
Not to nit pick, but shouldn't this have a gloat tag?

I know the type of building and they are a snap to work with. Most of them are built with self tapping "tech" screws. When you rebuild it, you may just have to make new holes rather than try to hit the old ones.
I had a recording studio built inside of one of these for 7 years. Never had a problem with water getting in, It was a great building.

Good luck with all your endeavors.

Mark Rios
04-06-2006, 2:14 PM
Lynn, I've moved a few steel buildings and erected a few more new ones.

A couple of things that have made it easier for me are:

Mark every panel and the one it joins to.

Section up the building and give each section a desigination, i.e., Section A, Section B, or even just North, South, etc. Then number the panels in each section, giving you Section 2 - Panel 1, or North -Panel 8, etc.

Take pics of each side or section after mark-up/before you take it apart.

I like to use brand new fasteners (plus 10% more because of my butter fingers).


As far as the slab, make sure the footings under the posts are appropriate for the forces that the building will experience, i.e. weather, stampeding cattle, young tractor drivers, etc.


Another important thing for me is to be very, very careful when shooting the elevations for the height of the post footings. If you don't have an instrument to do this then consider using oversize bolts and double nutting, one under each base plate and one over, on each bolt so you can raise and/or lower the height of the posts and get them all to match level. You'll still need some way to assure that all the post bases are level with each other before you start bolting on the panels to the steel though. Otherwise, you could have an awful funny looking building when you get done.

hth

Joe Chritz
04-06-2006, 2:21 PM
How big of a crow does it take to fly a whole steel building? :D

Joe

Mark Rios
04-06-2006, 2:31 PM
How big of a crow does it take to fly a whole steel building? :D

Joe

It's murder to try to get a bunch of crows to do it.:D :D :D

Lynn Kasdorf
04-06-2006, 2:34 PM
Not to nit pick, but shouldn't this have a gloat tag?


Well, if I buy the thing for $200, then it will be a gloat!

Of course, buying this thing then automatically adds another huge project to my ever-growing list. At this rate, I'll actually be making furniture in the shop around the year 2020 or so.

:rolleyes:

Barry O'Mahony
04-06-2006, 6:06 PM
Besides getting the post footings and bolt placements correct, the other tricky thing is raising the roof framing. How high is the roof, and do you need a crane to raise it?

I have a horse barn with a 60'x84' clear span area with 16' eaves, built in 1989 with wood framing. The crew raised the roof framing with hand-operated winches, but I don't think the method would work with steel.

Steve Clardy
04-06-2006, 6:37 PM
I was in on one. Helped mark everything. Tin, beams, etc, with a crayon marker.
Did not help put it back up. Two years later, the owner went to erect it. Found that the rain had washed off the marking on some of the tin and all of the beams.
So. Mark well, and cover the tin up with tarps, stack inside a building, etc.

Lynn Kasdorf
04-06-2006, 10:20 PM
The building is 60x40x14. I have a full size backhoe and some monster homemade clamp-on forks. I have bolt-on studs that poke up near the end of the forks.

I have used this to set huge oak beams and I imagine it would work with the steel variety.

I figured I'd mark with one of those huge sharpies.

I'll let y'all know if I get it.

Speaking of metal buildings, my neighbor is cleaning up some scrap iron from his farm. Today I agreed to take this huuuuge tank. This sucker is 8' diameter and 16' long. 3/8" steel. I figure I'll cut the ends off and reattach with big hinges. Then I can use it for storing stuff. Like lumber. Or firewood. I could make it into a drying kiln for lumber I cut on my sawmill.

Or more likely, it is where I'll be sleeping after my wife sees me drag this thing home...

Is this what they call "living large"?

Mark Rios
04-06-2006, 10:29 PM
Speaking of metal buildings, my neighbor is cleaning up some scrap iron from his farm. Today I agreed to take this huuuuge tank. This sucker is 8' diameter and 16' long. 3/8" steel. I figure I'll cut the ends off and reattach with big hinges. Then I can use it for storing stuff. Like lumber. Or firewood. I could make it into a drying kiln for lumber I cut on my sawmill.

Or more likely, it is where I'll be sleeping after my wife sees me drag this thing home...



You could take it to take it to Kelly Hanna'a house in Texas, cut it in half and he could use it for a BBQ.

