What causes the Red in Box Elder?

[Frank Stevens]

Ok, That's my question. Does anyone know for sure?
Is it the bugs? Is it stress?

I'll accept theories too! :rolleyes:

I had one large trunk of a three trunk BE break away from the rest right at the ground. I thought there might still be roots, say maybe a third still feeding this 18" trunk. It's been down 9 months or so and the branches are getting green and showing new bud growth.

My hope was that the red was a reaction/defence to stress and that possibly by leaving it the tree might be pumping the red stuff to the fallen branch and maybe the rest of the tree.

This tree and another in the yard are scheduled by my other half for removal from the yard..
If I could cause the red to happen by driving a few railroad spikes into the base of the tree or somthing like that I would. :eek:
Then cut them down later and enjoy! :D

What cha all think?

Frank

[Dave Mcintire]

I believe the red is caused by the Ambrosia beetle, which is the same bug that causes the brown stain in maple. If you look closely you will likely find beetle holes in the vicinity of the red stain. This makes really cool turnings.
Dave

[John Shuk]

I'ver read that is a secretion in the tree caused by stress of one form or another.

[Mark Cothren]

I also thought it was bugs...

[Reed Gray]

I had heard that the red was caused by a bacteria, or fungus of some sort that is particular to the box elder tree. I know the bow elder beetle is on that tree a lot, but it also is on other trees, and they don't have the red in them. Unfortunatly the red fades to brown as it ages.
robo hippy

[John Hart]

Yup...It's a fungus that forms when the tree gets damaged in some way. The ambrosia beetle will bore in and cause the green streaks...and then the fungus will occur, giving you the red. Pretty spectacular. If someone runs into the tree with a tractor, that'll cause the fungus to form as well...along with wind damage or anything else along those lines.

[Cody Colston]

A Google search I did using "Red Box Elder stain" led to a couple of horticulture-type sites that were investigating the cause of the coloring.

The short answer is "they aren't really sure", but feel it is caused by stress, injury and even a fungus. Probably all three.

[John Hart]

Here's an example of the red and green caused by the beetle guy

[Anthony Yakonick]

It is caused by damage or stress.One being a type of ambosia beetle called the columbian timber beetle (do a search, you"ll be amazed) In non beetle areas it seems that wind shake and other damage causes it. The beetle also causes the damage in silver and red maple. invasive.org is a good place to search.

Here's a good article
http://www.plpa.agri.umn.edu/~robertb/pdfreprints/redstain.pdf

[Paul Downes]

I've often wondered the same thing. I did notice that boxelder bugs are colored with the same shade of red.??? Maybe they are the carriers of the fungus? There is a lot of symbiotic relationships in the big outdoors. I know that when scientists tried to raise poison arrow frogs in captivity, well, they weren't poisonous anymore. I really don't believe in evolutionary theory because there are a lot of very complicated interactions between all kinds of bugs/plants/soils/environments. I think myself that someone did some careful planning. I'm not trying to start an arguement, I'm just in awe of the complexity of nature.:D

[Anthony Yakonick]

I've often wondered the same thing. I did notice that boxelder bugs are colored with the same shade of red.??? Maybe they are the carriers of the fungus? There is a lot of symbiotic relationships in the big outdoors. I know that when scientists tried to raise poison arrow frogs in captivity, well, they weren't poisonous anymore. I really don't believe in evolutionary theory because there are a lot of very complicated interactions between all kinds of bugs/plants/soils/environments. I think myself that someone did some careful planning. I'm not trying to start an arguement, I'm just in awe of the complexity of nature.:D

Boxelder beetles are not borers, in fact they are in the process of mating now and soon will be laying eggs all over my shed and pool. Film at 11;)

[Paul Downes]

Correct Anthony, They do however suck sap out of boxelder trees. And it's possible they introduce something while doing that. I have noticed that most red stain seems to be around injury sites and there is certainly often punky wood present. My dad was an Phd. entomologist and certainly had a 'wide eyed' view of mother nature. Believe me, bugs do a lot of seemingly bizare things. Nature is way more complicated than we often give credit. For instance; my dad was approached to study a beetle that on the same day every year congregated on the same tree on an island in the Panama canal. They mate and then disperse for another year. Why the same tree? Why the same day? How in the heck can they tell the date? :D Sure is amazing!

[Paul Douglass]

How about I scoop a few thousand box elder beetles off the south side of my house this week and send them to someone to put on there box elder. We could see if they cause damage. I HATE THEM BUGS!

edited to add: By the way John, that is a beautiful bowl!

[Anthony Yakonick]

How about I scoop a few thousand box elder beetles off the south side of my house this week and send them to someone to put on there box elder. We could see if they cause damage. I HATE THEM BUGS!

edited to add: By the way John, that is a beautiful bowl!
If you have boxelder beetles you have a female boxelder tree around.

[Anthony Yakonick]

This gets people going;) :D

[Frank Stevens]

Wow Anthony!!!! :eek:

That's the most red I've ever seen in a raw log of BE.

Anybody think the spikes will work?

Frank

[Chris Barton]

This gets people going;) :D

Ohhhh! I may have to be by myself for a while...

[Ron Ainge]

Anthony

I have a sever reaction to Box Elder but those are so bueatiful that I would have to tuen the any way and put up with the itch for a while. Great gloat you have there.

[Frank Stevens]

How about some reports on ratio of trees with red to trees with none. How's your luck been?

I cut a 10" trunk that had a 4" diameter ring of red that was about 3/4" thick or less surrounding about a 2" pith.
The red went straight up the tree for about 8-ten feet from the root ball.

This was the first one that I've cut where the red wasn't localized around some heart rot or similar damage.

Frank

[Anthony Yakonick]

How about some reports on ratio of trees with red to trees with none. How's your luck been?

I cut a 10" trunk that had a 4" diameter ring of red that was about 3/4" thick or less surrounding about a 2" pith.
The red went straight up the tree for about 8-ten feet from the root ball.

This was the first one that I've cut where the red wasn't localized around some heart rot or similar damage.

Frank
First the pile wasn't mine but I had my pick from it. I think size, age,health and location have a lot to do with the coloring. If you have a small <10" lone tree there isn't much chance for the coloring from insect damage. If you have a otherwise healthy tree 15"> in a wooded area with other maples there is a greater chance that the beetle has spread from tree to tree causing the "ambrosia" damage we know and love. In my area I'd guess that about 75% of the trees are what I'd call turnable. On the down side, the red will fade after a few years when exposed to sunlight.

Anthony