Shepherd Tool RIP -- our loss

[Alex Yeilding]

I was saddened, but not terribly surprised, to hear that Shepherd Tool has shut its doors. I've got two ot their products--a shoulder plane that is less than perfect (builder's fault) and a Spiers smoother that is very close to completion.

Their product was excellent. And from my talks with them, I'm convinced that Doug and Ben had their "hearts" in the right place for delivery of quality to their customers. But they were badly lacking in the business savvy/customer service department. They never learned the "under-promise/over-deliver" secret fromula. I'd already decided that this was my last plane from them since my personality type is not to be the "squeaky wheel", and that was required to get satisfactory delivery.

I just wish that someone like Robin Lee or Thomas Lie-Nielsen would buy up thier inventory and tooling, and hire them as product development engineers. With decent consumer focus, their line would thrive, IMHO.

[Robert Weber]

I just wish that someone like Robin Lee or Thomas Lie-Nielsen would buy up thier inventory and tooling, and hire them as product development engineers. With decent consumer focus, their line would thrive, IMHO.
In all the talk of the bankruptcy (did they formally file?), I had never thought of that. What a magnificent idea!

[Tyler Howell]

I've seen some beautiful stuff.

[Tim Leo]

With all the posts regarding the demise of Shepherd Tool, I'm surprised that Doug and Ben haven't chimed in to enlighten us on their thoughts. Too bad.

tim

[Tom Sontag]

It might happen. It SHOULD happen. (I am talking about SOMEONE stepping up, not necessarily those suggested). One thread I saw mentioned that they have NOT formally filed anything, but they are insolvent. Sounds like they are negotiating something somewhere somehow. Is that too precise for you?

[Alan DuBoff]

I just wish that someone like Robin Lee or Thomas Lie-Nielsen would buy up thier inventory and tooling, and hire them as product development engineers. With decent consumer focus, their line would thrive, IMHO.So, you wish that someone who did know how to run a business, would run theirs so they could focus on, well, getting paid for that courtesy?

Both RL and TLN do produce great products.

I don't see why a company that is capable of successfully tooling and reselling hand planes would want to pay someone else for something they do well already.

Maybe I just don't see the sorrow in this situation, other than the folks that didn't get product from Shepherd Tool. Shepherd should make good on any outstanding orders they took from folks. Hiding behind a bankrupcy is no excuse to take anyone out of $$$s. Honest people don't do that. They work and pay those folks back, even if it takes 5 years, or 10 years, or however long. Hopefully Shepherd will do that. I don't think they will though.

I actually find not refunding any orders to be unacceptable. Not only did they take people's hard earned $$$s, from the reports I've read they didn't seem very truthful with their customers, some seemed to have been told their product shiped for weeks on end. This type of behaviour doesn't deserve to be rewarded in any way.

I agree, RIP, but is this really a loss? There's a side of this that is a gain, it depends on how you view the glass of water.

There's no reason to feel sorry for anyone here, we all win some and we all loose some. Wayne Anderson, Ray Isles, and Carl Holtey are proof that it is possible to stay in business selling infill planes.

This is probably another time I should be quiet and not say anything, as I've been doing, but I'm not ashamed to voice my opinion, that is what open forums are all about.:)

[Pam Niedermayer]

Most small businesses that fail do not file bankruptcy. Among other reasons, it's very expensive to do so, you have to have a fairly large amount of money to hire those lawyers.

Pam

[Tom Saurer]

Capitalism at work. They might have a great product, but if all the other variables don't fall into place then they will fail.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I would like to add an opinion based on not knowing their facts, but knowing very well facts of being the sole owner of a manufacturing business. The first quarter of 2005 was superb for us--skyrocketing sales and profits (we've been in business for 17 years and are a powder metal parts fabricator). The the price of raw materials hit us very hard--particularly since we supply 65% of our volume to the automotive market on multi year contracts. We managed by with raw material surcharges where we could. Next it was Katrina and the contrived or not impact on energy resources. Fact is, as tight as any plan is, things happen out of your control.

Give these guys a bit of a break and don't confuse what happened to them as something that was part of a diabolical plot to abscomb with hundreds or dare I say maybe thousands of dollars in a short term pyramid scheme, while the rest of their life will now be adversely affected by the loss of their business. Further, don't discount the impact on their personal relationships with spouses and offspring. As bad as businessmen they MAY have been, no one wishes this on themselves. Their exit could have been better, however, many times the exit strategy is out of the hands of the debtor and controlled by some bank or legal entity so as to protect their interests.