Larry Cooke
04-06-2006, 11:01 PM
Speaking of metal buildings, my neighbor is cleaning up some scrap iron from his farm. Today I agreed to take this huuuuge tank. This sucker is 8' diameter and 16' long. 3/8" steel. I figure I'll cut the ends off and reattach with big hinges. Then I can use it for storing stuff. Like lumber. Or firewood. I could make it into a drying kiln for lumber I cut on my sawmill. Excellent idea! Got one question though...How the heck will you open that sucker? Gonna have to keep that backhoe handy to get in and out.:rolleyes:


Or more likely, it is where I'll be sleeping after my wife sees me drag this thing home... At you least you have the tools to remodel it right?:D

Larry

Bruce Wrenn
04-06-2006, 11:24 PM
Used to be in metal building business. Just like others said, MARK EVERYTHING! For new bolts, try Atlas Bolt and Screw, if they are still in business. Also there used to be a place in Colonial Heights that could make everything except heavy iron. Look at original manufacturer for info on anchor bolts, includung tie rods. Most use a #6 or larger rebar, 20' long, bent into a vee shape. It is put into concrete, with anchor bolts located with in vee. The slab ties the bottom of building together. You can either pour a monolithic slab, or footing with blocks and slab.

Lynn Kasdorf
04-07-2006, 9:21 AM
It is put into concrete, with anchor bolts located with in vee. The slab ties the bottom of building together. You can either pour a monolithic slab, or footing with blocks and slab.

I don't understand this. Are you saying that I would need to get my anchor bolts perfectly aligned at the rebar stage? This sounds really hard. I think it would be very difficult to get the anchors perfectly laid out square and to stay that way during the pour. There must be a system for doing this, though. Maybe you tie the whole rebar assembly together such that it is rigid and the anchors can be perfectly lined up.

I was thinking that I would pour a slab that is deeper around the edges. I would use a grid of rebar and fiber in the mix. Then, I would drill and place red head anchors in the green concrete. Would this not be strong enough?

Thanks for the help!

Tyler Howell
04-07-2006, 9:28 AM
[quote=Bill Eshelman]Not to nit pick, but shouldn't this have a gloat tag?


Get him Bill,
We are going to deputize you for the picture police;) .
I've been after Lynn for a while for some pic up dates:mad:.
Your playing with DSP Lynn:mad: :rolleyes: :D

Mark Rios
04-07-2006, 10:29 AM
Lynn, if you think of each of those big steel post as a lever, I'm sure you'll see that it would be easy to pop a redhead right out of the concrete, even four redheads. Generally, hold-down bolts, poured in place, are engineered for forces that are encountered in each application. There are alot more forces involved than just keeping the building from scooting side to side. You might want to rethink this a little bit.

As far as locating the bolts, Yes, layout is everything. Usually, a template is used. A piece of 3/4" or 1 1/8" is marked against the base of the post and the holes for the bolts are drilled through the plywood. Now you have a bolt template that you locate on your forms, one for each post of course. You attach the bolts to the template to place/keep the bolts (actual J-bolts or threaded rod depending on what's needed) in place both for alignment and for height. You would take all the measurements for the post placements before you start taking it apart.

One more thing, I would suggest that you specify at least grade 5 if not grade 8 bolts when you order them to bolt the post/girder/frame together. I would stay away from grade 2 bolts. Just not strong enough for the larger steel.

hth

Art Mulder
04-07-2006, 1:19 PM
Today I agreed to take this huuuuge tank. This sucker is 8' diameter and 16' long. 3/8" steel. I figure I'll cut the ends off and reattach with big hinges.

Hmm, all you need is the jets and you can make yourself a hot tub. Just cut about 6' off the end and stand it up.

Or: cut off the end. Then cut in half lengthwise, weld the two pieces together, fill with water, and you've got a 32-foot long pool for swimming laps. Cool.

Lynn Kasdorf
04-07-2006, 8:42 PM
Lynn, if you think of each of those big steel post as a lever, I'm sure you'll see that it would be easy to pop a redhead right out of the concrete, even four redheads. Generally, hold-down bolts, poured in place, are engineered for forces that are encountered in each application. There are alot more forces involved than just keeping the building from scooting side to side. You might want to rethink this a little bit.

As far as locating the bolts, Yes, layout is everything. Usually, a template is used. A piece of 3/4" or 1 1/8" is marked against the base of the post and the holes for the bolts are drilled through the plywood. Now you have a bolt template that you locate on your forms, one for each post of course. You attach the bolts to the template to place/keep the bolts (actual J-bolts or threaded rod depending on what's needed) in place both for alignment and for height. You would take all the measurements for the post placements before you start taking it apart.

One more thing, I would suggest that you specify at least grade 5 if not grade 8 bolts when you order them to bolt the post/girder/frame together. I would stay away from grade 2 bolts. Just not strong enough for the larger steel.

hth

Ok, so I guess the plan would be to make really good forms, and attach these plywood templates accurately to the forms. That sounds doable. So, I get the right size anchor bolts, and have the rebar "capture" the outer edge of the bolt pattern? Heck I could twist tie the rebar to the anchors while I'm at it.

BTW- couldn't I just re-use the bolts that hold it together? I would use new hardware for fastening the tin, but wouldn't the big bolts be ok?

I wonder how 'spensive it would be to get somebody to do this prep? Probably enough to negate any great "deal" I may get tomorrow.

