Back to Bowl Gouges.......

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

What do you think of the Henry Taylor bowl gouges that Grizzly sells?

I have an order in with Grizzly, some stuff is back ordered, thus I thought to add a bowl gouge or two, to my order.

HT 1/2" Bowl Gouge (http://www.grizzly.com/products/H0492)

HT 3/8" Bowl Gouge (http://www.grizzly.com/products/H0491)

man I just realized that one of those gouges costs more than the chuck! :eek:

maybe I should just make my own...? ;)

Can I harden mild steel enough to make it work...?

Cheers!

[John Hart]

With your skills Stu...I just don't know why you would buy. Hardening steel is certainly dependent on metalurgy, but it seems you have the right steel to start with. Tempering can be done with a torch and oil. 'Course then...there's nothing like a shiney new tool.;)

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

With your skills Stu...I just don't know why you would buy. Hardening steel is certainly dependent on metalurgy, but it seems you have the right steel to start with. Tempering can be done with a torch and oil. 'Course then...there's nothing like a shiney new tool.;)

Well thanks for helping me make my decission there John..... :rolleyes: :D

yeah, that is about the problem I have, I would really like a nice new tool, but , making one is my way, most of the time.

OK, then, lets shift this to bowl gouge size.

(talking US sizes here) 3/8" or 1/2"...?

Cheers!

[Jim Dunn]

Stu why not order a slightly cheaper model from PSI, Woodturnerscatalog or some other company. The Robert Sorby is just about the Cadillac of tools. You can get an Artisan (cheaper Henry Taylor) for about half of those prices.


You can tell from my turning that I'm not affiliated with either of those companies. In fact, if I were, it would be a good reason not to order from them.

[John Hart]

Sorry...can't help with your bowl gouge selection. I don't own a bowl gouge.:o

[Jim Dunn]

I've only got one and it's an Artisan. Scarey tool till you read how to use it. Talk about catches, I'm sure glad my chuck is locked down with Lock-Tite:eek::)

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Sorry...can't help with your bowl gouge selection. I don't own a bowl gouge.:o

OK, how do you turn bowls?

(says the newbie to wood turning)

[John Hart]

I do everything with a scraper and skew. I believe the fundamentals lie within....and that's what I'm trying to learn right now. I may get a bowl gouge in the future, but I want to master the other two first. Just my way....as incorrect as that may seem.:o

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I do everything with a scraper and skew. I believe the fundamentals lie within....and that's what I'm trying to learn right now. I may get a bowl gouge in the future, but I want to master the other two first. Just my way....as incorrect as that may seem.:o

OIC.........

Well scrapers give me lots of vibes on my C-man lathe, the gouge seems to cut smoother. Isn't a gouge just a curved skew....? :D

[Mark Cothren]

Stu - I have a 3/8", 1/2", and 5/8" P&N gouges (buy 'em unhandled and roll your own).

I use the 5/8" the majority of the time when roughing and the 1/2" the majority of the time when finish turning. The 3/8" is used occasionally - it's nice to have it when I need/want it.

FYI - they all have an Irish grind on them.



John - I don't think I could turn a bowl with just a scraper and skew. The few times I've been dumb enough to put a skew in my hand I've suffered the consequences...:o I'm fairly convinced that skews are spawned from the devil. Oh well, I do use it occasionally as a scraper...:D

[Andy Hoyt]

John - Put me out of my misery, please.

Are you using the skew on bowls with the cutting edge leading the attack, or as a shear scraper with cutting edge bringing up the rear?

[Glenn Clabo]

I do everything with a scraper and skew.

Shoot me...I quit! Does anyone want a nice new DVR?

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Shoot me...I quit! Does anyone want a nice new DVR?

Sure.... free shipping included?? :D

[David Fried]

John,

Motorcycles have two axles - talk to Stu!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Actually the bike that came from has two axles, and one swingarm pivot that it almost exactly the same size! :D

[John Hart]

John - Put me out of my misery, please.

Are you using the skew on bowls with the cutting edge leading the attack, or as a shear scraper with cutting edge bringing up the rear?

Ok...at the risk of completely embarrassing myself...here's what I do.

