My law suit against SMC

[Larry Cooke]

All right, maybe I couldn't win in a suit against this forum. I think I do have good grounds for one though - the LOML is going to sue me for divorce after I buy some of the tools I want now thanks to everyone here...

Okay, it's a cheesy way to introduce myself but I've been lurking here for quite some time and like many others I see that there are lots of friendly folks here - not to mention the wealth of information. So, I thought I'd formally introduce myself. (Sorry, no pictures - they're way to scary!)

I'm what some call a jack of all trades and master of none. To make my long story short, I'm familiar with tools of all kinds and have always had a soft spot for working with wood. So, I'm looking into building a hobby wood working shop. I'm wanting to build a new kitchen and then move on to some furniture like coffee tables, entertainment systems, bed frames/headboards, and computer desks. After that I figure I'll make my millions selling it commercially. :)

This of course leads me to a couple of questions, there's always questions aren't there?

What magazines do you guys/gals subscribe to? I'm on the hunt for tips and tricks of course along with tool reviews (yea, I know, the reviews need to be taken with a grain of salt but they do help some.) Oh, and plans or ideas might be useful too.

My other question is regarding tools. I've been reading and drooling over everyone's shop and tools here but I am coming to the realization that I can't afford all of them. :(

I'm looking at buying a Cabinet TS, Jointer, Planer, (maybe a BS), and most importantly a cyclone DC system. I've been looking in the local paper for used tools but in the last few months that I've been looking I haven't found any decent tools. So, I'm getting a serious itch to buy something and have been looking at these tools:

Grizzly:

G1023SLW 10" TS - adding 7 ft. rails and appropriate mobile bases.
G0490 8" Jointer.
G0453 15" Planer.
G0513X 17" BS - (If budget allows...)

Oneida:
Super Dust Gorilla Cyclone.

Am I on the right track or should I hold out for something else? I guess I should mention that my budget is around 5k and I welcome any suggestions.

Thanks everyone!

Larry

[Chris Barton]

There was this businessman that had a new BMW and was crusing the intersatae at 90 mph when he noticed a trooper gaining on him in the rearview mirror. He punched the gas and left the trooper behind only to realize he was making a terrible mistake. So, he pulled over to the side of the road and waited for the trooper to catch up. When the trooper came to his window he said, "look, this is the end of my shift and if you can tell me a reason that I have never heard why you were going so fast I will let you go." The businessman thought for a moment and said, "well last week my wife ran off with a cop and I thought you were him trying to bring her back." The trooper then turned to go back to his car and said "have a nice weekend..."

[Chris Barton]

Fine Wood Working, Workbench, Wood, etc...

[Joseph N. Myers]

Fine WoodWorking, Poplar Woodworking, Shop Notes and Shop Smith.

And welcome to SMC.

Regards, Joe

[Larry Klaaren]

I think maybe Larry is looking for a priority list on tools.

I'd agree with table saw first. I'm not experienced enough to be a good source after that, but my own preference would be bandsaw and a router and router table. I have really used my drill press a lot. Of course that follows what I like to do. My second purchase was a scroll saw.

If you want to do any tenoning, you could use either a router or a drill press. I personally would go there before buying both a jointer and planer.

I made these comments to stir the pot. This could be a nice discussion.

Don't see any sanding tools on your list. They make life easier.

Larry

[Rich Tesoroni]

Workbench wasn't on your list unless you plan to build.

Beware of Amazon if you want to keep a low profile. You buy five things and they ship them in five huge boxes that will arrive on different days.

Per dollar, it's easiest to sneak in Lie Nielsen planes.

Rich

[Jason Tuinstra]

Larry, sounds like you have a pretty good idea for the tools you need and what they'll cost. I originally bought a contractor's saw, but upgraded to a cabinet saw when I moved to CA. I don't have any regrets doing it this way. When I first started woodworking, I didn't know how much I would enjoy it and how far I would want to go in it. As I have grown, so have my tools and the quality thereof. I've even started to enjoy the ones without those funny black tails :p ;)

Regarding magazines I really enjoy FWW and continue to subscribe to it. I used to get Woodsmith, and would still recommend it, but I wasn't enjoying it as much as I used to. But they have some great tips and you learn a ton from them as to how to do woodworking step by step. I was just getting to the point where I was consistently not liking what they were producing. But that's obviously a personal preference. You might want to look at Woodcraft Mag. and Popular Woodworking as well. See which one best fits your style and go for it. I always look forward to my wood magazines coming in the mail!

