Tablesaw Advice Request: Laguna vs. Minimax vs. Hammer

[Ben Notan]

Hello Everyone, :D

I am a new member of the "creek", and I was hoping to get the advice and opinion of you experienced woodworkers/ power tool users.

I am in the process of setting up a shop, and have been researching tablesaws for a few months now. I am inclined toward the Laguna TSS, as it has a nice mix of features between an "American" style and European style saw. I especially like the dado scoring. However, I have also considered the more European style saws from Hammer (K3), and Minimax (SC3W). The lack of dado capacity on some European saws would be a deal breaker for me, though, and I am not aware of dado scoring on these (less important, but would be nice). Even considered the new European-style table saw just introduced by Grizzly (the G0460 model: http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0460).

I have been reading posts on Sawmill Creek and other forums, and have been reading the reviews, etc. The Laguna TSS has gotten some favorable (although few) reviews lately, but...........

It would appear that Laguna has had some significant problems for some customers in providing good service after the sale, which makes me uneasy (? problems with the corporate culture at the company, vs. random and sporadic problems). In addition, there has been some feedback that there can be fit and finish problems with some machines (? a result of foreign manufacturing quality control).

Anyway, would appreciate any and all constructive feedback/thoughts from members (both positive and negative), regarding your experiences with the TSS or the other listed saws, as well as your experiences with the after-sale service of Minimax vs. Hammer vs. Laguna.

Thanks in advance for your time and interest! ;)

[Jim Becker]

Welcome to the 'Creek!!

My experience with Mini Max is very, very positive. And I suggest you speak with them as in most cases you can order the machine compatible with a dado set if that is your preference. Some machines, it's available as a standard option; others require special order. Configuring the sliding saw for dado compatiblity makes a small compromise, however...the edge of a "regular" blade is not right up to the slider as it is in the traditional non-dado Euro format.

[Ben Notan]

Welcome to the 'Creek!!

My experience with Mini Max is very, very positive. And I suggest you speak with them as in most cases you can order the machine compatible with a dado set if that is your preference. Some machines, it's available as a standard option; others require special order. Configuring the sliding saw for dado compatiblity makes a small compromise, however...the edge of a "regular" blade is not right up to the slider as it is in the traditional non-dado Euro format.
Thanks for the feedback, Jim.

Anyone found a way to use dado scoring on a Minimax SC3W?

Is there any way to modify the sliding table to mount American-style, miter-slot jigs (such as a tenoning jig, etc.)?

[lou sansone]

Hi ben
welcome to the creek
if you search on the creek you will find several threads that cover all of your questions. Take your time and ask lots of questions as you are doing. visit shops and see the machines in person.

Why is the dado a "deal breaker" for you?

best wishes

lou

[Chris Barton]

Hi Ben,

I have a X31 and an LT16HD, both from Laguna and the folks there treated me well.

[tod evans]

welcome ben! another in the minimax camp here... lou offers very sound advice! what ever way you go you`re talking about a chunk of change so spend time reading and driving the machines you`re looking at before you commit......02 tod

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I started a thread a lot like yours.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33413

One bit of advice: Some folks will tell you that the stuff they bought is the best thing since sliced smoked salmon and that the other companies are making junk. Often they will convey the notion of "junk" with tone and timbre more so than saying it outright. Soooo: Consider that there is really such a thing as "buyer's loyalty." It's a mental game most of us play on ourselves that helps us feel good about our choices.

Any piece of equipment is going to have failings.
Best thing for you (I think) is to do exactly what folks here are suggesting. Go look and feel touch and run the machinery, and research.
It is your $5,000.00 that you won't have after you purchase.

Felder/ Hammer will let you come to theor shop and run the equipment. I am sure MM will also though I haven't asked as I ain't going to California any time soon.
Attend the large shows if you can - and be a pain in the butt.
Get everyone's literature and READ THE FINE PRINT.
Structure a deal by negotiating hard. Everyone likes to say that they are helpless to negotiate 'cause the aliens won't let 'em. I hate the helpless negotiator ploy. There is always something they can do: toss in shipping, give you all the accessories for free - something - there is always something.