Let's give these guys a break and pray for those others in this forum or similar forums to gain the wisdom to survive what happened to Shepherd. It is hugely degrading to us to poke at another's adversity. I only hope it never happens to me or to a loved one.

[Alex Yeilding]

So, you wish that someone who did know how to run a business, would run theirs so they could focus on, well, getting paid for that courtesy?
Not exactly. I wish that someone would buy up their business to create a win-win-win; the purchaser makes money on the acquired business (or else why do it?), Ben and Doug can get paid for what they do very well and not divert their efforst to what they are really bad at, and we get a source we can trust for moderately priced infill plane kits.


Both RL and TLN do produce great products.

I don't see why a company that is capable of successfully tooling and reselling hand planes would want to pay someone else for something they do well already.
Not aware of their efforst in the infill plane kit market ;). Seriously, they certainly do what they do very well, and would undoubtedly add manufacturing expertise to Doug and Ben's operation. But they don't have infill plane kit design and manufacturing experience in house. Of course, it could be that they have examined this market and decided that there is not a price point that would attract enough volume to let them make money; I'm just wishing here, not pretending to have any knowledge or analysis.


Maybe I just don't see the sorrow in this situation, other than the folks that didn't get product from Shepherd Tool.
Well I was fortunate to [eventually] get everything I was due. Hopefully they will not ultimately stiff anyone. But even if no-one is stiffed, I view it as a loss, in that I will not get to buy another infill plane at roughly 50% more than a quality iron plane (plus sweat equity, but I don't factor that in as a cost because it is recreational for me)


I agree, RIP, but is this really a loss? There's a side of this that is a gain, it depends on how you view the glass of water.
I don't see that side.

[Alan DuBoff]

Not aware of their efforst in the infill plane kit market ;). I see your "wink", but I 'spose you doubt that either LV or LN are capable of producing infill planes? Ray Isles reproduction norris infills are available from Joel at Tools for Working Wood, today.

Of course, it could be that they have examined this market and decided that there is not a price point that would attract enough volume to let them make money; I'm just wishing here, not pretending to have any knowledge or analysis.And I wonder how Wayne Anderson, Ray Iles, and Carl Holtey were able to figure this out? It must have been difficult for them.:rolleyes:

Well I was fortunate to [eventually] get everything I was due.Fortunate is probably a good word to use for describing your situation.

What I have a problem with is the statement Doug was sending out to customers that were not as fortunate as yourself. The same common message was:

"I regret that I must inform you that shepherd Tool is no longer in business. It is insolvent. We can be of no further assistance to you. Sincerely Ben Knebel"

This is not acceptable, period. I had credit problems when I was younger and I had a house put into foreclosure due to a partnership which my partner didn't take care of when I was living overseas. It took me 10 years to get my house out of foreclosure, clean my credit up, and get everything cleared. I did not file bankrupcy and worked for 10 years while I paid off my debt little by little.

The proper thing to do is tell folks that they will get a job and work like everyone else and pay people back as they can, just like any other honest people would do.

A history of stringing people out for 3-6 months and continue to tell them the product had shipped already when it didn't, and more so to continue taking more money when they couldn't meet the existing orders, is just not good business practice. The fact that they twice said they would clear up things, and make good, and then file bankrupcy after that...well, that is just not good.

Feeling sorry for these people is clearly your right, just as mine is to feel for them in the way I do. This is nothing to say about their product, the people who got them were happy with them, although most report more time required than advertised, still this is nothing against the quality of the product. It is their business practice that was unacceptable, and in the future they will be able to realize that they were not good at business. Not everyone is, and not being a good businessman is nothing to be ashamed of.

Not paying back people's money that they sent them is unacceptable (and something to be ashamed of), and not telling those people that you will work to pay them back even if you have to get a job and pay off little by little, well, that would be the honorable and honest way to go out of business in this case.

[Dave Anderson NH]

So far we've managed to keep this thread within bounds. Please be careful when expressing your opinion-whatever it is. We don't want to have things degenerate into a rancorous argument. If that occurs I will have to edit posts and that is something I really don't want to have to do. So far I've never edited or pulled a thread for content though on occasion I've done it for terms of service violations like links to personal websites, commercial posts, etc.

Feel free to express your opinion, just keep things as civil as they are right now. I'm not casting aspersions at anyone or accusing anyone of anything at all, so please don't feel threatened or anxious. A good thread generates light, not heat.