Have fun buying all your tools - I include magazines in this.

P.S. 5K? Your at the beginning of something that never ends... hehehehhe... Better contact the legal team now. I remember when I bought my second sander and hearing from LOML, "Ah, don't you already have a sander?"

[Jay Knepper]

As for magazines, your needs and interests will evolve with time. When I started out I subscribed to everything. Now it's down to Fine Woodorking, Popular Woodworking, and Woodwork. I also really liked Pop Woodworking's spin off with no ads (I'm forgetting its name), but that one appears to have fallen by the wayside.

Regarding the tool choices, they should be fine. I would put a bandsaw high on the list. It was a late arrival to my shop, but has proven to be a wonderful and most useful addition. I would add a (few) router(s) as well, and a home-made router table and workbench.

Hand tools and a sharpening system are essential. You will certainly need a good set of chisels, a block plane, and a shoulder plane.

A Kreg jig is great for building shop cabinets, etc.

[John Keane]

Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.

[John Keane]

Larry, most of us bought what we could afford at the time. As our skills matured and we became more knowledgeable about tools and who made them we upgraded our equipment. Certainly Grizzly has a lot of supporters. My only advice would be to buy the best tool that you can afford if even if it requires a little stretch. It will be cheaper in the long run. Buy quality. Better to wait on the right tool than have to buy it twice. Welcome to the "Creek". One of these days I am going to visit Tucson.

[Dino Makropoulos]

There was this businessman that had a new BMW and was crusing the intersatae at 90 mph when he noticed a trooper gaining on him in the rearview mirror. He punched the gas and left the trooper behind only to realize he was making a terrible mistake. So, he pulled over to the side of the road and waited for the trooper to catch up. When the trooper came to his window he said, "look, this is the end of my shift and if you can tell me a reason that I have never heard why you were going so fast I will let you go." The businessman thought for a moment and said, "well last week my wife ran off with a cop and I thought you were him trying to bring her back." The trooper then turned to go back to his car and said "have a nice weekend..."

That was good.
I have to tell this joke to my wife now.:D :D

EDIT for the news
I just told the joke to my wife.
She said: This is so funny. This is something that you would do.

[Norman Hitt]

Welcome to "THE CREEK", Larry. IMHO I think you're on the right track as to tool items. The TS is the central figure in "Most" Shops, although some prefer a BS first, but that could/would depend a whole lot on what type of woodworking they're into. My thoughts are that unless you are going to do a lot of "Resawing" from the very beginning, the BS (bandsaw) can come later, and if you want to do curved work in the meantime, you can do this with a good handheld jigsaw, (which is Always handy to have around anyhow), until your budget can justify a BS. I also think that a jointer and planer should be among the first items, so you can get used to making all your raw material straight, flat, and square/parallel, right from the strart, because it makes the rest of the operations and "Fit" so much better and easier. DC, goes without saying, if you want to protect your health, AND keep things clean.

I think that you will want to add a router, router table and work bench early on, but the work bench and router table, you should just build yourself. I also think that a drill press (that will run at low rpm's (350 or less, for running Forstner bits and maybe medalion cutters), should be on your list before the BS. There are all kinds/prices of tools out there, and although I don't own any of the ones you have listed, I think they are good tools and a lot of bang for the buck, and should do anything you would require of them.

Obviously, you should watch for sales, (usually alerted to by someone on the forum here) to add all the necessary hand tools and you might just as well get started RIGHT NOW buying a few GOOD Quality CLAMPS and just keep doing this till you finally get enou................errrrrr.......:rolleyes: (forget that, 'cause you can NEVER have TOO MANY Clamps).:D

Magazines, I currently get Wood, American Woodworker (which I really like), Shopnotes, Woodsmith, and Workbench. I felt FWW just got too expensive for my current budget and didn't really care for Woodworkers Journal anymore.

