Patternmaker's Vise

[Rob Will]

Do you own a patternmaker's vise and what kind is it?

Have you ever seen two patternmaker's vises mounted on the long side of a workbench?

Is an Emmert the best way to go?

Do any of the current imports have features that the Emmert vise does not? (various models)

Thanks,
Rob

[Bill Simmeth]

I attended an auction of a closed pattern shop a couple of years ago up in Allentown, PA. They had a series of benches with Emmerts at each end of the front side. I have an Oliver #1 vise and am itching to get it repainted and mounted.

[Chuck Nickerson]

I have two patternmaker style vises on the same bench, but on opposite sides. One is a Chinese knock-off, the other is a Tucker from Lee Valley. Why two? I'm better at starting projects than finishing them. Why these two? The two together cost less than Emmerts fetch here in Los Angeles.

[tod evans]

rob, my bench has two tai/chi patternmakers vices see this thread;
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=27093&highlight=patternmakers

an emmert is nice but pretty darn expensive, especially a pair, and i`m one of the folks who can tear up a crowbar in a sandbox so i opted for something replacable......02 tod

[Jeff Singleton]

I have 3 Emmerts vises. I have my Grandfathers from 1941 and I also have his partners from 1941. Grandfathers was the big one and his partner Dave had the smaller version. In 1941 they cost $41.00 for the big one and $40. for the smaller one, at least that is what the manual says that came with the vise. Both work great and get used a lot. I also have a Emmerts Turtle back from 1891 that is in good shape. I haven't mounted it yet but I will someday. Being a patternmaker I need one a lot. These vises need a solid bench with room underneath for the arm. The big three were Emmerts, Oliver and Kindt-Collins. They were about the same. The Kindt-Collins is actually the old Oliver. K-C bought it from Oliver.

Jeff Singleton:D
Singleton's Woodworking & Pattern Works

[Dev Emch]

I have 3 Emmerts vises. I have my Grandfathers from 1941 and I also have his partners from 1941. Grandfathers was the big one and his partner Dave had the smaller version. In 1941 they cost $41.00 for the big one and $40. for the smaller one, at least that is what the manual says that came with the vise. Both work great and get used a lot. I also have a Emmerts Turtle back from 1891 that is in good shape. I haven't mounted it yet but I will someday. Being a patternmaker I need one a lot. These vises need a solid bench with room underneath for the arm. The big three were Emmerts, Oliver and Kindt-Collins. They were about the same. The Kindt-Collins is actually the old Oliver. K-C bought it from Oliver.

Jeff Singleton:D
Singleton's Woodworking & Pattern Works

There were actually at least two oliver patternmaker vises. The oliver #1 has the same tilt system or at least one similar to that found on the tucker. In essence, two protuding stem shafts that can adjust depth to tilt the jaw left or right.

The later oliver was based on the same cam system used by the later emmert K1 type vise. There are some minor differences between the two however. MINOR! Later on, kindt collins purchased this vise and made it as the kindt collins vise for many many years. All they did was remove OLIVER and add KINDT-COLLINS to the front face casting pattern.

This later oliver/Kindt Collins vise was awsome as was most of the stuff made by Kindt Collins during its older management. Kindt Collins used to make the finest pattern shop sanders out there.

The major difference with the OLIVER/KINDT COLLINS vise was that the beam is larger as is the diameter of the main lead screw. As I recall, the emmert has a 1 inch leadscrew and the Oliver/Kindt Collins has a 1.25 inch leadscrew. It may be 1 1/8 but I recall thinking it was 1 1/4 inch. But they used DUAL PITCH #4 acme threads whereas the emmert used a single pitch #4 acme thread. This means the jaws move twice as much for the same turn of the handle. Nice considering the fact that NO patternmaker vise was ever made with a split half nut or quick release feature.

Emmert made several versions of vises including several versions of the K1. Early K1s has a tendency to crack along the outer portion of the face. So Emmert kept adding new ribbing configurations on the face. There are about 6 different versions or types of emmert K1. I was lucky to snag one of the last K1 made (a type 6-B) before these became so darn popular. Today, you can make more money buying and selling emmerts than IBM stock.

