Non concealed weapon across state lines LEGALLY [Archive]

Rob Littleton

04-01-2006, 10:36 AM

tod evans

04-01-2006, 10:42 AM

rob, my suggestion is to avoid going to california and you won`t need to pack a gun.....honestly though call your local atf office and be sure to get in writing their procedures. many locals have different regulations but if you`re able to produce documentation from the atf they`ll leave you alone....i ain`t no lawyer! so take my advice for......02 tod

edit; dissregard this post! obviously i know next to nothing about this matter, tod

Ken Fitzgerald

04-01-2006, 10:45 AM

Laws vary....state by state............Not sure........I'd contact some local law enforcement departments in the areas where you are planning to visit. In Idaho, a few years ago, to carry a weapon in the field, timber, woods, etc., you were required to have a valid hunting license. It used to be fairly easy to obtain a concealed weapons permit here too! It was likewise easy to get a concealed weapons permit in the Washington State county just across the Snake River from us. I know a lot of people who had concealed weapon permits in both states....camp in both states and are armed. Regardless of the law.........in Idaho...in the woods....campgrounds....mountains........don't start "messing" with folks ....you can just about bet your next paycheck they are armed.

Lee DeRaud

04-01-2006, 10:51 AM

Tod, ATF is absolutely the wrong place to go for information: the laws in question are strictly state-level except with regard to continuous transit through another state.

Bottom line, "open carry" is illegal in California. Unloaded in the trunk of the car is your best bet, keep the ammo in a separate container, and don't bring any high-capacity magazines. (Yes, I know the laws here are not quite that restrictive, but the cop that pulls you over will call it as he sees it.)

Joe Chritz

04-01-2006, 11:09 AM

The best bet is to contact each prosecutor office for every county you will travel through.

The easiest is to contact the state law enforcement agency and speak to someone there. While every state is different every county PA handles cases different and has different takes on the law.

Nearly all states accept a vaild CCW from another state. Nearly all have no problem with unloaded firearms in a locked container, especially outside the passenger compartment. Keep ammo in a seperate locked container.

Some states have laws about only transporting for shows, sale, to ranges, hunting, etc.

Gun laws are confusing enough in one state that most cops don't understand them all. Add a couple states and it is even worse. Go to www.packing.org (http://www.packing.org) or this http://nraila.org/GunLaws/FederalGunLaws.aspx?ID=59. Its a guide to interstate firearms transportation.

FWIW anytime I go to another state with firearms I do so unloaded in a locked case except for the one I carry concealed everywhere.

I am a cop in Michigan. If you have contact with officers anywhere just be polite and don't do anything without asking. Its hard to tell if you are being nice because you are or because you are waiting for an opportunity.

You aren't paranoid if people really are out to get you. :D It is sad but that is how things really are out there.

Good luck

Joe

Lee DeRaud

04-01-2006, 11:16 AM

Nearly all states accept a vaild CCW from another state.California is one of the exceptions: no reciprocity whatsoever.

Bart Leetch

04-01-2006, 11:23 AM

California is one of the exceptions: no reciprocity whatsoever.

I would think that would not include federal officers & then they tell California to stick in their ear.:p :eek: :D chuckle

Jim Davenport

04-01-2006, 11:26 AM

Here's a link to concealed carry "reciprocy" laws from the state of Florida. This may be of help. Usually the attorny General's office of the state in question has information, usually on the web.
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html

Lee DeRaud

04-01-2006, 11:34 AM

I would think that would not include federal officers & then they tell California to stick in their ear.:p :eek: :D chuckleA "federal officer" hardly falls into the "CCW from another state" category, eh?

nic obie

04-01-2006, 9:48 PM

Cops every where dislike any, other themselves, to have or own guns.

It's just best to avoid trouble and hide them.

Sad but most likely true :cool: .

