Spalted maple

[Rick Peek]

O/k,so I happened to land about 60 b/f of 5/4 rough cut
spalted maple. When I saw it,I thought it would be perfect
for a bar top I'm building for my (very dry) walk out basment.
Having never worked with it before,I started to search SMC
for finishing ideas. This is when I found out the spores can be
dangerous when cutting & planeing.
Well, I got ready to plane & joint some. I told my son to go in
the house ( my garage is my shop),put on my resperator,hooked
up my H/F dust collector & cut some raised panels for a vanity
I'm building. My son tells my wife and she flipped out!
My question are, how dangerous is this wood to work with?
Would it be safe for a bar top? I really want to use it,its beautiful.
I only paid $125 for the lot of it!

[Mike Parzych]

Sheesh....not that dangerous. I daresay you're exposed to more dangerous microbes by touching the faucet handle in a public restroom....seriously.

Different people have different sensetivities to foreign materials. I for one have never had any sort of reaction working with any species of wood, although I know there are many people that do react allergically. I wouldn't let that possibility deter me in this case.

Seems to me that in my lifetime the world has gotten hyper-vigilant about many things. As a kid I recall playing with loose mercury, melting/molding lead I'd found to make fishing sinkers, and the attic was filled with vermiculite.

[Dick Strauss]

Rick,
It sounds like you are taking the right precautions. I turn it/sand it regularly with little protection and haven't had any problems. I don't think it is much more dangerous than normal sawdust. I would think that sanding the wood might be slightly worse than digging in the garden and inhaling some dust given the spalting color comes from fungus/bacteria usually found in the dirt.

[Ted Jay]

O/k,so I happened to land about 60 b/f of 5/4 rough cut
spalted maple. When I saw it,I thought it would be perfect
for a bar top I'm building for my (very dry) walk out basment.
Having never worked with it before,I started to search SMC
for finishing ideas. This is when I found out the spores can be
dangerous when cutting & planeing.
Well, I got ready to plane & joint some. I told my son to go in
the house ( my garage is my shop),put on my resperator,hooked
up my H/F dust collector & cut some raised panels for a vanity
I'm building. My son tells my wife and she flipped out!
My question are, how dangerous is this wood to work with?
Would it be safe for a bar top? I really want to use it,its beautiful.
I only paid $125 for the lot of it!

WAIT.... DON'T BELIEVE ANY OF THESE GENTLEMEN. What you are doing is very dangerous. I am a Certified Wood Disposal Specialist. I recommend that you ship the aforementioned Contaminated Wood to me, so I can dispose of it properly... for health reasons of course....:D


So.... where did ya happen to "aquire" this, ahem, "contaminated wood"?:rolleyes:

[Jim Becker]

Care should be taken when working with any wood relative to dust and that is what your son and spouse should understand. With spalted material, one must take consistent care as the dormant fungus/spoors could reactivate in the nice, warm, moist environment called your lungs. Seriously.

[Dan Forman]

The wood itself is not considered a health risk, it's the fungal spores released with the dust when it is being worked that you have to be careful with.

Dan

[Mike Parzych]

Rick -

In all fairness, I must clear something up regarding this statement I made yesterday:


As a kid I recall playing with loose mercury, melting/molding lead I'd found to make fishing sinkers, and the attic was filled with vermiculite.

I don't know if my childhood exposures have anything to do with the extra arm I have growing out of my forehead, but it's so handy I don't complain much about it.

But the other people are correct concerning the dust. Once it's sealed with whatever finish it's harmless.

[Chris Barton]

Sadly, the risk of fungal spore exposure has been greatly over-hyped for the past few years. In fact, most of us are completely insensitive to the spores (unless you have some rare autoimmune disease). We are all exposed to huge amounts of fungal spores on a daily basis and don't even know it. Spalted wood represents virtually no risk to the average woodworker.

[Mark Pruitt]

Last year I went through a thoracotomy/decortication of my right lung due to a pleural effusion caused by God-knows-what. (We never did figure out the cause.) It taught me something about how valuable my lungs are and made me acutely aware of how I had taken them for granted. Anytime any of you guys get to talking about respiratory protection you get my attention in a big way.

I haven't worked with spalted maple but the one observation I do recall is from seeing Richard Raffan turn a spatula from spalted maple in one of his videos. The thing literally flys apart while spinning on the lathe. Makes you think.