A few years ago, Kindt Collins sold its entire pattern vise to Bill Kerfoot. Parts, engineering drawings, patterns, etc. He in turn has tweaked the design a hair and removed the Kindt Collins name and affixed his own name.... HOPEWELL. I have seen photos of the HOPEWELL and it looks mighty fine! Right now, this is the only game in town in terms of getting a super solid, honest of goodness patternmaker vise with all its I's dotted and T's crossed. I have seen a number of clones from overseas and what not and quite frankly am rather weary of them. They also tend to be smaller and more reminiscent of I believe, the emmert K2. The real deal is 18 inches wide. Measure it before you buy!

Good Luck...

[Dan Racette]

Are these Hopewell vise's that you speak of in current production? If so, where would one locate these?

d


There were actually at least two oliver patternmaker vises. The oliver #1 has the same tilt system or at least one similar to that found on the tucker. In essence, two protuding stem shafts that can adjust depth to tilt the jaw left or right.

The later oliver was based on the same cam system used by the later emmert K1 type vise. There are some minor differences between the two however. MINOR! Later on, kindt collins purchased this vise and made it as the kindt collins vise for many many years. All they did was remove OLIVER and add KINDT-COLLINS to the front face casting pattern.

This later oliver/Kindt Collins vise was awsome as was most of the stuff made by Kindt Collins during its older management. Kindt Collins used to make the finest pattern shop sanders out there.

The major difference with the OLIVER/KINDT COLLINS vise was that the beam is larger as is the diameter of the main lead screw. As I recall, the emmert has a 1 inch leadscrew and the Oliver/Kindt Collins has a 1.25 inch leadscrew. It may be 1 1/8 but I recall thinking it was 1 1/4 inch. But they used DUAL PITCH #4 acme threads whereas the emmert used a single pitch #4 acme thread. This means the jaws move twice as much for the same turn of the handle. Nice considering the fact that NO patternmaker vise was ever made with a split half nut or quick release feature.

Emmert made several versions of vises including several versions of the K1. Early K1s has a tendency to crack along the outer portion of the face. So Emmert kept adding new ribbing configurations on the face. There are about 6 different versions or types of emmert K1. I was lucky to snag one of the last K1 made (a type 6-B) before these became so darn popular. Today, you can make more money buying and selling emmerts than IBM stock.

A few years ago, Kindt Collins sold its entire pattern vise to Bill Kerfoot. Parts, engineering drawings, patterns, etc. He in turn has tweaked the design a hair and removed the Kindt Collins name and affixed his own name.... HOPEWELL. I have seen photos of the HOPEWELL and it looks mighty fine! Right now, this is the only game in town in terms of getting a super solid, honest of goodness patternmaker vise with all its I's dotted and T's crossed. I have seen a number of clones from overseas and what not and quite frankly am rather weary of them. They also tend to be smaller and more reminiscent of I believe, the emmert K2. The real deal is 18 inches wide. Measure it before you buy!

Good Luck...

[Dev Emch]

Are these Hopewell vise's that you speak of in current production? If so, where would one locate these?

d

Last I heard. Try CS machinery in Oxford Pa. But you may wish to drink a large one before calling. As granny used to say on TV.... for medicinal purposes only!

[Bill Simmeth]

Oh my goodness, Bill's Hopewell version vices are gorgeous! He's really beefed up the castings in all the right places -- and finished them in real style. As Dev indicates, the price is not for the faint in heart, but if you have the bucks, well worth it. I'm hoping he puts together a marketing effort on them.

[Rob Will]

I was at Bill Kerfoot's shop last week and saw a few of the Hopewell vises in various stages of manufacture. They look great....and yes the price is about $3K.....not for the faint of heart indeed.

Rob

[Frank Munoz]

Do you own a patternmaker's vise and what kind is it?

Have you ever seen two patternmaker's vises mounted on the long side of a workbench?

Is an Emmert the best way to go?

Do any of the current imports have features that the Emmert vise does not? (various models)

Thanks,
Rob

Rob,

I am in the process of restoring two Emmerts, a Type 1 U-5 and a Type 2. I bought both on Ebay. I was pleased with the condition and the price on both. From what I have heard from others who own Emmerts, they are hard to beat. You just have to make sure your bench is hefty enough to support the weight! I'm designing my bench around the vises so that won't be a problem here. Check out ebay if you're looking to buy one. They are pricey, but you might get lucky as I did.

Frank