Ken Fitzgerald

04-01-2006, 10:05 PM

Nic...........my oldest son is a deputy sheriff........He doesn't mind others having guns..........he just wants it done legally and he doesn't want idiots having them. The trouble is as pointed out by Joe Chritz you don't know who's a good guy and who's a bad guy! It's easy for someone who isn't "On the line" to be overly critical of those who daily put their lives in harm's way for the rest of us. Even before 2 of my 3 children got into law enforcement (currently on the oldest son) I never had trouble with any law enforcement officer or for that matter, F&G officer. I'm always..open....friendly....respectful...call them "Officer".....tell them I have a gun......make no quick movements.....But now if you start giving them some lip....get cocky....act nervous.......make a quick motion......Hey their butt is on the line...everyday every moment....I also never carry a loaded gun.....it's always cased and the ammo isn't with the gun......I may have a gun in a gun rack in the pickup but it's unloaded....Treated with respect officers of the law are just people like the rest of us. Besides.......I know who potty trained one of them!:D

nic obie

04-01-2006, 10:17 PM

Hi Ken,

I agree with you about sucking up to the law, but still would advise hiding your guns. What does it hurt hiding your firearms from the police anyway? It's not as if you are planning to shoot somebody just because you have them in the trunk or in the back seat under a blanket.

:D

Obviously I am anti gun control and will not post about it in this thread again.

Peace brother.....

Jim Becker

04-01-2006, 10:27 PM

Rob, I am of the opinion that displaying the hardware leads too easily to potential misinterpretation--and it doesn't matter about "who". I agree with those who have expressed the advise to keep them hidden and hidden safely. Especially since you have kids... ;)

Joe Chritz

04-01-2006, 10:38 PM

Not to spark any major debate for Nic but...

Most of the law officers I know are not anti-gun nor do they dislike people to own them. I don't live in CA (thanks god for small miracles) however so maybe things are different on the west coast.

I still don't want anyone holding a gun when I'm dealing with them in any context. It doesn't take many times for someone to point a gun at you before you decide it isn't any fun.

In Michigan if you are carrying a gun with a CCW it is a crime to not disclose its presence upon contact with an officer. In all other cases deception indicates guilt, even if you are only guilty of disliking the government.

Lastly I never advocate "sucking up" to anyone. Showing proper respect is a different animal all together. Rule #1 in my house is always be nice. I go out of my way to be nice as much as possible. If someone mistakes my kindness for weakness...well then shame on them.

Gun violence is a huge problem. It is not a huge problem because of guns or availablility of guns. That is a social problem that I would love to discuss over a few beers someday.

Joe

Ken Fitzgerald

04-01-2006, 10:56 PM

And thank you Joe.....for what you do!.....Mind you I'm not sucking up....I'm just trying to show a little respect for someone doing a job that I wouldn't do for all the tea in China!:D I still haven't figured out my oldest son.....

Rob Littleton

04-01-2006, 11:25 PM

Gentlemen,

thank you for your input.

Got an awesome link from this thread that has all my answers. I appreciate your help.

FWIW, when the guns are in the house they will certainly be locked and out of access of little hands. That is not a problem. Locked in a wall mounted cabinet in the shop and the keys only accessible by ME. (maybe the wife too, but not around PMS time :-).

Appreciate it fellas. Fanx a lot

Vaughn McMillan

04-02-2006, 4:00 AM

(Also not trying to spark a debate...) Nic, in my experience as a long-haired hippie-looking gun owner, and who's been friends with several cops, I agree with Joe in that most (if not all) cops would rather not be surprised about the fact that you have a gun. I've never come across one that didn't want me to have my gun, but they appreciated hearing about it before they found it themselves. In at least one instance, I believe that by being straightforward and honest with the officer about the loaded gun in the console of my Jeep, he let me slide on other things he could have written me up for.

I grew up in a house with lots of guns, and even as a young kid I was taught safe gun handling. There was a loaded handgun in every car my dad owned, and I did the same when I started owning handguns. I finally stopped carrying a loaded handgun in the car a few years after I moved to CA. I figured it really wasn't worth a felony conviction. I prefer places like New Mexico, where you car is considered an extension of your home, so concealed in the car is legal. (Or it was last I checked.)

- Vaughn

Michael Gibbons

04-02-2006, 5:33 PM

FWIW, when the guns are in the house they will certainly be locked and out of access of little hands. That is not a problem. Locked in a wall mounted cabinet in the shop and the keys only accessible by ME.

