Advice for 100+ year old timbers

[Keith Barkhau]

Ok, this is kinda a weird question, but I could use some advice. Several years ago I had the opportunity to get some oak timbers from an old (100 + year old) barn as it was being torn down. They are all aprox. 4x4 to 6x6 and run between 8 and 10 feet and are heavy as hell. No problems so far, and quite a haul considering the price was my labor to pick them up.

The problem I have is all of them have nails in them--some just a couple, but most of them have several. And these are not modern nails, but your basic cut nail. Some of them are quite brittle--so they are more likely to snap or crumble instead of pull out clean. The ones that aren't brittle seem to have been hammed in by the hand of God--no amount of leverage seems to work. I've had these things for going on 10 years now and have moved them twice--'cause I don't know how to salvage them but I've so far been unwilling to give up and turn them into firewood.

So far I've tried a claw hammer, which succeeded in removing one nail, snapped off three, and then I actually sanpped the head of the hammer off trying to pull one out (cheap hammer). I then switched to a small prybar (Wonderbar), which had similar results (didn't break the prybar, but boy was it starting to flex).

So after that longwinded intro--any suggestions on how I can remove the nails from these timbers? Or should I have one nice bonfire before I run out of cold nights this spring?

[Mark Rios]

3 or 4 of those Lee Valley tool belts come to mind.:rolleyes:

[Denise Ohio]

Keith, I've been doing the same thing with old-growth doug fir and cedar. Granted, it ain't oak, but God was hammering these nails, too.

The cedar was easy---the square nails slipped out with some bad language from yours truly. The doug fir, though, was nailed when green and the nails just laugh at me.

First thing I do is tap them in a bit to loosen the grip between the nails and the wood. If the nails are sticking out too far and kind of bent, I wrap them in two blocks of wood or grip them with a vise grip or pliers to give the nail a little support so it will tend to move down and not sideways.

Then I use my cat'spaw, first with a 1"x2", then with a 2"x4" as fulcrums. The trick here, though, is to lock a small vise grip as tight as possible toward the bottom of the nail and pry under that. (BTW, this is beat the heck out of the vise grips, but the Gods of Wood expect sacrifice.)

I have actually stretched nails doing this but it usually works, even on nails missing that flat part I don't know the name of.

I'm not afraid to use a hammer to give the catspaw a few taps to get it going. The catspaw I have is 18", I think, but I'll probably go get a 4' later this week. (BTW, the catspaw will get the heck beaten out of it, too, but again, the Gods of Wood and all that.)

If the nails are below the surafce, I have a crappy chisel with which I dig into the wood to get enough clear around the head to use the above method.

I also accepted that in some places where the carpenters got nail happy, I just have to let go. I have some short pieces I will probably slice pieces from around nails and make coasters or shallow candle holders.

Hope this helps. I wear gloves and goggles, too, for safety and the amusement of my neighbors.

ohio

[Mark Berenbrok]

I use a Cooper Group Nail Puller for pulling old nails from heart-of-pine timbers. Occasionally a rusted nail will snap off, but they usually come out in one piece. It gives you a tremendous amount of leverage. Try a search over at Amazon.

[Lee Schierer]

As others said, try tapping them in to break the grip of the wood and rust. You can also heat them up. It may charr the wood a bit, but it will loosen the grip.

Most of the nails were problably pounded in when the wood was still curing and the wood shrank around them giving them a really good grip.

Beams that old could easily be chestnut depending upon what part of the country they came from.

[Frank Chaffee]

Keith,
First off, please disregard the excellent advice Denise has given you.
Are these timbers still in Wisconsin, or would you like me to pick them up in Naperville??? I can be there with only a few hours notice.
I can get a burning permit here with less trouble than you would have.
TeeHee,
Frank

[Mike Parzych]

If they're the kind of nails I'm thinking, they taper towards the point. How about drilling a hole(s) right next to them, then tapping the nail sideways into the drill holes to loosen them up? Since you've already got a hole from the nail, another one won't waste any lumber.

Lumber that old probably has very, very tight growth rings and harder than heck - all the better to grip those nails. Plus the additional drying over time top contracts the wood even tighter.

