Black hands???

[Tom Jones III]

Last night I turned 2 bowls from fresh green mesquite. Afterwards both hands had something black on them that I could not wash off no matter what I scrubbed with or what type of soap I used. It was almost like an ink or dye that had soaked into my skin. 30' later I was sitting down reading when I noticed my hands shaking. This morning the black has mostly disappeared but both hands are shaking and a little painful in the hands and up my arms. Has anyone experienced this before? What do you do, wear gloves? Maybe it is just an allergy to certain woods?

BTW, this doesn't seem to be a major problem requiring medical help right now, it is getting better and if it is not gone entirely pretty soon I'll get it looked at.

[Keith Burns]

Tom I am not a medical professional or even an amature but if it was me I'd go to the Doctor now. Always better safe than sorry.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Wouldn't wait as you may have had a major allergic reaction to the wood. Just my $1.298.

[John Hart]

If it were me, I'd want to find out exactly what it was Tom. I've not seen the ink stain from any of the mesquite I've worked with so far. But it might be worth taking a sample of the wood with you as well. Maybe there's a cool elixer that'll cure cancer or something!:)

[Mark Cothren]

When I turn green wood that is really wet my left hand gets black - but it is from the wet metal of the tool rest, as best I can tell. It washes off some, but usually takes a day or two to completely go away.

Other than that I have not experienced what you have described. As has already been suggested, I'd probably visit my doc ASAP.

[Andy Hoyt]

I've had walnut stain me from head to toe and had to wait days for it to totally wear itself off. I attributed the coloration to the heavy tannins in the wood.

Just turned a piece of greenish mesquite that produced no staining at all.

Cedar is the only species that has ever affected me biologically, and that was a respiratory thing.

Maybe Doc Barton can offer more insight.

In the meantime, go see the sawbones, Tom.

[Rob Bourgeois]

Try rubbing your hands with lemon juice. It will remove walnut stains. Mayo will remove sap..try it.

As for the shaking....go to the doctor or cut back on caffiene:p

[Ron Ainge]

I don’t know if <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Mesquite</st1:place></st1:City> has the tannins in it that Walnut has but if that is the cause of the black stain then there is a simple way to rid your self of the stain. You can use citrus juice to get rid of it. Lemon works the best, just rub the juice on the stain and it will go away fairly fast.

[Bill Grumbine]

Tom, I often get a black stain on my hands from walnut, and sometimes from other woods. That is not much of an issue, and from what I hear it can be neutralized with lemon juice. I just let it wear off over the course of a couple of days.


HOWEVER...

The hand shake stuff is cause for real concern, and you should talk to a doctor. We all have slightly different body chemistries, and some woods affect different people differently. The good news is, you can probably avoid mesquite and never have the problem again. The bad news is, if you ignore it, it can expand to other species if you persist. There are some people who have had to give up woodturning or woodworking altogether, and some give it up instantly when they finally have a fatal reaction. This may sound alarmist, but it is nothing to fool around with, and there is no manliness in skipping the doctor on this one.

Good luck with it and I hope you can get it resolved.

Bill

[Tom Jones III]

Interesting, so no black hands from mesquite. I'll see if I can look up the chemicals in mesquite and see if it shares anything with walnut.

I spoke with an RN with almost 40 years experience. In her opinion the term should be a "sensitivity" rather than an allergy. She compared it to the reaction from immersing your hands in turpentine or some other chemical. Her suggestions were first and most obvious avoid mesquite. Other ideas were don't turn wet mesquite and gloves and mask. She did not think there were any over the counter medications that would help since she did not think it was an allergic reaction. In her opinion, any damage (unlikely) was already done and since it had been so long since the onset of symptoms that there was nothing left to do.

Thanks for the lemon juice idea, I'll give that a try when I get home.

BTW, the symptoms continue to get better. I'll let you know if anything interesting happens like my hands falling off, although if I have to type with my nose I will not take responsibility for spelling mistakes.

[John Hart]

....although if I have to type with my nose I will not take responsibility for spelling mistakes.


It never fails...people are always trying to find some lame excuse why they can't spell.....

"My Spellchecker sucks".....

"the keyboard sticks"....

"My hands fell off"


Sheesh!!!:rolleyes:

[Pat Salter]

My sister-in-law has been turning for years and with most woods. One day she was turning some walnut someone had given her and has such a reaction that my brother rushed her to the hospital. After doing some research, they found that it wasn't the wood. it was pesticides that had been sprayed on the tree before it was cut down.

Which means, We're having fun, but don't forget to be careful!

[John Hart]

Good point Pat. One of my first Jobs was working with Crop Dusters in Idaho and I got doused with Parathion one evening (insecticide). Got the shakes real bad and collasped. They took me to the hospital and got me shot up with Atropine. A bad day in potato land.:)

[Cecil Arnold]

Tom, there must not be many green mesquite turners here. Yes, it always turns your hands black, and will stain the heck out of your lathe bed. I can't offer anything on the slight palsy, other than to ask if you have done that many turnings at a time. It could be something as simple as over-stressing muscles that don't get used often, early signs of arthritis, or a reaction to that species of wood.

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

I agree with Cecil. I turn a LOT of mesquite that is green and it always turns my hands completely black. Never had any problems with it other than going to a black tie event with black hands! Oops! I never tried the lemon juice, will try that next time. I just let it wear off in a couple of days.

[Tom Jones III]

Thanks, good to know that the black hands is nothing unusual. Sounds like it is just a sensitivity ... may have to look into a trend airshield in addition to gloves.

Early arthritis, thanks Cecil. This week my sister asked if I was going to start coloring my hair that is starting to turn grey.

[Andy Hoyt]

Curtis / Cecil - So how come my hands didn't discolor?