[Charlie Plesums]

Welcome to the creek.

I have the largest MiniMax combo machine, with both dado and scoring (and absolutely love it).

The scoring is used practically daily - a great way to avoid tear out when cross-cutting plywood. The small second saw blade rotating in the opposite direction enters the bottom of the cut, just as the main blade enters the top of the cut. It is a major time saver, and is part of what allows me to make sheet-good carcases with a degree of both speed and precision that I never achieved on my table saw.

The dado capability of my machine was used once, and know that it works well. However, even the best sheet goods have a degree of warp, bow, flex, etc. that interfere with the precision of the dado, since part of the sheet may not be in contact with the table/slider. That warp prevents me from getting the same degree of precision in the dados that I have in the rest of the carcase. I find I get far greater precision from a router that follows the surface of the sheet goods. When I glue up, pushing the panel to the bottom of the dado removes the warp. I thought the dado capability would be important, but I don't use it, and don't expect to use it in the future.

I bought the combo so I could work alone - I retired early to pursue my woodworking passion professionally. I didn't expect the substantial improvement in safety, precision, and speed that I got with my MiniMax. I often laughed at woodworkers who talked in thousandths of an inch, but now that I achieve that routinely, I have never had to adjust the length of table legs, (almost) never had to pull a cabinet diagonally to get it square (the one time I remember doing it, I could just see the light at one end of a square put in the case). I learned that if you can feel the difference in height of joined wood, that difference may be as little as .001 inch. I get these results from MiniMax, and would expect the same from Felder, Knapp, Altendorf. and other high end machines. I have less confidence that you would get similar results from the cheaper Rojek, Hammer, Robland, etc., since I hear "happy" users spending far more time than I do maintaining the alignment.

Good luck in your decision.

[David Eisenhauer]

The MM guys in Austin have been very helpful for what little I've had to deal with them. I notice on the MM owners forum some of the guys talking about seminars or instructional sessions taking place periodically in Austin for the various combo machines. I also agree with earlier posters saying that it is your cash, you need to be comfortable with what you buy and the other post about "owners loyalty". I imagine all machines each have their tiny "pros and cons" identified by each of us according to personal likes/dislikes. A combo machine is abig investment, I'd sure try and "rub" one somewhere before buying. Best of luck.

[Steven Wilson]

Is there any way to modify the sliding table to mount American-style, miter-slot jigs (such as a tenoning jig, etc.)?

Take a piece of MDF. Get some extra T Nuts from MiniMax. Mount the MDF to the sliding table carrige. Take the miter slot runner off your tenoning jig and mount it to the MDF.

Or, nix the silly tenoning jig and use the shaper to make tenons.

[Dan Larson]

Hi Ben,

I have a Laguna TSS and I like it. You can read my more detailed comments in this thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=30636

If you have any questions about the TSS, I'd be happy to answer them.

Dan

[Lynn Kasdorf]

I will be setting up my old SCMI slider this spring/summer. Even though it looks like it could accommodate a dado, I plan to fashion a router table just past the end of the table. This will be more capable that a dado blade anyway. I think using the sliding table with a router would be pretty cool.

[Jim Becker]

Is there any way to modify the sliding table to mount American-style, miter-slot jigs (such as a tenoning jig, etc.)?

Most certainly possible to do things like this...just think about it a little. Something like a tenon jig, first mounted on a plywood or aluminum base could be attached in the tee-slot of the slider like you would with any other "factory" accessory. I've seen Jointek sleds mounted on sliders, too.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Some good advice here.... I will add my own based upon my own experiences and knowledge. Laguna, I will never buy from them no matter what they sell, I have dealt with them before...to slimy and I have heard of enough stories to keep me away. Hammer, I have seen, sorry to say they are not made all that well, they meet a price point and that is it and the company it comes from....well I have problems with. That leaves me with MiniMax where all my money has gone. Am I loyal? yes I am but it is for a reason....a very good one. Good luck with your search. The European sliders offer so much in safety, ease of use and accuracy that it is astonishing.

