Dust Collection Help.

[Tom Araya]

This is my second thread on the subject, but because
I never used a real dust collection system, these issues
that are simple for you are clueless for me. I've been
using the shop vac with 18" fan to blow out dust outside
the garage door. Woodworking is a part time hobby only.

Here is the tools I got, nothing complex. All of them
are lined up against one wall in the garage, a mini-shop.

Drill press
12" SCMS
Jet disc/belt sander combo
6" Jointer

The table saw in the middle of the garage. I plan to add sanding table with dust collector holes.
I also use the router alot, either by hand or fix in the table.

I only use one tool at a time so how much CFM
do I need to do a good job of dust collection?

I've read that people complain about the low cost
dust collectors with 30 micron bags are they leave
a trail of fine mist all over the area.

Is there any traditional dust collectors that are
better than these 30 micron system ?

The 'hot rodded' Delta dust collector for $300
looks interesting, I saw that thread recently.
Do you get alot of fine mist crud with this unit?

Would a cheap Grizzly 1.5HP cyclone system satisfy
for my situation or would you just spend a few more
bucks on the bigger 220V system ?

[Tommy Curtiss]

I bought the Habor Freight 2 hp dust collector,and for what I use it for (1 tool at a time) it works great,,I think it is 1600cfm rated, and not really exspensive.Here it is if you want to take a look,,

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45378

[Tom Araya]

I bought the Habor Freight 2 hp dust collector,and for what I use it for (1 tool at a time) it works great,,I think it is 1600cfm rated, and not really exspensive.Here it is if you want to take a look,,

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=45378

I saw that a while back, I had it on my list. For that
kind of money it's worth the gamble to try it to
see if it works well. Do you know if the impellar is
plastic or metal ? Do you notice any fine dust issues
after each use?

[Gary Swart]

The dust collection topic usually triggers alot of debate, and with the fairly sudden increase in popularity of the cyclones, it sure isn't going to lessen the debates! Personal biases mostly based on defending what we have in our own shops abounds, so that needs to be taken into consideration when evaluating advise. That said, here's some facts and some of my biased opinion. First a few facts. Avoid flex hoses as much as possible. These cut down on DC effectiveness. Manufacturers all hype there machines sucking abilities with their own statistics. Static electricity will not cause an explosion or fire in a home DC system, so forget about the grounding BS. Now some opinions. The difference in price between a 1.5 and a 2 hp DC is pretty small. The Grizzly 2 hp has been a standard in the traditional configuration for years, so if a cyclone is not in your future, then this would be my choice. (guess what DC I have?) I would install a duct system with blast gates, and my choice is 5" metal snaplock. If possible, put the DC outside of the shop area and operate it with a remote control. Get a .3 micron top bag and get a plastic bag from Woodworker Supply to replace the bottom fabric bag. Support the plastic bag with a trash can. Putting the DC outside of the shop area does 3 things. Keeps the fine dust out of the shop, saves shop floor space, and keeps the noise out of the shop. Get quick connectors to connect the flex hose(s) to the machines. A good source of supply is Oneida Air Supply. Not necessarily the cheapest, but this is all this company does, so they have very knowledgeable and helpful people and can supply you with the right materials.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Do what I did, buy a Bag DC, fill your shop and lungs with super fine dust for a while, get tired of blowing big black hunks of crap out of your nose after each session in the workshop, then, while you still have some lungs left, build a cyclone, and be DONE WITH IT.

You could, learn from my and countless other's mistakes, and just build a cyclone to start with....

My pages on the subject...

The Cyclone Saga. (http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/cyclone.htm)

Cheers!

[Jeff Horton]

While I agree with Stu, it is a personal choice.