Of course, if I got it for a couple hundred and could pay somebody $500 or so to prep and lay it all out and do the templates and the rebar, etc, that would be fine.

Whoa, but then there is the concrete- if I pour a slab 40x60x5", that is about 37 yards. Over $4000. Sheesh. Now, I suppose I could just pour footers and save a bunch on concrete.

I wonder what percentage of the cost of an installed building like this is materials vs labor?

Thanks for all the guidance on this, Mark.

I feel like the lazy guy fishing who hopes that he doesn't get a bite because of the hassle. I sorta halfway hope that the building goes too high and I don't get it.

Vaughn McMillan
04-07-2006, 10:00 PM
...BTW- couldn't I just re-use the bolts that hold it together? I would use new hardware for fastening the tin, but wouldn't the big bolts be ok?...

Dunno if it'd be applicable in your case, but back when I was doing structural steel inspection, it was against the rules to re-use a bolt that had been torqued. In cases where things had to be re-assembled, or bolt connections didn't get torqued to the proper specs, we'd make the contractor replace all the bolts in that particular connection. I had a project where not all the bolts in a large overhead roadway sign were properly torqued, and the contractor wasn't happy about replacing all the bolts, but he was required to. (It was over a hundred bolts at something like $8.00 each.)

Part of the reason I got out of the inspection business is that I didn't like being the guy paid to tell people what they don't want to hear. :o

- Vaughn

Robert Mickley
04-08-2006, 9:52 AM
Why go to all the hassle of pouring a whole footer? About 12 years ago we moved a 60X100 to my uncles on short notice. We poured 6 foot long 10 inch columns 4 feet in the ground for every post. Whole lot faster than digging a footer.

Bill Lewis
04-08-2006, 11:25 AM
So Lynn, Did you get it?
If you did, I'm betting you got a good price, this rain was bound to keep the attnedance low. I meat to ask earlier in the week if there was a listing somewhere for this auction, but I didn't want to be tempted to go to it. So it's up to you to report the results.

Lynn Kasdorf
04-12-2006, 12:32 PM
So Lynn, Did you get it?
If you did, I'm betting you got a good price, this rain was bound to keep the attnedance low. I meat to ask earlier in the week if there was a listing somewhere for this auction, but I didn't want to be tempted to go to it. So it's up to you to report the results.

I figured that because of the REALLY unpleasant weather- cold and wind and rain- that there would not be much action. Boy, was I wrong.

I have never seen stuff go for such high prices. Cattle equipment (feed troughs, head catches, loading ramps, hay rings, etc) went for nearly new prices. I saw an old pasture drag that is about $350 at tractor supply go for $475. Unreal.

I figured I'd go $500 on the building. It went for $6700!! I never even raised my hand.

I'm glad I didn't get it. I need to concentrate on my barn. That building would have stolen my entire summer. Actually, they only gave 30 days to remove it.

I actually did get a killer deal at the auction. I got a completely pristine 1965 Fender Champ Amp, and an equally pristine japanese "Kent" electric guitar and a 1950's Royal Quiet De Luxe typewriter- all 3 for an embarassingly low price. Guess- no, less than that. No, even less. Keep coming down. How about $5?

You hear about deals like this sometimes, but this one actually happened to me. The amp is very collectable, is in showroom condition, works great and has a killer tone, and is worth about $500. I had to wait around 5 hours until they got to it tho.

Also- I decided not to get that 8' x 16' steel drum. It was just too ugly, and we have a very pretty farm. There was no place I could hide it suitably. It is now cut up. I calculated there was around 2 tons of steel in it, by the way!

Vaughn McMillan
04-12-2006, 6:19 PM
...
I actually did get a killer deal at the auction. I got a completely pristine 1965 Fender Champ Amp, and an equally pristine japanese "Kent" electric guitar and a 1950's Royal Quiet De Luxe typewriter- all 3 for an embarassingly low price. Guess- no, less than that. No, even less. Keep coming down. How about $5?
...
That is indeed a great price on the Fender. I had a Fender Bronco from about that era that I regretfully sold cheap as high-schooler. I still have a Fender Deluxe Reverb from about the same point in time. My folks bought it used for $200 when I was in about 5th or 6th grade. Last time I saw one like mine at Guitar Center it was marked $1,200. The Kent might also be a collectable, depending on the model and condition. Chances are it can be set up to play nicely, regardless.

Pics? Got any pics? ;) There are enough guitarists here at SMC who would appreciate seeing your haul.

- Vaughn

Bill Lewis
04-13-2006, 6:37 AM
Lynn, Sounds like you got some great deals, even if it wasn't what you went there for. I don't think I've ever been to an auction where there weren't stupid bidders present. Those folks who always bid over the "new" price.
I have gotten some great deals at auctions, but it seems they're getting harder to come by in this area.