[Chris Barton]

OK, so I am posting this in defense of the Laguna folks and more specifically the Robland machines. I have heard enough of the people that say that "they have heard about poor service" from Laguna and they have "heard" about this or that. Where is the evidence? When I made the decission to buy a combo machine I posted to SMC looking for advice and I got plenty of Laguna bashing. But, I got zero evidence of anyone having firsthand experience with Laguna providing poor service or that the equipment was sub par. I am seeing more of it in this thread. So, if you have the experience to back up you claims, lay it out and I am not talking about what happened to a friend of a friend 20 years ago. I have never said a single bad word about MM so, why is it that some folks seem to think it's fair play to bash a company without firsthand knowledge of the product or the service? I have an X31 that works great and does everything I expected it to do for many thousands less than the closest competitor. My bandsaw came perfect from the vendor so, I didn't have to find out how good their service was. Let's be adults and deal with OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE and not inuendo...

[Paul B. Cresti]

Chris,
I am not about to drag everyone into my past long winded experiences with certain companies and why I feel the way I do...after all it is my opinion and you do not have to like. As far as my opinion on MM....well it is not based upon one machine or one experience. I have owned and currently own many of their machines. I have dealt with them a lot on different types of service issues as I adjusted machines, added to them or needed to change something. I rely on these machines for a portion of my income so I need them to perform and they do. That is the reason why I have many MM machines. I am happy you are happy lets all be happy together ...the flowers bloom in spring, tra la ;)

[Cecil Arnold]

Chris, I do not mean this as a bash of Laguna, however when I was considering a BS purchase I looked at both (got the videos and literature) and very nearly bought a Laguna. I did, however, visit their web site and saw a number of owners, on the company web, with some very negative things to say about CS. I made some private inquiries of Laguna owners who I could find--those who had stated problems--because it is often easier to get a candid opinion privately than publicly. While the heat of their anger had cooled somewhat, and their feeling was the machine was good, they still had a bad taste in their dealings with the company. Based on this limited research and reading, again on the Laguna web site, I chose to spend my $$ with MM, even though I had to pay sales tax (6.25%) as MM is a Texas company. My dealing with Laguna left me with the feeling that they were more attuned to sales, with a touch of high pressure, than their competitor. Since then, Laguna has started offering Baldor Motors (at the time the motors were made in Bulgaria I think) and having examined both saws at WW shows my feeling is that both machines are of good quality. My feeling is that Laguna must have gotten its act together in the intervening three years since I tried to deal with them. So, objectively, three years ago there were a number of unhappy Laguna (band saw) customers

[Chris Barton]

Chris,
I am not about to drag everyone into my past long winded experiences with certain companies and why I feel the way I do...

Why not Paul? That's what Ben is asking for. Otherwise, it's just an opinion and you know what they say about those...

[Chris Barton]

Chris, I do not mean this as a bash of Laguna, however when I was considering a BS purchase I looked at both (got the videos and literature) and very nearly bought a Laguna. I did, however, visit their web site and saw a number of owners, on the company web, with some very negative things to say about CS. I made some private inquiries of Laguna owners who I could find--those who had stated problems--because it is often easier to get a candid opinion privately than publicly. While the heat of their anger had cooled somewhat, and their feeling was the machine was good, they still had a bad taste in their dealings with the company. Based on this limited research and reading, again on the Laguna web site, I chose to spend my $$ with MM, even though I had to pay sales tax (6.25%) as MM is a Texas company. My dealing with Laguna left me with the feeling that they were more attuned to sales, with a touch of high pressure, than their competitor. Since then, Laguna has started offering Baldor Motors (at the time the motors were made in Bulgaria I think) and having examined both saws at WW shows my feeling is that both machines are of good quality. My feeling is that Laguna must have gotten its act together in the intervening three years since I tried to deal with them. So, objectively, three years ago there were a number of unhappy Laguna (band saw) customers

Fair enough! I have no issues whit your choices Cecil and I think MMs are good machines. However, there are certain vendors that just seem to be in some peoples "crosshairs" no matter what they do. Laguna seems to be one of those from what I see. I have yet to see a negative firsthand experience posted about them on SMC.