1. Mount the chunk of wood on a faceplate using screws.
2. Turn the blank round with a roughing gouge
3. Rough profile the outside with a round-nosed scraper
4. Cut the chuck tenon using the skew point
5. Put a light finish grind on the skew
6. Smooth out all convex surfaces with the skew (shearing)
7. Put a light finish grind on the scraper
8. Smooth out all concave surfaces with the scraper
9. Turn the bowl around and chuck it.
10. Bore a hole to my desired depth by plunging the round-nose scraper
11. If an endgrain bowl...attack the walls of the bored hole with the scraper, moving outward toward the edge in 1/8" layers.
12. If a face-grain bowl....attack the edge of the bored hole, moving outward in 1/8" increments, plunging in about 1/2" each time.
13. Once I have my rough wall thickness, I use the point of the skew to define the lip by following the curvature and driving the skew along that curve, allowing the squareness of the skew to ride the curve and give control....this sets my final wall thickness.
14. Using a variety of scrapers (Bertha, Ugly Stick, Round-nose) I put a nice finish grind on them and lightly go over the inside bowl surface, varying my attack angle for each change in curvature direction.
15. Sand
16. Turn the bowl around and create the foot using the round-nose scraper for large removal, point of the skew for flat surfaces and details, and a bunch of Itty-Bitty tools to do some cool stuff.
17. Throw bowl in the fire and start over.:D

[Andy Hoyt]

Phew!

I had an image that caused a degree of puckering.

Looks okay, except for #16. Did you mean to say "remove"?

16. Turn the bowl around and create the foot using the round-nose scraper for large removal, point of the skew for flat surfaces and details, and a bunch of Itty-Bitty tools to do some cool stuff.

[John Hart]

Phew!

I had an image that caused a degree of puckering.

Looks okay, except for #16. Did you mean to say "remove"?

16. Turn the bowl around and create the foot using the round-nose scraper for large removal, point of the skew for flat surfaces and details, and a bunch of Itty-Bitty tools to do some cool stuff.

Well...I mean "create" a foot by "removing" the tenon and enhancing the bowl of that foot. Sometimes the foot rim is the outer diameter of the tenon...but on a larger foot, the tenon is just an island in the middle that gets removed entirely. Did that make sense :confused:

[Michael Cody]

Stu, the HT gouges are actually cheap compared to others.. you are going to pay over 50$ for most brands - though P&N's might be cheaper if you can find them in someone to ship to Tokyo. I have to say though I bet the gouge you made will be just about as good. Gouges have been around for years, the deep flute designs are over 20 years old(maybe older), the only supposed innovations are in steel holding an edge longer. Your best bet it to watch the auctions or go this route with the HT or a Sorby. As to size, I have to admit I like my 1/2" only for bigger stuff .. I use my 3/8" Sorby almost exclusively. As to scrapers.. they won't vibrate if they are thick enough.. you can buy basic 3/8" O1 tool steel and make one here in the US for about 20$ or less.. don't know the steel prices in Japan.. Scrapers are easy to make. Another choice is to buy some carbide cutting tips for steel and build a mounting bar out of 1/2" round stock and lock the tip in w/a set screw or CA glue. Then you can do all kinds of neat things like setting them at an angle, etc... the heavy round stock controls the vibration. You could even grind a flute-less gouge shape into a tip w/o much work and away you go. The flute design basically helps channel away chips and gives you a cutting edge instead of a scraper edge.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Stu, the HT gouges are actually cheap compared to others.. you are going to pay over 50$ for most brands - though P&N's might be cheaper if you can find them in someone to ship to Tokyo. I have to say though I bet the gouge you made will be just about as good. Gouges have been around for years, the deep flute designs are over 20 years old(maybe older), the only supposed innovations are in steel holding an edge longer. Your best bet it to watch the auctions or go this route with the HT or a Sorby. As to size, I have to admit I like my 1/2" only for bigger stuff .. I use my 3/8" Sorby almost exclusively. As to scrapers.. they won't vibrate if they are thick enough.. you can buy basic 3/8" O1 tool steel and make one here in the US for about 20$ or less.. don't know the steel prices in Japan.. Scrapers are easy to make. Another choice is to buy some carbide cutting tips for steel and build a mounting bar out of 1/2" round stock and lock the tip in w/a set screw or CA glue. Then you can do all kinds of neat things like setting them at an angle, etc... the heavy round stock controls the vibration. You could even grind a flute-less gouge shape into a tip w/o much work and away you go. The flute design basically helps channel away chips and gives you a cutting edge instead of a scraper edge.

Oh stop it Michael, you are putting all kinds of ideas into my head :D:D:D

[Andy Hoyt]

Gotcha, John.

Perfect example of why I have an urgent need for an optirectomy.

What was written, what I read, and what I intuit are often discombobulated by a clogged artery in my optirectal nerve center.

Translated - what I say proves I'm an ass.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Stu..........A couple of members here have sent me several URLs of sites that offer reduced prices on turning tools. Most of these sites also have limited selections that they sell. If you'd like I can email or PM you with these sites URLs. I don't know if they ship to Japan.

That being said, my limited experience with turning tools......I like my Roberty Sorby roughing gouge the best of the tools I have. Just appears to be the best built...........I have some Robert Larson turning tools...quite a few, in fact. They are well built.....Sheffield HSS steel.....ash handles turned and assembled here in the USA. They are good but I think the Sorby is a little better.