My father was a police officer in Detroit and when he said "Do Not Touch" he meant it and I never did. I had the fear of God and of his 3" wide belt. One time during a Thanksgiving dinner my grandmother called upstairs to us and said someone was breaking in next door. We went to investigate, then my dad told me to go get his gun:( . I ran back upstairs, went to the cabinet where he kept it off-duty and I just stood there. My hand wouldn't move towards the gun. Then my mom came in and handed it to me and I ran down the stairs carrying it by the barrel. Then my dad went next door and started shooting at the intruders. NOTE: ( this was a day and age when there was no such thing as excessive force). Anyways he caught one guy, had the guy on the ground with his gun in the back of his head then my grampa came over who was also a retired cop was standing with his foot on the guys head. The other went back out the front door, and scrambled down the street. when they broke in, the guy who got away must have cut himself because the next day the investigators followed a blood trail down the block to someones house who said" I don't know nothing" It'a wonder that the crime rate goes down when a state passes a right-to-carry law.

Ken Salisbury

04-02-2006, 5:49 PM

Any of you guys got any good resources on information about carrying of guns across the state line of your residence state to another state. More precisely, from AZ to CA.

Off on vacation and am thinking of taking the guns but want to do it legally.

I can wear a weapon on my belt in AZ and freely roam around but CA, I aint sure. Nor am I sure of how to carry it across state.

cheers
This link (http://www.legallyarmed.com/traveling.htm) lists which States honor other State CWP's. You can also purchase a Legally Armed Travel Guide $6.00 + S&H (scroll to the very bottom of the web page)

It indicates Califorinia honors Arizona permits.

Lee DeRaud

04-02-2006, 7:54 PM

This link (http://www.legallyarmed.com/traveling.htm) lists which States honor other State CWP's. You can also purchase a Legally Armed Travel Guide $6.00 + S&H (scroll to the very bottom of the web page)

It indicates Califorinia honors Arizona permits.Or not. Actually it indicates that Arizona honors California permits, not the other way around:

The states of Arizona, Georgia, Idaho, Mississippi, and Montana, have twenty-one (21) states that honor their state license or permit to carry weapons. Here is list of the states that honor their CCW license or permit:
ARIZONA
Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Wyoming.

Note that California is not one of those listed. Going the other direction:

The states of California, Connecticut, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nevada, and Oregon, each have twelve (12) states that honor their state license or permit to carry weapons. Here is list of the states that honor their CCW license or permit:
CALIFORNIA
Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Utah, Verrnont.

Mike Cutler

04-02-2006, 10:23 PM

The laws from state to state vary widely on carrying guns, and there is a lot of misinformation and "roadside legal advise" dispensed on the 'net. Know the laws, even if you have to hire an attorney to research them for you. Running afoul of these laws can lead to mandatory sentencing in some states, ie.. CT. Even the trooper may not be able to help you.

As responsible gun owners, trying to protect what is left of our Second Ammendment Rights. We need to not do things that compromise our existing rights.
According to NRA research,polls and articles.The majority of local law enforcment agencies, and the rank and file officers, support your right to exercise your 2nd Ammendment rights within the boundries of the law. This is not a voice that anyone that wants to continue to be able to carry a firearm legally wants to alienate. Co-operate with the officer on the side of the road, he/she may be the person that keeps you out of jail at the courthouse.

Sorry to hop on the soapbox, but as someone that used to compete in shotgun and pistol competitions, and hunted in different states. I would like to be able to do so again some day, time permitting. I apologize for the tone, but this is a pretty serious subject.

Andy Hoyt

04-02-2006, 11:03 PM

Bart Leetch

04-02-2006, 11:16 PM

So is a rifle locked in a case & ammo locked in a separate case locked in a car trunk considered concealed?

Mike Cutler

04-03-2006, 8:58 AM

If I was the civil authority in a position to grant you permission, the first two questions that I'd ask are:

Why do you need to bring a firearm into my state?
And why must it be concealed when you do so? There would be numerous follow up questions.

Andy.