Keep us posted on your tool acquisition and your shop building progress, and have some fun making sawdust.:D Everyone here will be most helpful I'm sure, 'cause we ALL just Love to help each other spend their MONEY>;)

[Charlie Plesums]

Welcome

Your list of machines looks good, but don't forget to allow a budget for hand tools, chisels, clamps, drill, router, router bits, etc.

Wood magazine is pretty good if you really are a beginner... lots of smaller projects cookbook style, but pretty safe. My wife loves the step-by-step approach, but it drives me nuts having to search for the "big picture." Fine Woodworking is the bible on technique, but not simple projects, and not cookbook style (I like it better, but my wife doesn't).

I suggest that you start with some smaller projects rather than the kitchen... night stands, coffee table, etc., until the equipment and techniques (glue ups, squaring, etc.) become natural. Doing 20 or so cabinets for a kitchen can get pretty boring if you have to struggle with steps that become simple after you have a little experience (DAMHIKT)

[Rob Blaustein]

I also really liked Pop Woodworking's spin off with no ads (I'm forgetting its name), but that one appears to have fallen by the wayside.

I too like Pop ww'ing and also really like their spinoff--it's called Woodworking Magazine and as far as I know it is still around. It just doesn't come out all that often--I think 4 issues a year. The website is woodworking-magazine.com. You get the sense that they really enjoy ww'ing but also really enjoy teaching. As a newcomer to this hobby, I've learned a lot from them.

[Don Baer]

Lets just jump to the final outcome. Skip all of those flat lander tools and jump right in to the inevidentual end. :D Jump right in and get a good lathe, bandsaw,a sharpening station and some good turning tools and forget all of that other stuff. It will eventually become nothing more then a place to store your turnings and turning tools..:)

Oh and don't forget a chainsaw....

[Stephen Dixon]

Hey, I finally found a question I know something about. All I do is collect tools and read magazines.

For a beginning woodworker I would recommend Wood Magazine, Popular Woodworking, and Woodworkers Journal. At one time I would have recommended Woodsmith and Shopnotes, they had a great way of introducing a specific technique, then showing a few projects using the technique, one issue might be mortice and tenon, another might have been hand cut dovetails, or biscuits, or pocket screws. Then they would take you through several projects using that specific technique, for a beginner it was great, but alas, the newer issues don't seem to have the same instructional value. It might be worth while to pick up some back issues of Woodsmith. I'm sure you can find them on that large internet auction site.

Steve

[tod evans]

larry, i do fine woodworking and woodshop news for publications, but honestly you`ll do very well on this sight. there`s a wealth of knowledge here on a wide variety of subjects, lots of opinions and a few attitudes:rolleyes: . before you jump and buy tools spend a few days or weeks reading and asking questions here, you just might find yourself taking a slightly different approach than cutting a check to one company for an "insta-shop" .02 tod

[Michael Gibbons]

Hi Larry, I receive Fine Woodworking and Wood at home but I'm going to let Wood lapse when the subscription expires. I also like Pop Wood and Woodworking Magazine. As far as tools go, go shopping and compare side by side in features and price. It took me 6 years to get the big six machines; cabinet saw, jointer, planer, drill press, band saw and lathe, so don't rush it. I would get the cabinet saw first then whatever you want after that. Then spend $500 on clamps. Tormek grinder, router table would also be useful. Make sure your machines and tools are set up and tuned properly.

[Jesse Cloud]

Hey Larry,
Welcome to the gang. Here's my two cents worth....

First of all, get the wife to buy into the tools with the following logic: If you want me to make xx, then I will need these new tools, and we will still save a lot of money. Never, ever do a project for the house without buying a new tool - it makes them suspicious.

The order of which tool to buy first depends a lot on what you are doing. If a kitchen remodel is in the cards, and you plan to make your own cabinets, then a good table saw, a router table and appropriate bits, and a drill press are must-haves. A jointer and a planer would sure be helpful.

Be sure to have some $ left for lots of clamps!

Only tool you suggested that I might rethink is a cabinet saw. I upgraded to one and I'm glad I did, but I worked for fifteen years on a contractor saw and did just fine.

By the way, if www.craigslist.org (http://www.craigslist.org) has a presence near you, there can be some good deals on used tools. Also see the 'woodworkers classifieds' thread here and on other boards.