Mark

[Dan Racette]

I think it is great that you are using a respirator. spores or no spores one of the top 100 cancer causing agents as reported by our gov't is wood dust. The spores just add a wrinkle. In my case, I am highly allergic. The punky wood is what gets me, and you can get the tiniest of streaks every once in a while and my eyes puff up, throat itches, start sneezing and creating lovely fluids from my eyes nose and mouth! I look like some neaderthal (the ones in the museums not the ones with handplanes.).

I'd say your slight overprotection can't hurt.

I have to move to a full face, because it actually enters through my eyes and my "hi dust goggles" aren't cutting it. There goes another $250!

d

[Frank Fusco]

A good mask should be fine, I use a Dust Bee Gone. But, for use, you will need to seal that wood with something like Min Wax wood hardener. It should be beautiful when done.

[Rick Peek]

Thanks for all the replies. I figured that the exposure danger
was slightly over blown. That said I will take every precautiom
when working with it.
The raised panels in the picture is finsihed with tongue oil.
Does it need to be sealed with shellac or poly? Also on the bar
top, I will be attaching it to a 3/4 ply base. What should I seal the
bottom side with?

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

All Fungi that grow on wood are edible.
That said you wouldn't want to eat most of them as they are mostly woody tough and don't taste good.
There are some antler and fern fungi that grow on wood that are delicious.

ERGO: I'd not worry about the dust from spalted wood.
What you might want to consider is the continuation of growth in unkilned lumber. No amount of drying will kill the spores. They can survive 20 years. Many fungi can continue to thrive in very arid conditions.

[Ted Jay]

All Fungi that grow on wood are edible.
That said you wouldn't want to eat most of them as they are mostly woody tough and don't taste good.
There are some antler and fern fungi that grow on wood that are delicious.

ERGO: I'd not worry about the dust from spalted wood.
What you might want to consider is the continuation of growth in unkilned lumber. No amount of drying will kill the spores. They can survive 20 years. Many fungi can continue to thrive in very arid conditions.

Wouldn't kiln drying kill all the spores in the wood?

[Dan Forman]

Sadly, the risk of fungal spore exposure has been greatly over-hyped for the past few years. In fact, most of us are completely insensitive to the spores (unless you have some rare autoimmune disease). We are all exposed to huge amounts of fungal spores on a daily basis and don't even know it. Spalted wood represents virtually no risk to the average woodworker.

Chris---I've always wondered about this myself, since wood and lung tissue are quite different mediums for growth. I have read in at least one woodworking book that the spores present in spalted wood are carcinogenic. If true, that would be a different sort of reaction than that of an allergen. Can you document the claim that spalted wood dust is no more harmful than normal wood dust with any biological data? Not trying to be confrontive, just curious, because I am a great fan of spalted wood and it would ease my mind some if I knew this to be true.

Can anyone else present any documented science on this question, one way or the other? Inquiring minds want to know!

Dan

[Alan DuBoff]

Dan and Chris,

I've found this thread interesting as I've just acquired a decent QTY of maple, and it does have some pieces mixed in the wood of ambrosia, spalted, wormy, and other figure (tad of birdseye, some very fine curl). Some is very nice, some isn't, but it seems like nice wood.

What I found interesting is that the person posting about the wood on this forum originally mentioned suspecting being allergic to some of the same maple.

I've not heard of folks being allergic to maple, and hope I'm not since I have a bunch to work with. That would rot (no pun intended) to have a pile of wood that you're allregic to.:eek:

I have heard of a lot of folks being allergic to various rosewood species (which is a massive amount of woods) such as cocobolo. I'm sure there are people that are allergic to any species of woods. I'm not sure exactly what type of maple I have, it's from Canada is all I really know. Mine has been kiln dried I've been told.

[Chris Barton]

Dan and Chris,

I've found this thread interesting as I've just acquired a decent QTY of maple, and it does have some pieces mixed in the wood of ambrosia, spalted, wormy, and other figure (tad of birdseye, some very fine curl). Some is very nice, some isn't, but it seems like nice wood.

What I found interesting is that the person posting about the wood on this forum originally mentioned suspecting being allergic to some of the same maple.

I've not heard of folks being allergic to maple, and hope I'm not since I have a bunch to work with. That would rot (no pun intended) to have a pile of wood that you're allregic to.:eek:

I have heard of a lot of folks being allergic to various rosewood species (which is a massive amount of woods) such as cocobolo. I'm sure there are people that are allergic to any species of woods. I'm not sure exactly what type of maple I have, it's from Canada is all I really know. Mine has been kiln dried I've been told.