Here is (I think) the best reading on the web about DC. You can learn more about it than you ever wanted to know.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

[Tom Araya]

Everyone's got the cyclone itch.. maybe it's time to wait
for a sale and/or more competition. Do you honestly think these $800-$1000
cyclones are worth the coin for a round hunk of sheet metal shaped like a funnel ?
Seems like marketing it taking advantage of the concept, not neccessarily the materials involved to make
one. I'm not even sure why one needs an output filter
if 99% of the dust is thrown in the bucket. A few particles of exhaust is miniscule to the amount of debris
that mother nature throws in my garage when the door is
open. I wonder if they'd consider offering the commerical cyclones
if you choose not to buy that filter, to reduce our costs? /hehe

/fun stuff

[Gary Swart]

I'm not flaming the cyclones, far from it, I think they are the DC of the future. But at the price they sell for now, a small shop owner might look at the alternative I suggested, isolate the DC out of the shop. Won't work for everyone, Stu's dungeon for instance. :)

[Steven Wilson]

Even those of us with cyclones mostly use 1 machine at a time. First you detmine the CFM needed for each machine, then you figure out ductwork that will support that CFM and calculate the resistance (SP), finally you size a collector to match. In the old days folk's were generally worried about collecting chips, and you don't need a lot of CFM for that, so 4" pipe and a bag system worked fine. Well we're more enlighted now days so chip collection (and 4" dust ports in general) doesn't cut it. To really collect the dust you need a bunch more CFM. In my case my machines are properly designed for dust collection and I have a cyclone properly sized for my machines.

Looking at your machine list, the drill press can be collected from but you generally can't, and really don't need to, run large hose. A 2 1/2" to 3" hose from the drill press table is usually sufficient and then you transition to larger hose off of the table. An SCMS is a terrible device to collect dust from. Unless you have a very large DC (i.e. 10HP) you find collecting dust from an SCMS is a pain and sometimes not real effective. One approach is to fit a hose where the bag is, put a whole underneath the table, box in the back, and then run all three into single collection point. Your jointer is small and easy to collect chips and dust from with a smaller collector. I'm going to assume you have an American style tablesaw, either cabinet or more likely contractor style, and you aren't using an overarm guard/collector. In this case the basic design of the machine procludes good dust collectrion so you really aren't served by a large DC.

So your options are;

1) run a small 1 1/2" HP dust collector with 30 micron bags and move it from machine to machine. Works great just wear a respirator to protect your lungs. Example machine - Jet DC650

2) Same as 1 but with decent cartridge filter. You'll still need to wear a respirator for some operations but it's still fairly inexpensive. Example machine - Jet DC650C or 1100C. You will still need to move the DC from machine to machine. They really don't have the umph to handle much duct work.

3) A 2hp or single stage DC with a cartridge filter. This will support a small (longest run 20') run of duct work 5" metal or 6" PVC. Example machine - Jet 1200C

4) A 2hp or larger cyclone with a 14" impellor. Can support 20' or longer runs, larger main duct (7", 8", 10") and will deliver 800CFM to every machine. Makes sense if your machines are designed with dust collection and not chip collection in mind. Example Oneida 2hp commercial.

Well number 4 is probably more costly than your machines are, option 3 would probably be a good way to go if you can afford it. If you go with option 3 you should probably consider improving the collection from your table saw. Option 2 will work well for you and is fairly inexpensive. Option 1 will collect chips, you will have to wear a respirator most of the time you're in the shop. Also don't forget to have a decent vacum to hook up to sanders, circular saws, routers, biscuit jointers and such. I use to have a fein mini-turbo which worked well but wasn't variable speed (really need this for sanders). I've since upgraded to Festool and the CT22 vac is fantastic for collecting dust/chips from tools - so are their sanders.

[Cameron Reddy]

I also encourage you to read up on the issues at the Bill Pentz web site referenced above.

FWIW, I own both the recently "best rated" Delta 50-760 single stage as well as a ClearVue cyclone with Wynn filters. The former is a nice little DC, the latter is a monster sucking machine with HEPA grade filters.

[David Eisenhauer]

Yes. Cyclones without filters are readily available. Lots of shops are able to direct the exhaust outside rather than back into the shop. This does use up "heated" air in the winter time though, and will cause an increase in your shop energy bill if the shop is climate controlled. I haven't looked lately, but I think bare cyclones are available for the "doityourselfer" and that is another direction to go. Best of luck.

[Tom Araya]

Thank for the tips. :)