Happy woodworking,
Jess

[Pete Harbin]

Welcome to the Creek Larry!

That looks like a good list of tools you have there! We will, of course, need pictoral evidence of the purchases. :D

I like Popular Woodworking (and the spin-off Woodworking Magazine) the most. As someone just really getting into the use of hand tools on a regular basis, I think they offer a nice mix of power and neader techniques. I think it's just a good all-around magazine. I do also get Wood, Woodsmith, Woodworkers Journal, Woodcraft, and American Woodworker. Fortunately most of the subscriptions are gifts! :p

Pete

[Mike Zozakiewicz]

Welcome Larry! This is a great resource on all topics wood. Great people with a unbelievable wealth of knowledge.

You basic tool list looks good, but as mentioned by others: router, clamps, measuring tools, good lighting, and random orbital sander - are things you will need, IMHO. If you are doing cabinets, might want to consider a good dado blade set as well (stay away from the wobble type).

I read Wood, FWW and I use the libraries' back issues of Shopnotes and Woodsmith for techniques I might be working on.

Again, good to have you aboard, and don't forget about pictures!

Mike

[Hank Keller]

Larry-
Just a heads up on the Grizzly 1023SLW - I just ordered that exact one last week and it's on a 6 - 8 week (or more) backorder. They wont give me a exact date. I even asked if they would send me the 1023S (since it's in stock) and ship the router table extension separetly but they wont do that.
Hank

[Mark Stutz]

Welcome to the Creek,Larry. You've already got a lot of good advice, and I doubt I can add to the tool selection choices.
As far as LOYL is concerned, a few projects just for her will help. Just remind her that the mistress she knows about:D is better thah the one she doesn't know!:eek: ;)

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

You can get it on EEEEEEEEEEEE-BBBBAAAAAAAAYYYYY

http://business.search.ebay.com/grizzly_Business-Industrial_W0QQfkrZ1QQfromZR8QQsacatZ12576

[Jerry Olexa]

There was this businessman that had a new BMW and was crusing the intersatae at 90 mph when he noticed a trooper gaining on him in the rearview mirror. He punched the gas and left the trooper behind only to realize he was making a terrible mistake. So, he pulled over to the side of the road and waited for the trooper to catch up. When the trooper came to his window he said, "look, this is the end of my shift and if you can tell me a reason that I have never heard why you were going so fast I will let you go." The businessman thought for a moment and said, "well last week my wife ran off with a cop and I thought you were him trying to bring her back." The trooper then turned to go back to his car and said "have a nice weekend..."

Good story

[Kevin Herber]

Larry, when I started a number of years ago I got LOML to sign off on a full garage. I went out and dropped a bunch of money After a while I realized that I could have done some things differently.

My advice is to pick a specific project, do the plans, map out the processes on paper and then determine which tools will be required. Buy just those. You may find out a 13" benchtop planer will serve you better than a big 15"r. The same for the band saw and jointer. Maybe just a tablesaw and a router will suffice for that first project.

The only thing I would advise that you DO overbuy on is the table saw. I don't think you can over do it on that. If you don't buy all the biggest and heaviest of everything at once you can get the absolute best at each purchase.

As you proceed through projects get what you need. That way you end up with a shop full of practical sized tools that get fully used. It's very easy to overkill with this stuff.

Magazines - Spend a few evenings a month at the bookstore with a stack of all of them and a good latte'. Time will tell you which is best for you. All mentioned above are good ones. If I could afford it I'd subscribe to all of them.

Good luck - Kevin

[Phil Maddox]

Welcome Larry!

No affilitation but you can get a REAL Unisaw with the original 50" Biesemeyer fence for 1$ more than the Grizzly. Call Timberline tools and speak to Jeff.

Good luck!

[Dennis Peacock]

Larry....Welcome to SMC....!!!!!

Let's watch those thread titles. If you are where I am? You'd be real gun-shy about threads that have such a title. :rolleyes: :p :eek:

Sounds like you have plenty of advice to this point, so I won't add any more confusion to the mass advice you have.

Once again, welcome to SMC and enjoy your time while hanging out with some of the best folks on the net. :D

[Kevin Herber]

Larry, when I started a number of years ago I got LOML to sign off on a full garage. I went out and dropped a bunch of money After a while I realized that I could have done some things differently.

