Table saw insert movement!!!

[Kent Parker]

The other day I made the rather unpleasant discovery (during usage) that about 3" of my table saw insert is not supported at the far end.

35353

I don't recall ever having a table saw that caused this condition and I've used and or owned seven or eight different brands.

This is what it looks like under the insert.
35354

The saw is a General International 50-260. Some of you may recall some of my earlier posts regarding the miter gauge slot being cut too deep or my fence being out of square. Jeeezzz....it never ends.

So, please look at you insert supports and report back ;)

Cheers,

Kent

[Steve Clardy]

My grizzly 1023 is basically the same saw. Mine doesn't tilt quite as much as yours is showing, but does tilt in some.
Built that way for a riving knife attachment. Cannot have any castings in the way for the riving knife to move when the blade is tilted.

[Chris Rosenberger]

All of the saws I used looked like yours. The inserts were only supported on the sides.

[John Timberlake]

My DeWalt DW746 has a full horseshoe support in the front and a horseshoe with a space missing for the blade guard. But there is actually a leveling screw that is supported about half way between the straight side and the back tip. Plenty of support and never any problems.

[Mark Singer]

If you make your own you can make it snug....drill a finger hole

[Barry O'Mahony]

My Unisaw looks the same. But my insert has adjustment screws on the edges that allow it to fit in the opening plenty snug; i.e. I have to pound it in a little with the palm of my hand. Plus, it has a pin at the top that prevents exactly the problem you have. It doesn't go anywhere under use.

This is the one I have: http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=909

It sound like your main problem is a bad insert.

[Rick Schubert]

Kent,

I also have a GI 50-260 that is about a year and a half old. My insert is just like yours (obviously), but has not been a problem for me.

What I've been disappointed in is the arbor flange on my saw has a runout of .0025 and there is nothing you can do beyond replacing the arbor which I understand is a major operation. At least the other things, ie fence, blade to miter slot, etc are adjustable. The arbor flange is not. You're stuck with it.

I called General and they said anything below .003 is acceptable with them. But I've read where a quality saw should be no more than .001 or .0015 at the most. More runout than this makes for a lot of wobble in the blade.

Have you checked arbor flange runout? Just one more thing to worry about!

Rick

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

If it really bothers you, you could most likely find a place on the under-side of the table to drill and tap for a small 10/32 screw and install a little shelf then build it up to the level you desire. I'd look for a boss or a thick rib somewhere.

[Mac McAtee]

As one other post states, the cure is a pin on the front edge of the insert. The saw is constructed normally. Put the insert in place, get under the table and make a line on the front end of the insert where it sticks through the table. find a small pin, dowel pin, split pin, piece of heavy wire, like coat hanger wire. Drill a hole so that the top edge of the hole is just a touch below where the mark you put on the end is. Put a dab of epoxy in the hole shove the pin in the hole. Cut the pin off so it is about 1/4" long.

Re-install in the table saw and it won't tip up any more, it can't, the pin won't let it.

[Chris Rosenberger]

As one other post states, the cure is a pin on the front edge of the insert. The saw is constructed normally. Put the insert in place, get under the table and make a line on the front end of the insert where it sticks through the table. find a small pin, dowel pin, split pin, piece of heavy wire, like coat hanger wire. Drill a hole so that the top edge of the hole is just a touch below where the mark you put on the end is. Put a dab of epoxy in the hole shove the pin in the hole. Cut the pin off so it is about 1/4" long.

Re-install in the table saw and it won't tip up any more, it can't, the pin won't let it.

All of my inserts have pins in the back of them. The pin is in the back so that the inset is not flipped out buy the blade.

[Howard Acheson]

It seems to be about the same as my Delta. What is different is that there should be projection that would keep the insert from lifting at the far end. That's the way the air from the blade would tend to lift it up. It can, and will, throw the insert right at you. When I make inserts, I put either a short nail or a screw in the far end that will extend under the edge of the tabletop. That will prevent the insert from lifting.

[Kent Parker]

.... Plus, it has a pin at the top that prevents exactly the problem you have. It doesn't go anywhere under use.

Barry, mine also has a pin in it at the far (outfeed) end. This prevents the insert from poping up and out towards the user (following the blade rotation). It does not have any use in the downward mode as the photo shows. The metal insert that came with the saw is the same way.

I've recently made a few out of some purpleheart scraps that are as snugg as can be and don't have the same problem. It would take a substancial amount of compression to move them due to the friction at the inserts sides. I really like wood inserts but they too can become loose and its usually when you stop thinking about the fact that they can. :eek:

I listed this issue more to make other SMC's aware of a potential problem. Movement of a table saw insert during operation can be a rare moment that we all would rather do without.

General International had a bit more room to extend the support tabs farther forward without them being in the way of their riving knife. I believe there is about 3"+ of space at the forward end.

Be safe.

Cheers,

Kent

[lou sansone]

here is a picture of a throat plate for my Rockwell RT-40. As you can see the front and back are pretty well supported. Rough dimensions of the plate are about 4" x 26 ". It is pretty stable.

Lou