Thanks for your consideration.

Dave

[Rich Tesoroni]

This was posted on this forum Aug 19, 05 by Ben:


"We have had a number of issues that have delayed shipments--including a bad batch of wood that had to be rerun and some problems in heat treat and some other supplier issues. Add to that the move of our shop and a huge influx of orders and thus the delays. Not trying to excuse this--just explain it.

We are now in a postition to catch up the backlog on kits and we apologise to everyone waiting for kits for the delays. Your kit Jim and a number of others will ship by Tuesday.

We have had delivery issues for a number of months but I would like to assure all our customers that the product will be delivered--we always do."

Maybe I'd feel sorry for them if at the end of the day they had at least delevered what they were paid for.

Even if they can't pay people back, why couldn't they have completed the kits?

That bugs me more.
Rich

[Alex Yeilding]

I see your "wink", but I 'spose you doubt that either LV or LN are capable of producing infill planes? Of course not. I just wish they would produce moderately priced infill kits. Don't much care whether they develop internally, or buy up Shepherd's tooling, designs, instruction manuals, etc. I suspect buying might be cheaper than internal development, but only guessing here.


Ray Isles reproduction norris infills are available from Joel at Tools for Working Wood, today. I can afford a $250 kit for making an infill smoother. A $900 infill smoother is a different story.

Of course, it could be that they have examined this market and decided that there is not a price point that would attract enough volume to let them make money; I'm just wishing here, not pretending to have any knowledge or analysis.
And I wonder how Wayne Anderson, Ray Iles, and Carl Holtey were able to figure this out? It must have been difficult for them.:rolleyes:
I'm not sure they have figured out how to manufacture an infill kit that would be easy for the novice to build, at a modest price, or that they have tried to. Or maybe they decided there was no market there, so they decided to opt for making higher priced finished planes only.


What I have a problem with is the statement Doug was sending out to customers that were not as fortunate as yourself. The same common message was:

"I regret that I must inform you that shepherd Tool is no longer in business. It is insolvent. We can be of no further assistance to you. Sincerely Ben Knebel"
I had not seen that. Really bad for those who lost money. But I still contend that the rest of us lost, if only an opportunity. That's why I wish someone else would step forward to fill this void in the market.

Alan, it seems that I am being somehow cast as a defender of Shepherd. Go back and read my original post. I found their business practices unacceptable, and stated that I would not do business with them again without some major changes in their organization. That doesn't, in my mind at least, conflict with the fact that I found them to be nice guys in my dealings with them, nor with the fact that I feel that they served a niche in the market that I wish would get filled. Please don't confuse these latter points with an approval of their business practices.

[Mike Swindell]

I don't know whether I feel sorry for Doug and Ben. Across various other forums, many members have lost thousands of dollars cumulatively and who knows how many othe customers were taken. Taking money and not delivering at least a kit is borderline fraud. Using a laser to cut the parts is quick and dirty once the programming is finalized - which it was. Raw material is cheap, heat treating is not expensive - ask Steve Knight. Where did the money go ?

Seems like it would not take a great deal of $ to get the kits going again and forget about the infils, let the customer make those, afterall they are woodworkers. In the end these were poor businessmen and the result - a failure. It's one thing to lose your own money, but customers money is another story.

[Alex Yeilding]

So far we've managed to keep this thread within bounds. Please be careful when expressing your opinion-whatever it is.

Point taken.

I suspect that Alan and I are more in agreement than disagreement on the subject, and are just "quibbling" over attitude and tone more than substance.

'Nuff said.

[James Mittlefehldt]

I tend towards the philosophy that people are essentially good, and so allow that to govern my consideration of others.

I met one of the founders of Shepard tools a number of years ago at a woodshow in Toronto when they were just starting out, I don't know if it was Doug or Ben, but he seemed a decent sort with an infectious enthusiasm, which still makes me smile when I think of it.

I suspect that if, as some here have said they lacked business acumen then perhaps the secured creditors, (ie the banks) moved in on them leaving them no access to material or goods, banks by and large care nothing for the customers of their foreclousures in my experience, merely their own interests.

The largest companies in North America often are faced with unexpected issues they had not planned on and even some of them do not handle them well. Perhaps they were too optimistic and not pragmatic enough. It is all speculation of course as is the stuff written above that casts doubts on their character, as at this point no one knows the full facts or outcome yet.

I would be willing to wager that most people on here have had the unsettling experience of going to a favourite store, restaurent etc and finding the place locked up and out of business. I have witnessed a small business go out, that most of the customers thought was doing well, but they were insulated from the harsher realities of running that business.

