Faceplate turning

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

I know that most have a chuck now, I've got one on the way, but it may take a month or so to get to me.

After roughing out my 1st bowl, and boiling it, I'm looking for some info on how to turn bowls without a chuck. I know that this was the way it used to be the way it was done, but the only way I've seen is Bill G's DVD.

Point me to some online info it you please.

Cheers!

[John Hart]

Stu...I spent most of my vast turning career (9 months) doing my bowls with nothing but a faceplate. The key for me was the fact that I started the initial turning with the open part of the bowl away from the headstock. I didn't turn the bowl around to do the foot until the whole thing was complete. Jim Becker and Glenn Hodges have a real nice method of doing the foot, using a mouse pad. Here's Glenn Hodges' post on the subject. Tried this many times m'self. Works great!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=20558

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks John.

Thus, you put the faceplate on the bottom of the bowl, turn the side, and inside of the bowl, then take the bowl off the faceplate, use a jam chuck and turn the bottom of the bowl...?

Do I have that right?

Cheers!

[John Hart]

Yup...that's it Stu. I've done 20 or 30 bowls that way. The nice thing is that there's no rechucking involved and you can work without interruption. The tough part is the foot. I'll cut the entire profile, including the step for the base, then part it off by going in straight for a 1/4" then sloping inward toward the bowl. This gives you a head start on the shape of the foot. Then when you turn it around to finish off the foot, it's just a few light cuts.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Great.

BTW, in Bill G's dvd while using the parting tool, he says it is a "Pivoting cut" does this mean you pivot in or out...?

Hmm, not clear.

If the tool is contacting the piece, do you move the tool handle up pivoting cut down or move the tool handle down, pivoting the tool up.....

if you know what I mean..... :D

[John Hart]

I've never seen a turning DVD but I can tell you what I think it means.....Maybe pivot both ways!

Pivoting side to side gives breathing room for the parting tool. If that cut is too narrow, it'll grab the tool right out of your hand. :eek: Very scary. I like to do double parting so there's plenty of space.

Pivoting up and down seems to alleviate chatter somewhat as the diameter gets smaller and smaller.

[Bill Grumbine]

Great.

BTW, in Bill G's dvd while using the parting tool, he says it is a "Pivoting cut" does this mean you pivot in or out...?

Hmm, not clear.

If the tool is contacting the piece, do you move the tool handle up pivoting cut down or move the tool handle down, pivoting the tool up.....

if you know what I mean..... :D

Hi Stu

In the DVD, when I say pivoting cut, I mean to pivot the tool down into the wood. You rest the tool bevel on the wood so that it is not cutting, and then lift the handle up, causing the tip of the tool to slice into the wood. Actually scrape into the wood is more accurate, but if the bevel is riding, you will get a smoother cut with more of a shaving.

The method that John describes is fine for turning with just a faceplate. I use a different one that is a little more complicated, but works well, and I will use it with students who do not own chucks. It involves hot melt glue and a frying pan! :eek:

In brief, I will shape the outside of the bowl just as if I am going to use a chuck, but not do a tenon. Instead, I will do a flat spot, making it as flat as flat can be. If you can't get it flat, very slightly concave is okay. If the bottom is convex, it can rock, and the glue joint will fail.

While I am turning the bowl, I have an old second hand electric frying pan heating up a bunch of hot melt glue sticks. DO NOT use SWMBO's good frying pan. This is a one way trip to the shop, as that stuff is never coming all the way out ever again. You need a fry pan for volume. A hot melt glue gun will not produce the volume of glue you need fast enough to work.

Once the outside of the bowl is turned, it is removed from the faceplate, and a waste block is installed. The waste block is trued up in the same manner as the bottom of the bowl blank, and I draw concentric lines on it to aid in centering the bowl. It works even better if the waste block is the same size as the bottom of your blank.

Now that everything is ready, I remove the faceplate from the lathe and dip the waste block into the hot glue. I immediately press it to the bowl blank. There are a few seconds of open time to shift it around before the glue sets up. I let the glue get good and set and then it is ready to turn. I will use the tailstock for support for as long as possible, although the glue joint is pretty strong. The only time this thing has failed is when I am using very cold wood which has been sitting outside in the winter time. I don't think you will have that problem, but it does not hurt to get it to room temperature.

I credit this method to a Canadian woodturner (eh!) by the name of Ken Bullock, who has since gotten out of woodturning for other endeavours.

Good luck with it.

Bill

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks Bill, another tool to add to my arsenal.

An electric frying pan may be hard to come by, could I use a normal frying pan on a coleman stove? Low heat I guess eh?

I need to get that L-O-N-G grind on my bowl gouge, need to make up the jig.

sure is cool getting them long wet curlies coming off the blank!

Cheers!

