Why bevels should not be too flat...

[David Rose]

Here is what you get with a gentle push into hardwood. :eek: :D Yeah, ONE push.

[Michael Ballent]

OK, it's late and I'm slow :D What is it... is that a gouge for a lathe? What are those little "teeth" at the end?

[David Rose]

for hand use. I have used it for about 30 years for inletting the ends of rounded parts into gun stocks. With the outside bevel it is a bugger to cut the inside curves without bevelling them also. So... Me thinks... :( :o should know better than think. I figured this would be an easy chance to use the new MK II <hidden gloat :D > as it would be easy to recut if it failed. I wasn't expecting an instant failure! The 'teeth' weren't there before I used it. :rolleyes:

I found a bent neck gouge from Lee Valley that I think will do the job well. And it will be easy to set the angle back to about 30 degrees on the old one.

David

[tod evans]

david, try an incannel gouge....02 tod

[John D Watson]

Looks like you worked it a little thin there David. I've done the same thing a few times with smaller guauges and it's always been a bit of a shock when it dies. Disappointing to say the least. :confused: Keep on honing.

[John Timberlake]

Most of my carving tools are Pfeil Swiss tools. I just use the grind that come on them because I usually use walnut, cherry, mahogany or basswood. If I ever switch to hard maple or oak (not likely), I would need to regrind to a steeper angle. Some the tools have been in intermittent use for 30 years with only honing on leather. Wouldn't want to start regrinding any time soon.

[David Rose]

Since it is an old Buck tool, I figured on cutting it off and regrinding the bevel on the inside. That would make it an "incannel gouge", which I had never heard of... Then I got to thinking how tough it might be to keep that inside sharp and chickened out. Also, a 'bit' of metal to remove evenly with a small hand grinder just to get close to the sharpening point.

I have the bent neck ordered, well, REordered as I got in a 1/2" which is 1/2" radius instead of diameter. Duh! That is probably the way gouges are measured, at any rate, I am sure that Lee Valley will exchange. With an outside bevel, it will be easier to sharpen and hone.

Thanks Tod, for another option.

David


david, try an incannel gouge....02 tod

[tod evans]

david, here`s a tip for sharpening incannels; using a dowl of appropriate radius charge the dowel with jewelers rouge and spin with a low speed drill or in the lathe. the rouge will give you a finly polished edge...02 tod

[Jerry Crawford]

David, FYI, the sweep (curve) of carving gouges are based on the golden rectangle in which a perfect spiral is created. Each gouge is a numbered segment of that spiral. With a littel research on the topic you can come up with some pretty interesting math and information.

This association with the Golden Mean does not apply to Veiners (which are "U" shaped gouges) or Parting tools (which are "V" shaped in a couple of degrees)

[David Rose]

Good tip, Tod! Thanks!


david, here`s a tip for sharpening incannels; using a dowl of appropriate radius charge the dowel with jewelers rouge and spin with a low speed drill or in the lathe. the rouge will give you a finly polished edge...02 tod

[tod evans]

Good tip, Tod! Thanks!

you`re welcome.

[David Rose]

Jeez Jerry! I thought all I wanted to do was order a chisel. :eek: :p Now I have to break out the calculus books to find the curve! :)

Seriously, that is interesting. When I get some time... :rolleyes:

David


David, FYI, the sweep (curve) of carving gouges are based on the golden rectangle in which a perfect spiral is created. Each gouge is a numbered segment of that spiral. With a littel research on the topic you can come up with some pretty interesting math and information.

This association with the Golden Mean does not apply to Veiners (which are "U" shaped gouges) or Parting tools (which are "V" shaped in a couple of degrees)

[Terry Hatfield]

David who?????:D

t

[David Rose]

Who wants to know? :mad: :eek: I just don't like IDin' myself to any ole one, ya know!

OH! It's 't'! Hi t. ;) Any new planes lately? Has 'c' agreed to my low pitance of an offer on that router plane? With all cutters of course... :p

David


David who?????:D

t

[Jerry Crawford]

....and to further confuse the inquiring mind, here is about the best explanation of the numbers on chisels I've ever read. From an auction site:

The sweep* and the width are stamped on the blade, as well as the gouge number* on the octagonal hornbeam handle. The chisel has a ferule and a large shoulder, to avoid handle cracks at the tang. The chisels with a sweep* over #8 and a width over 14mm have an impact ferule on the end of their handle, to absorb large blows from a mallet when penetrating carving material. The Solingen steel blade is hardened to Rockwell 61, compared to Rockwell 59 for English and Swiss blades. This harder steel, makes it stay sharp longer, especially when you carve harder woods such as oak. The professional chisels are between 9 to 11 inches long.

*The “gouge number” is the international way to classify carving chisels and is always stamped on the handle. For example, in number 3208-04, the “32” means the gouge is in the intermediate series, “31” in professional, “53” in micro carving. Then comes the “08”, which stands for sweep* #8 in other words, the curve of the cutting edge and blade. It is commonly referred to as the “gouge number”. Finally, the “04” is for a width of 4 mm (millimetre) and can range from 1mm to 40mm. However, in the micro carving series, the width is indicated as “05” for 0.5mm, “10” for 1mm, “15” for 1.5mm and “20” for 2mm.

*The “sweeps” are classified as follows; #1 is flat, #2 is flat but “skew”, which means that the cutting edge is grinded to an angle so that it can reach tight corners. The #3 to #11 are concave, #3 being merely flat, and #11 being very deep. The #12 to #20 are “bent gouges” with a sweep from #3 to #11. The #21 to #32 are “spoon gouges” with a sweep from #1 to #11. The #33 to #38 are “back bent gouges” with a convex sweep from #3 to #8. The #39, #40 and #43 are “V” chisels, the cutting edge being shaped in a “V” form, at an angle of 75 degrees and the width range from 2mm to 30mm. The #39 is “straight”, #40 is “bent” and # 43 is “spoon”. The #41,#42 and #44 are also “V” shaped, with the same range of width, but at an angle of 60 degrees. The #41 is “straight”, #42 is “bent” and #44 is “spoon”. The #45 and 46 are “V” shaped at an angle of 100 degrees also with a width ranging from 2mm to 30mm. The #45 is “straight” and # 46 is “bent”. The #47 is a “grooving gouge”, available in range from 1mm to 10mm, it has a sweep #11 with higher sides.

[David Rose]

Jerry, one trip to the sharpener with me on the end of the handle and many of those 'stamped numbers' would mean much less. :eek: :(

Thank for the info. :)

David

[David Rose]

Oh, and we ended up calling LV today. I explained the situation and told them I was in error on the shape. In typical Lee Valley style, they *insisted* that I wait to return this tool until I get the new one... and the pre-paid return shipping label! I said, "no way!". This was my fault. They refused my offer! And that is why (actually only one reason) I will order everything that I can from them. Well, I have been for some time. But they treated my first order (with problems) just as well as the last. Quite a company. :)

David