My advice is to pick a specific project, do the plans, map out the processes on paper and then determine which tools will be required. Buy just those. You may find out a 13" benchtop planer will serve you better than a big 15"r. The same for the band saw and jointer. Maybe just a tablesaw and a router will suffice for that first project.

The only thing I would advise that you DO overbuy on is the table saw. I don't think you can over do it on that. If you don't buy all the biggest and heaviest of everything at once you can get the absolute best at each purchase.

As you proceed through projects get what you need. That way you end up with a shop full of practical sized tools that get fully used. It's very easy to overkill with this stuff.

Magazines - Spend a few evenings a month at the bookstore with a stack of all of them and a good latte'. Time will tell you which is best for you. All mentioned above are good ones. If I could afford it I'd subscribe to all of them.

Good luck - Kevin


Dang!!! I was so busy dispensing advice I forgot to welcome you to the Creek. Sorry bout that. Welcome aboard!!!!

[Larry Cooke]

Chris Barton: Nice joke and thanks for the suggestions.

Joseph Myers: Thank you too for the suggestions.

Larry Klaaren: I actually have two router, though they're craftsman so... My thoughts about a band is that I'm not sure I'll be doing resawing soon and for my initial project of kitchen cabinets I'm not sure I'd really need it for that. But it is high on my list. I also have a drill press so I'm set there I think. Thanks!

Rich Tesoroni: I do plan to build my work bench. Initially a simple one but as I get better and know exactly what I want then it will be a more deluxe version. I'm not a big fan of Amazon, but do look there on occasion. Thanks!

Jason Tuinstra: Don't tell the LOML about this being just the beginning! She's already apprehensive about this suggestion of mine. :)

Jay Knepper: I'm fighting to keep the BS in my first purchase, but I don't want to settle for less on my main tools. I do have a decent set of chisels, but will look into the sharpening end soon. I know I'll dull them quickly. Thanks!

John Keane: I'm trying to stay as near the top without going to far. Phil Maddox has given me a serious option to consider for the TS. So it looks like my list is about to make a change now... Thanks!

Norman Hitt: I agree with you on the BS, would like to have one but I'm not sure I really _need_ it at this time. Will get one for sure though. Will be building my router table and work bench myself and I do have a drill press so I'm sort of covered there. Thanks!

Charlie Plesums: I do have a limited selection of hand tools but I'm sure I'm going to be adding more very quickly. I have actually made some basic furniture already, I've made some tables and an entertainment center, granted kitchen cabinets will be a first for me but I'm justifying the tools by promising to build them so... I know, won't really save any money but the "I made those factor" is what I'm really after :) Thanks!

Rob Blaustien: I'll be sure to give Popular WW a subscription. Thanks!

Don Baer: I'd ask you how to turn a kitchen cabinet on a lathe but what scares me is you or someone else here will show me how to do it. :eek:

Stephen Dixon: I will take you advise and get them. Sounds just like the ticket for my needs. Thanks!

Tod Evans: I'm not one to say I know it all, and the more I'm reading things in all of these replies I now know I'm going to have to take a second look at my tools. Phil Maddox made an excellent suggestion. Though I've been reading here for about three months now and was honestly afraid to ask what is the best table saw, I've seen to many of these kinds of questions but I guess I'm going to do some more seeking before I pull any triggers. Thanks!

Michael Gibbons: I've been shopping but to be honest it looks like I've not dug deep enough, so yes I will take some more time before pulling the trigger. I don't need these tomorrow and I'd rather not get into a situation of "darn if I only knew that." Thanks!

Jesse Cloud: Plan A is already in effect, kitchen cabinets. :) I love your advise - "never do a project without buying a new tool - it make them suspicious." I will remember this one, thanks! :)

Pete Harbin: I plan on doing some before and after shots of the shop so evidence will be provided. :) Thanks for the magazine suggestions too!

Mike Zozakiewicz: Guess I should have listed my current tool inventory, I'm going to that in my next message. Thanks!

Hank Keller: I'm not in too much of a rush though I'm not sure I want to wait 6-8 weeks for my new toy...errr..tool. Right now I'm going to back up a little and do some more research. There was another suggestion that warrants serious consideration. Thanks for the heads up!