[Bill Grumbine]

Stu, I guess you could use a regular pan and a burner, just be real careful of the flames and fumes! I woul dsay experiment with the heat. With the electric, I have it turned almost all the way up. This stuff isn't called hot melt for nothing!

Bill

[Jim Becker]

I also advocate the waste block method that Bill describes and will add that it not only allows you to conserve your "good wood" in the process, but you can also turn your bowls and vessels this way from start to almost finish without reversing. This is especially effective for smaller turnings and is the same technique often used for miniatures and for turning things out of "interesting" materials, such as tagua nuts and the like. I personally use thick CA for attaching blanks to waste blocks 'cause it's fast, but other adhesives are fine, too.

Do remember that the bottom of the object CAN be smaller than the waste block...you cut away part of the waste block as you finalize the bottom profile...which you don't need to do until after hollowing. This leaves enough support to handle the stresses of hollowing. You do enough of the outside of the turning to be able to visualize the end-game profile, hollow and then refine the bottom of the outside. Final parting with an "undercut" establishes the foot of the object.

[David Fried]

Stu,

This may give you some ideas.

http://www.cumberlandwoodturners.com/tips/Methods%20and%20Jigs%20for%20Reverse%20Turning%20B owls.pdf

Dave Fried

[Paul Douglass]

Man oh man! what a err ahhh someything. I started reading this thread, but natured called. At my age when nature calls you answer! As a went to the relief library, I grabbed one of the 20 old American Woodworker mags, I picked up at the city library yesterday for 5 cents each. I picked up issue #74, August 1999, and in that very mag is a method for turning bowl bases, not using a chuck. It is a variation of what Bill just discribed!

[Bernie Weishapl]

Stu when I used a faceplate to turn a bowl until I got my chuck I did like John. I finished the inside and most of the outside. When I turned the bowl around to do the bottom I made the donut chuck with several sized donuts for different sized bowls. Works good and last a long time.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks all, that is great, David that page has a lot of info, I guess I've got some more stuff to build now.... :D

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

You know I was not happy with how flat the homemade faceplate was, so I bodged this together to make a nice cut.....

35139

35138

I put a platform on the banjo, and screwed down a milling style vice to it, then I used the vice to hold at parting tool and made the faceplate a lot flatter than I could by hand.

Cheers!

[Gary Max]

Stu ---after watching everything that you have went through to get your lathe running---I now hug my lathe daily.
Heck I may even give it a name.

[John Hart]

Yeah....What Gary said.
Geez....If Necessity is the Mother of Invention.....You are the Father Stu!!

[Curt Fuller]

Usually the only real difference between turning with a face plate or a chuck is the part of the wood you have to waste. When you screw a piece onto the faceplate the part that the screws go into is wasted when you part it off. You can glue on a waste block but that takes a little time to let the glue dry and you have the risk of the glue joint letting go and turning your bowl into a WMD. With a chuck you can turn a recess and expand the jaws into it if you really nead to scrimp on the wood. Or at worst you can turn a 3/8" tenon for the jaws to grip and only loose a little wood. My favorite part of using a chuck is the wormwood screws that come with them. Drill a 5/16 hole in the center of the blank, screw it in and you're in business. Turn your recess or tenon on the bottom and shape the outside, flip it around and remount it in or on the jaws and turn the inside. A lot less time than messing with centering face plates and glueing on wasteblocks.

[Gary Max]

I use a face plate all the time---Still find it to be the safest way to hold wood for me.
After I get the stock round and ready for shapeing---then I use a Nova chuck for the last part of the process.

[Chuck Beland]

David, Curt & others. Thanks for all the excellent info I'm waiting for my Jet mini to come in now.http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c117/xxxrecon/smileys/weinen.gif

Until i get a chuck this will help a lot thanks

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c117/xxxrecon/smileys/awe.gif

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Yeah, great info for sure.

I made up some glue blocks today, worked really well, no need even for the face plate :D Just drill the block, tap it, and thread it on to the lathe, true it up, glue the wood I want to turn onto the block, and then wait..... :(

I'll get back to it tonight.

I sure like the look of the "Longworth Chuck" going to have to make one of them up for sure.

first, I have to build the jig so I can put that long grind on my bowl gouge, I'm not getting it done with the normal grind, yes, I've been watchin my Bill's DVD again, and while watching the master at work, it is hard to do as he says, when your gouge is not ground like that.

Man this is eating up my time, I forgot to eat dinner last night...... :eek:

Cheers!

[Glenn Hodges]

All of the NE bowls I have posted were turned using a faceplate. There is usually a crack where the faceplate is attached and this wood would be removed anyway so I do not consider loosing any wood with having to remove screw hole evidence. When these big wet things are turning I feel more comfortable with the screws and faceplate.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks for the info Glenn!

and the inspiration!! :D