[lou sansone]

IRT Laguna saws Chris poses a fair question. I suppose someone could start a thread that was titled "bad experiences with Laguna". That would be somewhat out of character with SMC. I used to own a Laguna LT-24 band saw. It was a decent saw.


So did I have any negatives about them? There was one problem with the saw, namely a lower guide that burned up for no apparent reason. They basically refused to hear my case. I ended up having to either buy a new one that was really pretty pricey ( I could be wrong, but I seem to remember ~ 50 to 70 $). Fortunately another creeker had one because he swapped out the whole guide system for ceramic guides. I believe he gave the the lower guide to me.

Some folks just love to gripe, and I understand that. But the times I have been on the Laguna web site, there seems to have been quite a bit of dissatisfaction about something. Being an engineer who has designed and actually built ( I wear jeans and t- shirts to work ) machines for many years, my opinion on the general line of ACM/ Laguna saws is that they are decent machines. Sometimes it is a problem with the machine design, sometimes it is with the manufacturing process / QC and sometimes it is a problem with service after the sale. Each of those are real factors that need to be taken in total when looking at machines.

lou

[tod evans]

ben, i went with minimax equipment for a couple of reasons, the first being their parent company, scmi. over the years i`ve had occasion to run scmi equipment hard and it holds up year after year. second i`d also run a couple pieces of minimax equipment years back and although at the time somewhat cruder in execution than the scmi stuff still able to be thrashed in a production enviornment. today minimax has focused their marketing on the small production shop and the high end one man bands.....i think they offer by far the best bang for the buck in both of these markets and have spent my money accordingly with no regrets. once again read,talk, and most importantly drive the equipment before you buy anything! i would suggest that at this pricepoint you avoid the offerings from both taiwan and china but that`s my opinion.....02 tod

[Frank Pellow]

OK, so I am posting this in defense of the Laguna folks and more specifically the Robland machines. I have heard enough of the people that say that "they have heard about poor service" from Laguna and they have "heard" about this or that. Where is the evidence? When I made the decission to buy a combo machine I posted to SMC looking for advice and I got plenty of Laguna bashing. But, I got zero evidence of anyone having firsthand experience with Laguna providing poor service or that the equipment was sub par. I am seeing more of it in this thread. So, if you have the experience to back up you claims, lay it out and I am not talking about what happened to a friend of a friend 20 years ago. I have never said a single bad word about MM so, why is it that some folks seem to think it's fair play to bash a company without firsthand knowledge of the product or the service? I have an X31 that works great and does everything I expected it to do for many thousands less than the closest competitor. My bandsaw came perfect from the vendor so, I didn't have to find out how good their service was. Let's be adults and deal with OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE and not inuendo...
I am one oif the people who decided against Laguna partly based on the fact that I had heard about poor service and that I had heard about set-up difficulties with both the Laguna table saw and with the Robland combo machine. I heard about these mostly by reading the user comments, questions, and responses and one source of these was the Laguna web site.

So, even though I have had not direct problems with Laguna, the statement
"I have heard about poor service from Laguna" is correct, and I feal quite justified in making that statement.

[Steve Cox]

Okay, here's my experience. I own an Laguna LT16. I bought it a woodworking show. I was fairly new to woodworking, had never heard of Minimax, Agazzani or any other saw. I bought it based on reviews and opinions in the WW magazines at the time. I have since had the opportunity to use many other bandsaws both "old iron" and newer saws. After all that, the Laguna is "OK". The original guides were junk. The newer ceramic guides make it a much better saw. I was so frustrated with the old guides I was almost ready to toss the saw and then decided to take a flyer on the new ones. I never went to the company for help with this. Why? Because every time I talk with somebody from the company I feel like I've gone to a used car lot to buy a red truck and they're trying to get me to buy a white station wagon. It just feels slimy. It's high pressure and I don't like it. I'm not going to bash their equipment, it seems pretty good, not necessarily the best but also far from the worst. The WW show will be here in a couple of weeks and I am in the market for either a sliding TS or a combo. Minimax and Laguna will both be there. I'll be at the Laguna booth looking at their machine. But it is in spite of my experience with the company not because of it.