Hi Alan,

I have not heard of anyone being allergic to maple either but, I am allergic to wenge which is a "fumerate" and loosely falls into class we sometimes group as rosewoods. I bought some wenge to turn bowls with and ended up having to give it all away because it produced a classical allergic reaction in me and I had a skin rash, much like what some folks get from poison ivy, for weeks. I think the bigger issue is that "warnings" have been used on some of the woodwworking shows about using spalted wood because it is known to contain a fungus. It's kind of like the "food-safe" finishes topic. That information has been so over communicated that it has become a urban legend even though all standard finishes are food safe once dry.

Enjoy you haul of maple! It may be my favorite wood.

[Alan DuBoff]

I have not heard of anyone being allergic to maple either but, I am allergic to wenge which is a "fumerate" and loosely falls into class we sometimes group as rosewoods. It is amazing how many woods are a part of the rosewood family, there are a LOT! I have heard of folks being allergic to all types of rosewoods.

Not long ago, I got together with some friends, to turn a pen. I have done some lathe work when I was younger, but haven't done so for years. I picked a piece of amboyna burl I had, and it was lovely to work with (smells wonderful). Another person had a piece of rosewood, but the friend that was helping us didn't know exactly what type of rosewood it was, so he wouldn't advocate the guy using it. I thought an un-needed precaution, but he pointed out that he knew someone that had got a serious rash from turning some rosewood that they didn't know what it was (I still think coincidence).

I think the bigger issue is that "warnings" have been used on some of the woodwworking shows about using spalted wood because it is known to contain a fungus. It's kind of like the "food-safe" finishes topic. That information has been so over communicated that it has become a urban legend even though all standard finishes are food safe once dry.Yeah, that seems to be the case all too often in our modern world. For years and years we had asbestos brakes on our cars, and folks would be sitting in stop-n-go traffic, grinding the asbestos in the air. Now that asbestos is known to be unhealthy, we have to pay enormous amounts of $$$s to get it removed by guys in white suites who look like they work in a clean room. I'm not saying asbestos shouldn't have precautions taken for it, just that this seems like the same over-reaction to the danger than really exists, and certainly what most folks were exposed to in the past (brake pads as an example).

Enjoy you haul of maple! It may be my favorite wood.I also like maple quite a bit, and haven't had a chance to work with any in a while. Most of it I have used is clear for the most part, with some small knots. This stuff is all wood that couldn't be used for a contract the shop had, which stipulated they would only deliver clear wood. This unusable wood is actually quite desirable for building furniture. The guy mills up rubber stamp handles out of clear maple, and he buys it by the train car load from Canada. Anything with figure, grain, spalting, ambrosia, or otherwise non-clear wood is pulled out and this is the wood. I took a pic last night of a finished 4" wide, by 4' wide piece of maple that couldn't be used, because it's birdseye (one of the few birdseye boards in the bunch). Finger grooves are milled on both sides, to hold the stamp, and the rubber is glued to the flat surface of the wood. I'm attaching a couple pics I took last night to show that, and you can see some slight wormy maple on one of the boards laying on top.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Wouldn't kiln drying kill all the spores in the wood?

Yes Yes OH YES.
Most kilns have a period of 300 Deg F or more.
Even 250 Def F would likely kill most all spores and fungi.

There are a few yeasts and fungi that can survive two autoclave cycles which is about 250Deg F. I doubt however, that those few hardy little suckers are the ones that eat wood.

[Alan DuBoff]

Cliff,

Would the kiln also kill most borers as well? If so, can the eggs survive?

I took some pics of some of the interesting pieces that were in my stack of maple:

http://www.SoftOrchestra.com/woodworking/wood/interesting/index.html

A couple questions I have.

Pic 2 and 3 looks like spalted to me, which seems pretty clear. Is this sap and heart wood where that happens?

Pic 5 has black lines outlining the spalted area, which I've seen before. Anyone know what causes that?

Pic 6 is the spalted area just the light yellow colored area, and the rest is sap or heart wood?

Pic 7 and 8 there is light birdseye, and the darker areas appear as some wood I've seen labeled wormy, but I have better example, this was only at the top of the stack. Is this wormy?

Pic 10, 11, and 12 is this just sap and heart wood? It looks nice to me, but I know that most maple is all clear with little darkness, while other has this. I'm trying to figure out what the dark area is. It would appear to be heart wood, but isn't maple clear in it's heart wood?

Anyone who can shed light on this, I would appreciated.

I was searching online and it seems that one site I was looking at classified all maple with dark areas as either ambrosia or figured, but I wasn't clear on what portion of the tree it resembles and/or if something causes that.