That tore up the owner inside horribly when it closed and I would be willing to bet it has done the same to Ben and Doug, so I won't dump on them like some seem to want to do. With time more information should come to light and maybe people will be more favourably disposed to judge objectivly then.

Just my rambling two cents worth.

[Alan DuBoff]

Point taken.

I suspect that Alan and I are more in agreement than disagreement on the subject, and are just "quibbling" over attitude and tone more than substance.

'Nuff said.Absolutely, and I wasn't trying to dispute with anyone, was only offering my view and how I see it. I was not a customer, and I'm thankful for making that decision when seeing some of the past occurances of problems there.

Even if they didn't give money back to customers that paid them ahead of time for their orders which were never delivered, at least an appology would be better than just telling people you're insolvent. Even an "I'm so sorry...". Nobody should accept this, this is not dumping on anyone, this is providing customer loyalty to those that provide service. The reason Lee Valley is so well regarded in this industry is because they will go out of their way and do what it takes to make something good. They will even pay return shipping and give a full refund for any products you don't like. This is great customer service.

[Ben Knebel]

ANNOUNCEMENT

This announcement will appear on the Shepherd home page shortly.

It is with the deepest regret that we must announce that The Shepherd Tool Company Inc. has ceased business operations--it is insolvent.

Although wholly inadequate, an apology is all we can offer those customers that may not have received their products. There are simply no funds--business or personal--available to do anything else at this time.

For those that may be interested in purchasing Shepherd and/or any of its assets please contact Rick Whittacker of WWCFDC---519-846-9839 or rick@wwcfdc.com NOTE: Please do not contact Rick regarding unfulfilled orders--- there is nothing he can or will do for you.

Although orders have continued to come in we have NOT processed any since we realized that we no longer had a viable business.

Many folks have wondered how this could happen and there has been much speculation as to the "real" cost of these products.

The best way to describe what happened is an analogy to personal finances:
Imagine it this way--month to month your pay check just covers your
bills---you have nothing in the bank---no savings of any kind---indeed
you've borrowed on credit just to live and are always a little behind on
your payments.
Now lose your job and have no income for a few months---boom --you are
insolvent-- the electricity gets cut off as does the heat--the phones go
off---the landlord has started eviction proceedings---your creditors are
after you----happens very quickly when it happens---all it takes is 60-90
days of no income and you're done. That is what happened to Shepherd. Did we
expect Jan and Feb to be slow--yes--did we expect sales to be virtually
zero-no.

We were, as a business, under-capitalized from the beginning. I used personal resources to fund much of Shepherd's activities-- in the early years---hence I have lost everything including a home, a car and a personal, very valuable, tool collection. I am personally bankrupt as a result--Doug may follow that path shortly. Many folks have called Doug and I crazy but we believed in what we were doing. I have a personal philosophy that says " If you believe in something--then believe in it and commit--not a little--everything" Doug and I did just that. In that philosophy lies greatness--great success and great failure. Shepherd tool was both.
*
We regret nothing we have done excepting our inability--at the end--to deliver the outstanding customer orders. That has been our greatest pain and please believe we deeply regret that aspect of our demise.

There has been much said on the chat-lines that is hurtful and while we understand the anger we are not dishonest people. Indeed we were delivering what we could to customers right up to our last day of operations--using what little we had left of personal resources to deliver what we could. In fact we had some customers in the shop, while we were shutting down, helping them build their planes and providing what parts we could still make.

Cost of production for these planes is high--there has been speculation that these plane components could be manufactured for between 50 and 100 bucks and that we were making a fortune on these planes. I'll just throw up a few numbers noting that the actual cost of the materials themselves was the lowest of the cost elements. All of the cost was in production. The costs vary by plane but generally--for the bench planes:
Lever cap and screw -----65.00
Iron and cap iron and screw-----45.00
Adjuster-----56.00
Wood infills ---47.00-100.00
And that is just some of the components

While there is still some inventory in the shop we no longer have the ability--or the legal right --to ship any of it. All of it belongs to the primary lender. We no longer have the right to touch it.

Some folks have speculated that we are personally protected because we were an incorporated business--while generally true, insofar as unsecured creditors are concerned, you cannot, as a small startup, get business loans--at least not in this country--- without signing a general security agreement and without a personal guarantee. Basically you pledge your personal assets as well as all of the assets of the business as security against the loan to the business. No personal guarantee--no loan.