[Chris Barton]

Lou and Steve,

Your posts are great. I don't specifically have an issue with people posting negative experiences with Laguna, they can happen with any company. You posted what happened in your situations and I believe they will help others make their decissions in an informed way.

Frank,

I understand your feelings. I have to say that I delt with Frank Peel at Laguna when I bought my X31 and LT16HD. He was very cordial and didn't pressure me in any way. Did I get some kind of discount of the advertised sale price they had for the two units together? Nope, but they were generous about including some nice little extras. I had a glich with the mag starter of the X31 and they flew a technician to Nashville to fix it no charge under warranty. Aside from that, everything has been perfect. But, that may not be everybodies experience. Had I relied entirely upon what I had heard about the company on this forum I would never considered these machines. But, I found some great forums via the internet that gave me a much broader idea of the machines and the company.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Why not Paul? That's what Ben is asking for. Otherwise, it's just an opinion and you know what they say about those...

Sorry Chris, if someone wants my opinion, thats what they get. It is my opinion so agree with it or not. Everyone of us gives "our opinion" including the so called "experts" that the public seems to feel differently of. We are all "experts" in our own areas and in the end a decision needs to be made by our own choosing. To me the only one whom is a true expert is God (whatever form you decide to believe in or not). I will not go into any sort of details with my past/present experiences....I will only give my broad view. If someone wants a more detailed view PM or email me or check out my past postings. Like I said I feel the way I do about MM because I have reason to.

[Ken Styer]

I don't own their table saw but I bought a MM bandsaw 2 years ago. To this day I still receive e-mails from MM asking how everything is going. I believe the customer service from MM is excellent.

[Chris Barton]

Sorry Chris, if someone wants my opinion, thats what they get. It is my opinion so agree with it or not. Everyone of us gives "our opinion" including the so called "experts" that the public seems to feel differently of. We are all "experts" in our own areas and in the end a decision needs to be made by our own choosing. To me the only one whom is a true expert is God (whatever form you decide to believe in or not). I will not go into any sort of details with my past/present experiences....I will only give my broad view. If someone wants a more detailed view PM or email me or check out my past postings. Like I said I feel the way I do about MM because I have reason to.

No Problem Paul,

We can agree to disagree about this one...:cool:

[Thom Scott]

I went through a similar decision recently. I looked at all the options including the Grizzly and decided on a Hammer B3 with the shaper. This does have dado capability which is something I wanted badly. I had a friend that decided on the Grizzly and was very dissapointed with the quality. There was a problem with the ability to get the blade to 90 degrees. He ended up getting the same saw as me. I have a Laguna bandsaw which is ok. I have a Mini Max FS41 Elite S jointer planer which is a very nice machine. I went with the Hammer because of the shaper feature and the longer slider. I have limited space and this machine made alot of sense.I like using a slider so much I have bought a full sized Felder KF700 s professional. My saw is for sale on this forum. I have had positive support from both Hammer and Mini Max. The rearward tilting shaper on the Hammer made more sense to me than the Mini Max which tilts forward.

[Tom Cowie]

Lou and Steve,

Your posts are great. I don't specifically have an issue with people posting negative experiences with Laguna, they can happen with any company. You posted what happened in your situations and I believe they will help others make their decisions in an informed way.