Mark Stutz: I think I'm going to avoid that one! She's already being pretty generous letting me get some of these tools - don't want to rock the boat. :)

Kevin Herber: Great advise, I know that I'm doing kitchen cabinets first so I know I'll need a TS, a planer and jointer would be great for the doors so I'm really thinking it would be good to have something for these two. I'm going to evaluate my list for sure. Thanks!

Phil Maddox: Thank you very much for the suggestion. I will give them a call and see what happens.

Again, thank you everyone and expect some more questions from me.

Larry

[Larry Cooke]

Let's watch those thread titles. If you are where I am? You'd be real gun-shy about threads that have such a title. :rolleyes: :p :eek:
Sorry Dennis, didn't mean to raise any blood pressure, my sick sense of humor gets a liitle ahead of me sometimes.

Thanks for the Welcome and rest assured I won't do anymore "shock" titles.

Larry

[Larry Cooke]

Dang!!! I was so busy dispensing advice I forgot to welcome you to the Creek. Sorry bout that. Welcome aboard!!!! I actually forgot to say thanks to everyone that did welcome me. :o

Thank you Keven and everyone else too.

Larry

[Charlie Plesums]

...I do plan to build my work bench. Initially a simple one but as I get better and know exactly what I want then it will be a more deluxe version. ...
After over 50 years, I finally built my first workbench, and some would just call it a sturdy table on wheels. When everything was done with elbow grease, the bench was critical. With power tools, I found a half sheet of plywood on saw horses worked fine for MANY years. I know that not everyone agrees with me, but look at my web site - nothing there had a workbench!


...yes I will take some more time before pulling the trigger. I don't need these tomorrow and I'd rather not get into a situation of "darn if I only knew that."...
30 years ago I bought a radial arm saw so I could build the cabinets for the kitchen (sound familiar?). A few years ago I graduated to a table saw. Last year I got a European combination machine (talk about sticker shock). But my wife's comment as she learned to use it, "you should have gotten that 30 years ago." That comment may be true, and it is well beyond your $5K budget:rolleyes:, but "darn, if I only knew that."

[Larry Cooke]

When everything was done with elbow grease, the bench was critical. With power tools, I found a half sheet of plywood on saw horses worked fine for MANY years. I know that not everyone agrees with me, but look at my web site - nothing there had a workbench!First off, those are all great looking pieces of furniture on your site. The grandson is probably the best though! ;)

I agree with what you're saying, I'm not going to go the neandrathal route so a killer work bench isn't really necessary. But for the learning experience it may. I was thinking about building a small torsion box table (roughly the size of a work bench 3'x6') and then use some 4x4's for the legs and support. Simple but effective for assembling. Later, if I need to, go with maple and whatnot to make a true wood working bench.


30 years ago I bought a radial arm saw so I could build the cabinets for the kitchen (sound familiar?).Wow, talk about familiar, I bought a craftsman 10" radial arm saw twenty years ago (still have it) for the exact same purpose. Well one thing lead to another and I never did the kitchen with it. I just couldn't get precise enough cuts from it. It's great for construction work though, I just built two porches here and they're awsome if I say so myself. :)

I window shopped some combination machines. Would love to get a combo jointer/planer but you're right, they're too expensive for my budget.

Larry

[Steve Clardy]

Welcome Larry!!!
About the only thing I can add is, set up a separate fund for clamps!!

[Frank Pellow]

...
Never, ever do a project for the house without buying a new tool - it makes them suspicious.
...
Jess
Jess, that is great advice. In fact of all the great advice that I have read in this thread, that is the best. :D

[Dennis Peacock]

Sorry Dennis, didn't mean to raise any blood pressure, my sick sense of humor gets a liitle ahead of me sometimes.

Thanks for the Welcome and rest assured I won't do anymore "shock" titles.

Larry

ROFL!!!!!! Larry....you're just fine. It's just that over time, you do run into things that can lead to legal situations....so when I saw your thread title, it did exactly what you wanted it to do....."grab my attention..and QUICKLY"!:D

No problem Larry....once I read your post, I calmed back down and relaxed over a nice glass of Tea. ;)