[Steve Clardy]

The broken off nails
Use a hole saw, 1" or so. Drill on top of the nail, the center bit to the side of the nail, 1/4' deep or so, chisel out the wood, then try removing the nail. May have to go deeper. You will loose some wood this way, but you can't use it till the nails are out.
Once its free of iron, contact someone with a a bandmill sawmill and have them slice it up.
Bandmills will cut through nails if they hit one, where as a circular saw mill, the iron will destroy the insert teeth on the blade.
You may have to pay for a blade or two, depends on the owner of the mill.

[lou sansone]

I guess I will ask the dumb question here ..... what are you going to do with the timbers once the nails are pulled out? are you planning on making flooring from them? Most old oak timbers I have seen used in barns were usually just put up green allowed to check naturally. those checks will come through pretty strongly in resawn flooring. Is is possible that you have an intended use for them that is not really possible ?

just wondering
lou

[John Bush]

Hi Keith,
I hauled the timbers from the barn on our farm(near Champaign Il) to Seattle to build my shop. Cathartic or stupid??--either way I had to pull hundreds of nails to clean them up for milling. I found that driving a narrow flat blade screwdriver along either side of the cut nail as far as you need to, then rotate to expand the wood a little, then drive the beaks of needlenose visegrips as far down the nail as you can, clamp it and use you gorilla bar to "extract" the nail.(That's how I extract third molars too) Worked well for me, but was time consuming. I bought a Garrett metal detector and it was very accurate and helped me find a lot of "stubs". Good luck, and be careful when you resaw. JCB

[Keith Barkhau]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

Lou, honestly I don't have a specific plan for the wood, although if I'm able to harvest some good lengths I was thinking a library table. Most likely it would go into furniture of some sort.

Steve--thanks for the suggestion on the suggestion on the bandsaw mill, it hadn't occurred to me to go that route when I'm ready to mill.

Denise, et.al--thanks for all the suggestions--I think I know now what I'm going to be doing this weekend.

Frank--if I don't have any luck I'll invite you to the bonfire. Can you bring the hot dogs?

[Mike Wilkins]

I often use old timbers and heart pine for projects, so nail removal in my shop gets lots of practice. The following tools really come in handy:
Exhumer-found this tool at Lowes which is marketed as a nail remover. It is great for digging out buried nails that are not too deep.
Channel Lock pliers. The curved head provides great leverage for nail pulling when you get a grip on it.
Plain ole pliers.
Old fashioned crow bar for the big guys.
And don't forget the claw hammer. Bigger is better with a metal handle.

[John Miliunas]

OK, this one will probably be of little help and info which many folks probably know already but, for those who might not: When using a typical claw hammer for pulling nails, I see many folks grab the nail head and then pull back on the handle, using the head for leverage or putting a block of wood under the center of the head for added leverage. Try this instead: grasp the nail head with the claw and roll the hammer over on its side, not back on the head. The side of the claw presents itself as a fulcrum point and the rest of the handle gives you a great lever advantage. Once you pull over as much as you can, take another "bite" and continue. I have found this method to work on some real stubborn nails with a whole lot less effort! :) :cool:

[Frank Chaffee]

OK, this one will probably be of little help and info which many folks probably know already but, for those who might not: When using a typical claw hammer for pulling nails, I see many folks grab the nail head and then pull back on the handle, using the head for leverage or putting a block of wood under the center of the head for added leverage. Try this instead: grasp the nail head with the claw and roll the hammer over on its side, not back on the head. The side of the claw presents itself as a fulcrum point and the rest of the handle gives you a great lever advantage. Once you pull over as much as you can, take another "bite" and continue. I have found this method to work on some real stubborn nails with a whole lot less effort! :) :cool:
John has called it right about how to use a claw hammer to remove nails. When force is applied on the symmetrical plane of the hammer, then the fulcrum becomes longer and longer, decreasing mechanical advantage and increasing stress on the hammer handle, which may lead to breaking the handle.
An elaboration of the method he describes is to take alternate bites on opposite sides of the nail, thereby increasing the claw/nail angle, and getting a better grab.
Frank

[Bruce Volden]

I've used a holesaw/plug cutter and got down ~1" (or more) and have had success. What to watch out for are those looooong 3"+ spikes one occasionlly runs into, haven't figured out a workaround for those. Also, it is highly recommended getting a strong (rare earth) magnet and taking ones time to properly mark all "hits", then coming back to them!!???

Bruce