Frank,

I understand your feelings. I have to say that I delt with Frank Peel at Laguna when I bought my X31 and LT16HD. He was very cordial and didn't pressure me in any way. Did I get some kind of discount of the advertised sale price they had for the two units together? Nope, but they were generous about including some nice little extras. I had a glich with the mag starter of the X31 and they flew a technician to Nashville to fix it no charge under warranty. Aside from that, everything has been perfect. But, that may not be everybodies experience. Had I relied entirely upon what I had heard about the company on this forum I would never considered these machines. But, I found some great forums via the internet that gave me a much broader idea of the machines and the company.

Hi Chris

I didn't see this thread until tonight. I am on your side of this one.

To all who own MM or others.... great machines , glad you you like them but for me I'll stay with my LT-20 Laguna and be quite satisfied.

I have dealt with several from Laguna in sales and service and have been treated quite well. so would I buy from them again? you bet I would!!

Be careful what you you take as gospel on the Laguna message board. It's a well known place to cast for TROLLS.

My advice to anyone is to try and get to a woodworking show that is displaying the machines that you are interested in . It helped me a lot .

I also bought Laguna based on three other woodworkers who let me try their machines. The TSS is one sweet machine!!:p

To each his own guy's that's what makes the world go around

Tom

[Ted Miller]

I had my first Laguna TS in '93 now I am on my second TS since '02, I wanted scoring. I purchased both saws second hand and had only a few problems with either one and Laguna treated me right. I have made inquiries to CS and they call me back that day or the next day. The day I put my second TS in my shop I had a few questions with the scoring and table alignment and I had one e-mail and two phone calls from the CS department in two days. I went to the facility for some parts since I work 5 miles away and they were all great to me. Rick took me back to show me where all the machines and parts are located and never tried to sell me a thing and even gave me deals on what I purchased. I have never had a single negative experience with anyone at Laguna. I am good freinds with a cabinet shop owner in Stanton and he only uses Laguna products due to one thing, customer support. He just purchased the Z3200 and its awesome. He also has a LT18 that he may sell to me since he is moving up to the LT28.

I bought a 12" jointer pkg from Wilke and did not get a response after a few e-mails to the sales rep after I had a small problem with an accessory. But things happen and since I have only delt with Wilke once I can say there CS is not good.

You will find god and bad experiences with any vendor.I here bad things about Grizzly all the time and their CS but I own one of their tools with zero problems. Since I have had no dealings with their CS I can say the company is great...

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I was looking for a TS and found Laguna TSS after PM and Delta, I got turned off to Laguna because they had sales people who were entirely ignorant about the equipment as to anything not found in the marketing blurbs. The saw is made in a Chech country and there is no tech service in the USA. So you are SOL if you need anything.

Then there was the pathetic laguna table size. What's the point of a slider if it's only going to be too short?

The MM is a fine machine but they need a Phase converter and are very expensive. They do not offer a Dado arbor option. I think they still have to use Concrete to dampen vibration (I could be mistaken).

The Hammer is a single phase machine with a beast of a strong running 4 HP motor and it's got electronic braking. Talk about balanced I can turn mine on and off with pennies balanced on edge !!
They can be ordered with Dado option and you can get a sweetheart of a dado cutter with carbide inserts from Hammer. The sliding tables sizes are plentiful and you can rip an 8' sheet of ply.

I'd compare the Hammer line to MM favorably.

The Felders are industrial strength and you pay for it.

If you want the best of the best get a $50,000.00 Martin.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Is there any way to modify the sliding table to mount American-style, miter-slot jigs (such as a tenoning jig, etc.)?


Yes. Clamp it to the T slot in the sliding table with the Fence setting your angle and acting as the back stop

[Paul Canaris]

In general, the good experiences with Laguna have outweighed the negatives.

Keep in mind that Laguna is not a manufacturer. They market Robland, Knapp and Griggio among others... some under the manufacturers name and some under the Laguna brand name. So what you are getting is more variety and price points, but likely less awareness of all the technical issues associated with all of their line. MM, Felder and other manufacturers that direct market are in a do-or-die position and hence are very motivated as a result, but this does not necessarily mean they make the best equipment in all cases. IMHO.