The bowl gouge..........I used it on some scrap for learning and on the one bowl I have soaking in DNA. The bowl gouge by design is a deeper flute for added strength and consequently must be presented to the rotating wood a little different. The bowl gouge is thicker and beefier allowing it to reach farther away from the rest without breaking. I will probably regrind mine with a Irish grind but am currently using the conventional grind.

[Dennis Peacock]

Del Stubbs first bowl gouge was a 3/4" iron pipe with the end cut to leave a cutter tip that he would sharpen and turn bowls with that. Said it was great, but the wood shavings would clog the pipe.

Turning tools have been made from a LOT of things, screwdrivers, allen wrenches, old files, nails, and you name it. You'll never know until you try.

[Kurt Forbes]

Stu a ball end mill 3/8 or 1/4 inch and some nice hard steel (think axle shaft) would make a fun evening for you.
The ball end mill tips are almost perfect for the flute of a decent gouge.
1/2 inch stock for the 1/4 mill give it a try all you loose is a short length of steel and 30 mins of time on a mill.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Well I do not have a mill, I'd sure like one, it is on my list of tools to buy before I die, but right now, don't have it :(

I do not even know where I could get access to one.

I was thinking of griding the flute with a small angle grinder in a jig I would make.

I also have to find a place to get the stock of steel....

Fun Fun Fun!:D

[Raymond Overman]

Stu,

I'll second Mark Cothren's motion for P&N gouges. They come unhandled and are less expensive than the Crown, Sorby, HT, and others. I have a 5/8 that I do most of my bowl work with and a 3/8 for the small stuff or tight spaces.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Huh, I'd not seen them before, it looks like Lee Valley sells them....

35601

Why the black finish?

Sure are cheaper unhanded.

Thanks for the tip.

Cheers!

[Mark Cothren]

Why the black finish?!

It's the special voodoo magic that they put on 'em. Makes 'em never get a catch, never leave a tool mark, and never land tip-down when dropped on a concrete floor.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mark...you can get the same effect by rolling some chicken bones on the floor in front of you lathe!:D

[Mark Cothren]

Well then... might just have to visit the Colonel tonight...:D

[Raymond Overman]

Well then... might just have to visit the Colonel tonight...:D

MMMMMMmmmmmm, chicken.

[Dennis Peacock]

OK...ya'll can stop now....you're making me hawngreeeee.....:rolleyes:

[Michael Cody]

Stu, something along the lines of this would save some cash:

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/cgi-bin/shopper?search=action&keywords=kelton-gouge
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/cgi-bin/shopper?preadd=action&key=279-0001

But I use these for hollowing tools:

"Round Carbide Blanks" (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=325-2396&PMPXNO=5809269&PARTPG=INLMK3)

"Square Tool Bits" (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=383-5751&PMPXNO=2611159&PARTPG=INLMK3)

Got to believe you can find this stuff in Tokyo...

[Raymond Overman]

Mike my man, you're paying too much for your bits...

http://www.wttool.com/c/22180005p

[Lee DeRaud]

Mike my man, you're paying too much for your bits...

http://www.wttool.com/c/22180005pSome neat stuff at that site...my favorite is:
http://wttool.com/p/1240-0520
Don't think my UPS guy is set up to handle it though.:eek:

[Jim Dunn]

Lee it's only grade B. Not accurate enough for your shop is it?? Try an AAA at about 5,000lbs and we'll talk.

[Lee DeRaud]

Lee it's only grade B. Not accurate enough for your shop is it?? Try an AAA at about 5,000lbs and we'll talk.I'm in southern California: even a grade B will be the most stable piece of rock in the county.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

So, I found a place here that sells the Henry Talor Bowl Gouges, the Super Flutes.

There are two I'm looking at;

3/8" HS85 8610 yen ($78)
5/8" HS1 16590 yen ($150)

Do these priced seem way out of line?

I've not been able to find anything but the elcheapo sets, and the high end HT stuff.....

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Stu...........I found them at a site on the internet for $39 and $69 US......

Don't know if they'd ship to Japan..If you like the link ...let me know. I ordered my Sorby roughing gouge from them and they gave good service.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Stu...........I found them at a site on the internet for $39 and $69 US......

Don't know if they'd ship to Japan..If you like the link ...let me know. I ordered my Sorby roughing gouge from them and they gave good service.
Ya, that is what I suspect, they want another $15 per item to ship :eek:

I think I'll just order from the US, or Canada, might even just go for the tool part only and turn my own handles, save some money on shipping ;)

Shipping sucks, that $42 Grizzly chuck...? Well the shipping was something like $45, still, I'm ahead, but.....

Life in the big city I guess :D

Ken, please send me the link.

Cheers!