Maine offers a number of hunting opportunities that attract out of state hunters. This brings in a not so small amount of income to the state from permit fees, and of course the money spent on meals, lodging and beer. Maine also has some of the best areas for field trial competition for dogs. The area around the Merrymeeting bay is awesome for dog training and competition.
Maine has some very sensible laws for out of state hunters. You do however have to drive through Mass and NH to get there. So you need to also be legal in those two states.
I do not believe that Maine allowed me to carry a concealed weapon the last ime I went there for a competition. Connecticut's laws require the pistol to be carried concealed, but that doesn't automatically give you the right to carry concealed everywhere.
The last time I brought a pistol into Maine there was a process to check in ahead of time, so as to not run afoul of the law. It was pretty easy, and there would be no reason to challenge Maine's requirements.
Even though I have a concealed carry permit. I personally do no carry a weapon just for the sake of having it. I need it to legally transport a pistol in Ct.

Cliff Rohrabacher

04-03-2006, 10:21 AM

So is a rifle locked in a case & ammo locked in a separate case locked in a car trunk considered concealed?

No. It's actually the best thing to do lock the unloaded gun in a box separate from the locked box with the ammo.

The Trunk is still sacred space under Federal law.

To search the trunk they must do one of the following:
Get a warrant
or
Have the car towed to a police impound lot . "Al's Towing" isn't good enough.

The boxes being locked is even better.

Federal law lets you carry across state lines in a locked box.

State laws prosecutors and cops may differ but you should win the day after you spend 20-Grand on legal defense.

Then if the cops violated your ciivil rights by searching illegally you can sue 'em in federal court.

Jim Davenport

04-03-2006, 10:27 AM

Here's the federal law about transporting firearms accross state lines. I copied this from the the state of Florida link, I posted above.

Sec 18 USC 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms.
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
Interstate travel with a firearm is, therefore, permissible as long as the firearm is unloaded and in such a place that it is completely inaccessible (preferably the trunk of the vehicle).
HOWEVER, WE STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT CITIZENS PLANNING TO TRAVEL WITH A FIREARM SHOULD CALL THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OR LICENSING AUTHORITIES IN THE STATES TO OR THROUGH WHICH THEY WILL BE TRAVELING TO OBTAIN THE LATEST INFORMATION REGARDING WEAPON TRANSPORT LAWS. IN SOME CASES, STATE LAW TAKES PRECEDENCE OVER FEDERAL LAW REGARDING INTERSTATE TRANSPORT OF FIREARMS.

Curt Harms

04-03-2006, 5:21 PM

Gun violence is a huge problem. It is not a huge problem because of guns or availablility of guns. That is a social problem that I would love to discuss over a few beers someday.

Joe

Social problem? Oooh yeah. I'll bet You see some things that make you wonder just WHAT species that was. My hat's off to You and your fellow officers.

Curt

Joe Chritz

04-04-2006, 12:26 AM

Social problem? Oooh yeah. I'll bet You see some things that make you wonder just WHAT species that was. My hat's off to You and your fellow officers.

Curt

Thanks Curt.

That makes me wonder if you were watching today at work. I will say it is nothing if not interesting sometimes.

One of the old timers told me years ago when I started that "somedays are good days, somedays are not good days."

Today was a funny day.

All the best back at ya.

Joe

Lopaka Garcia

04-04-2006, 4:46 AM

From what I've read and seen on media, ok so this isn't going to be the best sources, the states that allow CCW has the least gun related violence or crimes. Like I said, I don't know how good those sources of information are but I'm sure someone out there must know. I for one believe all states should allow CCW as long as you're not a convicted felon which is the criteria for getting a gun permit to begin with. The theory amongst the supporters are...they'll think twice before they attempt to commit a crime against someone that might be armed. How come only the bad guys get to carry guns anyway? Ok I'm getting down from the soapbox. I forgot we were in a woodworking forum. Have I shown you the AK-47 I made out of Walnut? :D

Julio Navarro

04-04-2006, 2:54 PM

If I was the civil authority in a position to grant you permission, the first two questions that I'd ask are:

Why do you need to bring a firearm into my state?
And why must it be concealed when you do so?There would be numerous follow up questions.

The need to bring a gun inot any state is obvious, protection. The need to conceal it is so as not to cause undo concern. To acquire a CCW permit you must demonstrate proper use and care as well as some skill in handling the gun in addition to clean criminal and mental record. In other words by having a CCW permit the state that issues it trusts you know how to care and use it. But it would be un-nerving to see someone with a gun walking around. And of course it goes wioth out saying that criminals would love know if you have a gun or not both to avoid you and/or to take it from you at an opportune moment.