[Rick Lizek]

http://www.atlanticmach.com/saws/table-saws.html I recommend you look at the Paolini line as well. Well made basic saws and I do know the smaller ones take a dado. I set one up for a shop over 12 years ago and he hasn't had a bit of trouble. I set one up for a school about two years ago and nothing major. No affiliation with Paolini. I just work on a lot of machines. MM and many others are fine machines as well. You might also look at Rojek and www.kufogroup.com (http://www.kufogroup.com) as well. Kufo's been in the states for over 20 years and is really advancing quickly.

[Ed Kowaski]

The MM is a fine machine but they need a Phase converter and are very expensive. They do not offer a Dado arbor option. I think they still have to use Concrete to dampen vibration (I could be mistaken).


MM is available in single phase.
They do offer a dado spindle now and I believe it's standard from mm-usa. (Personally I could care less about that.)
Several sliders including the legendary Altendorf F-45 use concrete low in the base. It's not for vibration damping but rather counter weight for the slider when cutting large heavy panels.

Cheers.

[Charlie Plesums]

...

The MM is a fine machine but they need a Phase converter and are very expensive. They do not offer a Dado arbor option. I think they still have to use Concrete to dampen vibration (I could be mistaken).

...



My single phase MiniMax has 4.8 hp motors, comes with a dado arbor, and no concrete to dampen the vibration. After considering features, functions, and the alternatives, I did not consider it expensive.



...
MM, Felder and other manufacturers that direct market are in a do-or-die position and hence are very motivated as a result, but this does not necessarily mean they make the best equipment in all cases. IMHO.

My MiniMax bandsaw is made by Centauro


At the risk of starting a war, let me share this true story. I had a local Robland owner visit my shop. He was horrified that I was leaning against my MiniMax slider as we talked, since he told me that would have knocked his out of alignment. After examining my MiniMax for a couple hours, he decided to sell his Robland and bought a machine like mine.

[Steven Evans]

I am in the MM camp myself. I have met folks at different camps at the AWFS show. My experience has been great CS service at MM and a great machine. The Felder is a real nice machine also. I can't say much about Laguna, I dealt with them a little and been through three salesmen, that just hit me wrong to have such a turn over. Maybe it was my dumb luck? If you go with a Felder make sure to get a full option list and research there units/options. They are very customizable. MM's come pretty well loaded with all the options. Most important are your needs and getting a unit to fit them. This unit will likely be with you for a lifetime, so get it right the first time.

[Jim Becker]

The MM is a fine machine but they need a Phase converter and are very expensive. They do not offer a Dado arbor option. I think they still have to use Concrete to dampen vibration (I could be mistaken)..

Most of them are available in single phase. My new MM S315WS is single phase. Only the very high end models are strictly 3-phase.

Most of them have a 5/8" arbor and will accommodate a stacked dado set to 3/4". My new MM S315WS is equipped that way. And since it's a standard arbor, it doesn't require any special boring to work with the dado set or existing 10" blades from a cabinet saw or contractors' style saw it may replace.

The S315WS does have some concrete in the bottom of the base to provide balancing weight down low...but not nearly as much concrete as a Martin... ;)...by a long shot!

[Greg Mann]

No one should feel concrete is a bad thing. It is used in various iterations in many metalworking machines costing in 6 and 7 figures. There are various trade names for what is essentially a vibration dampening material. It works and keeps cost down without any detrimental impact.

[darrell huntsman]

This was an old thread, but I was doing some research on another topic, and I saw some of the negative comments on Laguna service. They may have had poor service several years ago, but I can't say enough good about them. I bought a jointer, and could get it operating the way I wanted it to. They sent me an upgrade that arrived on more door step in 3 days. On top of that, they worked with me to get the initial jointer to do its thing. I now have a their Italian 18 band saw; what a tool! I can sense a change at Laguna.

