LDD/Alcohol

[Reed Gray]

Since I started reading at this site, it seems that a lot of you turners use the denatured alcohol bath method to help dry your bowl blanks. Not many use the LDD (liquid dishwashing detergent). I have experimented with both methods, and the only real difference that I notice is that the LDD bowls sand a whole lot easier than the air dried, or DN bowls. I heard some turners claim that the DN method makes the wood harder, and had thought that I had noticed that before I heard it said, but the power of suggestion may have played a role there. I haven't noticed that there is any improvement in succesful drying with any of the 3 methods (third method being air drying on a rack in the shop. It is fairly humid and mild here in Oregon). I do turn to final thickness (1/4 to 1/2 inch thick) and then dry the bowls before sanding. For testing purposes, I used Madrone, one of our Northwest natives that is notorious for moving after it is dry, and during drying it moves more than any wood I have seen. I have one finished bowl that is egg shaped, 13 1/2 inches long, 9 inches wide, and 4 1/2 inches high. The grain is centered in the bottom. None of the drying methods seem to make any difference on movement or cracking. I have soaked for 24 hours to about a month with a number of woods and the results seem to hold to true. I am curious about comments from others if you have noticed any of this?
robo hippy

[Edward E Wilson Jr]

I posted eariler on using the liquid method, trying to get some answers. All replies to me were helpful. What I would really like to know is the step by step action taken for LDD

Ed

[Frank Parker]

I use the dna method and I still get alot of checking and warping, If it's a wood that i know moves alot than I make wood soup by boiling it for about 1 hour and letting it cool in the water, than i set it aside to dry untill all the surface water is gone than I drop it in the dna and treat it as any green turned wood. this really seems to work with big movers like Madrone, you still get some minor movement and little or no checking. One thing I've found out is it's important to get your green turned pieces roughed out at a uniform thickness. Mainly I use the dna method because it cuts down the drying time from 4 to 6 months to 4 to 6 weeks. I'm not very patient.
Frank

[John Hart]

Like Edward, I'd like to hear about a step-by-step procedure, and I am seriously leaning toward boiling, then doing the detergent thing. If I were to speculate, I'd guess that boiling actually strengthens the plant cells in the green wood by making them less pliable...maybe then, they move less while drying. I hear over and over, that sanding is easier with LDD so I'm very interested in that since I really hate sanding.:)

[Reed Gray]

I am a regular at Google's rec. woodturners, and the method has been described a lot (Leif Thorvaldson). Start with equal parts of LDD and water. Use the amber LDD, and the cheaper the better. Blue LDD will color the wood. Take a freshly turned bowl and soak for 24 hours or so. Remove. Some put them on a rack and let them drip. I wipe as much off as I can with my hands, and then take them into the sink and rinse. Then dry as you usually do, on a rack or shelf, brown paper bag or whatever. When dry, then return, or in my case since I turn to final thickness, I sand and finish. They need to dry for a couple of weeks, this gets the fragrance time to dissapate. I finish with walnut oil and beeswax, and don't have any problems with the finish going on or in. I never spray. Sometimes I will use a furniture oil (Deft) on my 'art' pieces, and there are no problems with that finish application. Some people sand and finish as soon as they take it out of the soap. If the sand paper clogs up, it is easy to remove with the rubber sticks. I believe it is because of the glycerine in the soap. Once dry, I haven't been able to detect any taste and only very little smell from the soap. What smell there is will eventually disappear.
The biggest advantage that I can see for this method is that it makes sanding so much easier. Big leaf Maple is one of those woods that to me seems to glaze over quickly when power sanding, and get harder to sand, and burns easily, kind of like cherry. It seems to be impossible to burn it when sanding if it has the LDD soaking. The dust comes off like big wet snow flakes rather than powder. Any of the harder woods sand easier like locust, osage, myrtle, walnut, etc.
I am still experimenting with it, and think that I may eventually go back to just air drying, mostly because it is an extra step, but haven't made up my mind yet.
Reed

[Frank Stevens]

I've been playing with the LDD method but I used more like a 6-1 ratio than 50-50. Haven't finished turned anything yet but they are all drying nicely. Got the ratio off the internet. Haven't read anything before that was as strong as 50-50.
Is that supposed to be the norm?

I did my first DNA soak the other day. GreenBox Elder pen blanks that were heavy on the red. They seemed to be a couple of shades lighter on the red....more pink looking after they dried.

My question is, did the DNA leech out some of the color or would they have lightened up when they dried anyway? :confused: Maybe just on the surface and they'll darken when I start turning? Will most of the color come back when I apply the finish?
Anybody else experience any loss of color from different woods when they were all done?

Thanks,
Frank

[John Hart]

It's my guess that since the red in Box Elder is fungal, the alcohol may have washed it away. It got Unfungded.:confused:

[Robert Mickley]

I'm very interested in that since I really hate sanding.:)

I didn't think sanding was a problem,, :D :D :D

With the rising cost of DNA I'm going to stick with boiling. I've had my best luck there. Besides, firewood, and water are cheap.

[John Hart]

I didn't think sanding was a problem,, :D :D :D....

Sure....You have that fancy schmancy sanding spinnin' thang. Which I'll have in a couple days....thanks to you.

I'm going to do the boiling as well. Got to move to the country first and set up a big ol' witches cauldron.

[Reed Gray]

Both DA, and LDD leach out soome color, but not a whole lot. You will notice the color change in your solution.
robo hippy

[Robert Mickley]

Sure....You have that fancy schmancy sanding spinnin' thang. Which I'll have in a couple days....thanks to you.

I'm going to do the boiling as well. Got to move to the country first and set up a big ol' witches cauldron.
You wouldn't be insinuating I cost you money would you ?? :D

Don't worry I was glad to do it!!!

Did you order them from Steve?

[Paul Downes]

I haven't noticed any apreciable color change using the LDD method on red boxelder. I rough turn the bowls and soak them in a 4 or 5 to 1 mix for anywere from 2 days to months. (only because I forgot they were in the soap) They have all warped some. The soap does seem to improve the turning of the wood, adds some lubricity, obviously. I have noticed that the wall next to the lathe has soap splatter all over it. Got to remember to dry them down a little first. Good thing to wear a face shield. The theory behind LDD is that the soap keeps the wood cells from collapsing, preventing cracks.