It was a piece of mesquite. At least that's what George Conklin said he sent me a month or so ago; and since I've never eyeballed this stuff before, I have to assume he knows what he sent.

It was in the round, very well anchor-sealed, and the shavings were nice and wet and cool.

[Jeff Singleton]

In the patternshop we use a lot of mahogany and it will turn your hands blackish purple. We have been using lemon juice and/or white vinegar for about 25 years. Just make sure you do not have any open cuts or you will go ballistic and maybe even make up some new words along the way.

Jeff Singleton:eek:

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

No telling, Andy. Maybe it was not a green as I am turning. The stuff I am turning will actually sling water on you on ocasion! Also, there are different varieties of mesquite so that may have something to do with it. The stuff I work with is Honey Mesquite (Prosopis glandulosa) which is from Texas. If your mesquite came from Arizona it may have been Velvet mesquite (Prosopis velutina) which I belive is the most common mesquite in Arizona, California, and New Mexico. Don't know if that would make a difference or not. All I know is that I have worked with literally tons of mesquite in flatwork, sawmilling, and turning, and it always makes my hands black.

[Ed Scolforo]

Curtis, That mesquite I bought from you to turn that vase I posted recently didn't discolor my hands. I assume it was also honey mesquite, but it must have been dry enough.
Ed

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Ed,

Yep, that was honey mesquite and was green. Who knows. Maybe it once again depends on a person's body chemistry.

[George Conklin]

Curtis / Cecil - So how come my hands didn't discolor?

It was a piece of mesquite. At least that's what George Conklin said he sent me a month or so ago; and since I've never eyeballed this stuff before, I have to assume he knows what he sent.

It was in the round, very well anchor-sealed, and the shavings were nice and wet and cool.

How about a pic of what your turned, there Andy.

I don't know what type of mesquite it was. A co-worker had a tree blow over, gave me the trunk and told me it was mesquite.

[Andy Hoyt]

You betcha George.

Turned out very nice and I'm most pleased with it. The wood is gorgeous. It's upstairs right now suffering through the finishing process so I can't take a current pic.

But there is a photo of if hot off the press in this Ken Fitz thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33645). Scroll down to Post #5

[Frank Chaffee]

Tom,
Do not ever think that you are a sensitive guy!!!
You are a manly man!
That you experienced shaking of hands after exposure to the life blood of wood you spun on a lathe, can only be due to a curse beset upon you by witches.
PayPal me and I will talk to my people.
Frank

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

George,

Most likely it is Velvet Mesquite which is the most common mesquite in Arizona.

[George Conklin]

George,

Most likely it is Velvet Mesquite which is the most common mesquite in Arizona.

Thanks, Curtis.
I'm sending a small piece to another turner here. I hope his hands don't turn black:eek: .

I hope your feeling better, Tom.

[Andy Hoyt]

Curtis - are you saying that my chunk is Velvet Mesquite? I like that. Adds value!

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

Yes, Andy, I would guess with high probability that it is Velvet Mesquite. Of course Honey Mesquite, which we have here in Texas, is much prettier!! :D

[Frank Chaffee]

Thanks, Curtis.
I'm sending a small piece to another turner here. I hope his hands don't turn black:eek: .
I hope your feeling better, Tom.
George,
If you are dispersing substances that affect the nervous system from the desert southwest, you could at least confine yourself to those containing alkaloids with beneficial effects.
Frank

[Ernie Nyvall]

My hands got pitch black with the mesquite I have. I'm surprised John's didn't. I didn't have any hand shaking though.

I'm no doctor, but I do play one on the Creek and I'd get myself checked.

Ernie

[Dave Fifield]

Tom - maybe your blood glucose (BG) level got too low? If you'd been turning for hours (two bowls worth) and lost track of time, it's possible that the extended physical exertion lowered your BG to the point where your hands shook. Just an idea. Has happened to me on occasion.

Dave F.

[Tom Jones III]

Feeling fine today. Thanks for all the replies. I turned some green pecan last night and did some flat work with walnut and everything was fine.

Thanks Frank. Keep waiting by the computer until that payment arrives.

I must not be turning correctly, several people have replied about getting tired after turning for a couple hours. Do you guys wear heart rate monitors and drink Gatorade?

Andy I looked at that vase on post #5 of the thread you referenced and that is definitely not the same wood I was using. When wet, the mesquite I was using is very dark brown, almost black, with the 3/8" of wood just under the bark very yellow and only turning white as it dries.

Now that I think about it, I can't keep the dog from eating the shavings while I am turning. It doesn't seem to affect her, but that isn't saying much as she was eating a long dead skunk carcase while I was cutting the mesquite off the tree.


Tom,
Do not ever think that you are a sensitive guy!!!
You are a manly man!
That you experienced shaking of hands after exposure to the life blood of wood you spun on a lathe, can only be due to a curse beset upon you by witches.
PayPal me and I will talk to my people.
Frank

[George Conklin]

Now that I think about it, I can't keep the dog from eating the shavings while I am turning. It doesn't seem to affect her, but that isn't saying much as she was eating a long dead skunk carcase while I was cutting the mesquite off the tree.

When Andy sent me a big hunk of Ash, my dog dove right into all of the shavings that it was packed in. You'd thing the shavings were marinated in steak!

I have a habit of "white knuckleing" the tools and being rather tense while turning. I hope to loosen up with more experience. I usually have more of a numbing problem with my hands:rolleyes: .

Glad your feelinig better, Tom

[Dale Thompson]

I've had walnut stain me from head to toe .

Hey Andy,
Which head? ;) :) :cool:

Dale T.

[Andy Hoyt]

All three of them Dale.

George - That was hickory, not ash. And what's its status?