[Mike Heidrick]

Yes but you still went through all that here in 2011. I had a similar experience with a T1002S shaper. They throw parts at their lack of knowledge. Say what you want about change but to me it is the same old song. They are a company fueled with high pressure salesman and backed by mediocore service and equipment team. Their salesmen do not know the parts they are selling. You might be fine with bandsaw blades and fences but be careful with big purchases. I dont need nice guys working with me, I need competent guys. To me good service happens before delivery and you just confirmed what many of us know. Hope you got a deal.

[Matt Mackinnon]

I can't say anything about their tools, but I can say about the customer service. I purchased a set of Resaw King blades for my 17" bandsaw. I paid and for the product, and was told it had shipped. I was charged $25 to get a 2 blades from the USA to Canada. After 3 weeks of waiting, I called them up to find out what was going on. I was told that they shipped out 2 weeks late, and to wait another 2 more weeks and I should get them. The two weeks went buy and the blades still did not show up. I called back to be told by their customer service department that it was "not their problem if it got lost" and "I should complain to the post office".

For the next week, I called daily until finally someone let me talk to management. They agree'd to look into it. A week later, the package did show up via the mail. On the package, they originally put on $4 worth of stamps, but it got sent back to them with insufficient postage. They then added an additional $7.30 and sent it back out. I was charged $25 to get it sent, so its not that the shipping department didn't have enough money to put on the correct amount the first time. And the real kicker to it was they cut the blades to the wrong length so what I got wasn't usable at the end of if. They did ship out a set of properly machined blades to replace the ones that were made wrong.

In my books, a great company is one that doesn't have any issues to begin with. You are correct, when you say its good to have a company that will stand behind the product when things go wrong. I take issue with how they handle the parts between having something go wrong and getting it solved.

[Aleks Hunter]

I don't think it is necessarily bashing to point out barriers to purchase. In fact it is really a service to let a manufacturer know why you do not buy from them. If a company has a bad reputation for any reason, it helps them to know about it so they can address it. Grizzly has done a wonderful job. I feel that I got burned by them once upon a time (that grizzly 18" bandsaw G1012 in the barn would make a heck of a bandsaw shaped boat anchor, not a bash, ask anyone who ever bought one, Even their own chairman has 'fessed up that that particular tool was not their crown jewel) but on the bright side the replacement parts do seem to be of much higher quality than the originals, and the support people have been great on the phone, and as a result I have bought a large planer and a table saw and a lot of smaller things. One thing that keeps me away from Laguna is they are a little less than forthcoming about where their tools come from. They seem to look aned work well, I have used older Italian Laguna 20 and 24 inch saws and they never failed to impress, back then sticker shock was a huge issue for me. OK it still is, the school of experience has taught me how expensive cheap tools are . But Laguna has built a reputation for quality based on their machines being made in Italy. But there is nothing on the Laguna site to indicate that the LT18-3000 bandsaw, as an example, is made in China. If made in China is not an issue, why not be up front about it?

I am in the market for a good quality bandsaw and narrowed my list to Tannewitz, Grizzly, MM, or if I can find one in good shape, a big old American in the 32-36" range. Which ever way it's going to be $3500 - $4500 altogether, but it will be my last bandsaw. I have a friend with a 1920's 36" that has been retrofitted with modern bearings, rewound motor in the original housing and custom machined guides which mimic the originals. It is a thing of beauty that with good blades cuts as well as anything made today. I love the five points of contact on the guides something touted as a new invention by...

[raymond Abel]

allo all
I do not have a Laguna TS (I have a industriel SawStop)
BUT I have a Laguna 20" cutterhead planer, a Laguna 8" cutter head jointer,, a Laguna 3hp cyclone & a Laguna 16" bandsaw & I can tell you that I did not have ANY problem with customer services.

My 2 cents

[Matt Mackinnon]

As Ray has shown.. just because some of us have had less than stellar service with Laguna, doesn't mean that it's like that for everyone. the down side to forums like this is that it gives anyone a place to vent. How many times have you posted a thread saying how your machine is working fine and don't have any issues? I do think like Aleks that if Laguna did read these forums, it gives them an idea as to where they can do better.