Why no roughing gouge on bowls??

[Pat Salter]

I was reading Robert Rosand's article on roughing gouges in the latest American Woodturner and once again heard that you shouldn't use a roughing gouge when turning a bowl. And once again, I couldn't find a "reason" why not in the article. I have read in several places that you shouldn't do this and the only reason usually given is, "it's not made for use in making bowls". That's like saying, "Because I said so".

Does anyone know why you shouldn't do this? I've had a couple of people ask me this question and I don't have a good answer.

I'm not saying I use one for bowls, because I don't, I just would like a good answer.

Mr. Rosand says in his article that he and others advocate the term, "Spindle" roughing gouge. Sounds good to me. Just give me a good reason.

[Lee DeRaud]

Why sell one tool when you can sell two?

Oh crap, did I say that out loud?!?

[Paul Downes]

What the heck is a 'roughing gouge'? Just bigger? or perhaps dull:D

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The word I got is that the tang is too small and could snap.........?

[John Hart]

I think the tang could snap if your toolrest was too far away from the work...which is a no-no anyway. If your toolrest is up next to the work, there isn't enough leverage to provide the power to snap at the handle. I'm with you Pat...I've searched and searched and I can find plenty of people who say "don't" and can't find a legit reason "why". Lee is probably right...It probably has more to do with marketing.

[David Fried]

Well, on the inside of a bowl I can see it being problematic. Hard to image getting it in contact with the side and not getting one of the wings to catch!

I wonder if the angle of the bevel isn't an issue too? Again, at least on the inside, it's hard for me to image having enough room to position the tool such that you could ride the bevel.

[John Hart]

Well, on the inside of a bowl I can see it being problematic. Hard to image getting it in contact with the side and not getting one of the wings to catch!

I wonder if the angle of the bevel isn't an issue too? Again, at least on the inside, it's hard for me to image having enough room to position the tool such that you could ride the bevel.

This is probably why someone developed the grinds that are more conducive to bowls. That roughing gouge is just too difficult to get at the proper angle to create the right address to the wood. Personally, I don't use any gouge on the inside of anything...but that's my lack of experience thus far.

[Chris Barton]

Hi Pat,

I use a roughing gouge occasionally on the exterior of bowls to get the blank round. I have a roughing gouge that is plenty strong and probably never snap. But, I have also seen at least one post on SMC where someone snapped a RG trying to do just thay. Also, as John pointed out, if the tool rest is close to the piece, say 1/4" or so, then it is very unlikely that the tool could be broken at the tang since it would require so much force. I would never try to use one on the inside of a bowl simply because the grind of a roughing gouge is not intended for such and the edges of the bevel would likely catch.

[Bill Grumbine]

There are a couple of reasons why not to use a roughing gouge on a bowl. They are designed for spindle work, meaning that the tang of the tool is not really designed for the forces applied in bowl work. Lots and lots of people have snapped them off over the years, along with tool rests, and sometimes body parts. Second, those big pointy ears are a danger for catches. Ever get smacked in the chops by a handle coming around to meet you? You can grind them back, but then you lose a lot of the utility of the gouge for spindle work, and you still have that spindly tang to deal with. Not only does the typical bowl have a lot more force out at the edge, the grain is going in different directions than a spindle.

Bowl gouges are made of sterner stuff. The steel is a round blank, and the edge that contacts the wood is smaller, so that you take a smaller bite. That is not to say that you cannot remove wood quickly, because you can. Longer swept back grinds serve the double purpose of removing those pointy corners and allowing a larger shaving to be removed.

As far as keeping the tool rest close, that is always a good idea, but there are a lot of times where you are going to have to hang it out over the end. On the outside of bowls, keeping a smooth curve along the wood means hanging it out sometimes. Deep bowls that are narrow at the top are going to require hanging out over the tool rest on the inside, which is a place a roughing gouge should never go.

People who know what they are doing and how to handle the tools can usually get away with using a roughing gouge on a bowl. But, the big problem is people who are just starting out and who have not yet learned how to handle the tools. Often these are the folks calling the tool supplier with their two piece gouge to complain of inferior steel in the tool when in fact the problem is the loose nut on the handle. How do I know? I started at the beginning too. I never broke a roughing gouge, but I broke two tool rests and bent several tools in the learning process. By the time a person gains experience, they have usually been introduced to the bowl gouge and its incredible versatility for all kinds of work. So even though I could use a roughing gouge to turn the outside of a bowl, I would not, because it is not a good example. And why would I want to when I am going to get much better results with a bowl gouge?

I hope this helps clear things up a bit.

Bill

[Pat Salter]

I knew if I waited Mr. Bill would step in and help me out :D

That's the best answer I've heard so far. I kinda figured out the pointy parts would have to be watched if someone were to try it but I didn't know about the tangy part. :eek: hmmmm, excuse me while I go out to the shop and check out my gouges :rolleyes:

I may have to print that up so I can remember that though, I have a pretty bad case of CRS.:confused:

[David Fried]

Pat,

There are a couple of similar threads on the AAW website which Mr. Bill also contributed to. In addition to containing all the above information, one person relates that it is easy to get a catch that will rip lose a 3" piece of wood that will shoot up the flute and impale your hand. He asks that we don't ask how he knows this! Ouch!!

Dave Fried

[wyman autry]

i also pondered that question, then,i stuck one inside a bowl i was trying to make, after a near heart attack and one pair of underwear soiled beyond belief. i understood perfectly what someone was trying to tell me.:eek:

[Pat Salter]

OK, I checked my gouges earlier according to Mr. Bill and here's what I found. My 1/2" bowl gouge and my 3/8th" spinle gouge were both made from 1/2" round stock that stayed 1/2" all the way into the handles. My roughing gouge, on the other hand, is 3/16" plate stamped into a "U" shape and then has been ground to a tang to fit into the handle. Yeah, I'm starting to see the picture, the light is getting brighter, I almost understand it, Actually, I'm starting to be afraid of it:rolleyes:

They say that knowledge can be a dangerous thing. It can also be a safe thing. Thanks everyone.

[Anthony Yakonick]

One other thing, there is a possibility of a large splinter breaking off, shooting down the flute and sticking in you hand!!:eek: :(

[Jim Dunn]

Thanks for all the explinations. Very helpful!