Much has been made of the fact that we announced at the end of last summer that we had secured additional financing and that we could finally address and fix delivery issues. We did indeed fix much of it--we had 105 customers to deliver and delivered 80 of those customers in the subsequent weeks. 2 things happened that prevented us from delivering the rest--mostly adjustered planes. Our adjuster supplier--that was to have delivered the adjusters by the end of October-- didn't actually deliver the last of the components till January. We had to go to our previous supplier--at additional cost--to get at least some made but he was only able to produce 3-5 adjusters per week--not enough. In addition--because of some very nasty and in some parts patently untrue posts on some chat-lines we had to refund a substantial amount of money--amounting to about 25% of the funds we had just received---a disaster.

You will notice that I have restored some of the links on the home page to allow access to information that customers may find useful. We will keep this site alive as long as we can but be aware that this may shutdown at any time. So if there is information you want--get it soon.

Doug and I wish to thank all those customers who have supported us over the years for their loyalty and understanding.

Sincerely
Ben and Doug

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Regardless of how one feels about Shepherd tools, I think we can all agree that it's a loss for those who didn't get what they ordered -- as well as a loss for the owners. I can't imagine losing everything like they did.

[Alan DuBoff]

Thanks for posting this message Ben. I do feel it's unfortunate that your business ended the way it did, and was a bit taken with the previous message sent out to your customers.

This explaination is a more more honorable response, IMO, and I respect both you and Doug for sending such a message out.

This is surely a bitter pill for both of you to swallow, having your business liquidated, that's no fun at all.

Thanks for taking the time (and swallowing your pride) to post this message, I commend you for such a task.

[Alex Yeilding]

Ben, I wish you and Doug the best personally, and am sorry that your business has come to this end.

There has been much said on the chat-lines that is hurtful and while we understand the anger we are not dishonest people. Indeed we were delivering what we could to customers right up to our last day of operations--using what little we had left of personal resources to deliver what we could. Ben, you know that I had some problems with my planes, but let me testify to the truth of the statement you made above, at least as far as my experience goes. I was very frustrated by the time it took to get mistakes corrected, and the amount of followup it took from my end to get those done. But I never questioned your integrity or intent. When you sent two left sides on no right side on my steel shoulder plane, and had no more steel sides run, you sent brass sides. When I contacted you 10 months after buying my smoother kit about the infills not being square, you sent new ones -- and I find out now that this was during the time when things were falling apart.

So, as I said at the beginning of this thread, this is a loss to all of us. I probably will stop my infill plane collection at two!:(

[C.R. Miller]

Out of interest, how does one end up with two left sides? Are the relieving dovetails already cut or was it a skew shoulder?

[Alex Yeilding]

Out of interest, how does one end up with two left sides? Are the relieving dovetails already cut or was it a skew shoulder? The bevel on the top of the sides was already rough-cut. took a little looking and turning around in my hands to see that was what had happened, and convince myself they were not interchangable!

BTW, the DTs were cut perpendicular to each surface. First step of building is a little filing to widen the outside edges of the DT cuts before assembling and peining.

[C.R. Miller]

Thanks Alex. That clears things up.

[Alex Yeilding]

PS - I am making a set of 3 Georgial box mitre planes if anyone on the forum would like to see them please see www.picturetrail.com/garykramer (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/www.picturetrail.com/garykramer) and look in album number 2
I would be interested to know what you think .

Not only great results, but great documentation of the process! The only thing I wish you had included is some photos as the peening was progressing. Those who have not seen the process would find it interesting that that ugly clump of hammered metal could be filed out to those nice dovetails.

Two questions:
1) What is the screw on the back of the original. I saw you mention adding a strike button--is that all that is. Is the slot in it just because that is the material the maker had on hand, but no function of the slot?
2) What was your final finish schedule for the brass? I took my brass shoulder plane up through 600 paper, then buffed on felt wheel with compound, but it is too shiny for my tastes. So I am wonder what level of scrath to add back to the surface.

Please repost this as a separate thread. The Shepherd Tool thread is getting old, and many who would love to see this work may not be following that. FWIW, the link in your post did not work as is--it prepended www.sawmillcreek.org to your url. I don't know if that is something about how you posted it, or a temporary glitch in the forum software. I noticed that it did not "reply with quotes" as usual when I sent this, so there may be some forum software glitches in progress.

[Gary M Kramer]

Even if they didn't give money back to customers that paid them ahead of time for their orders which were never delivered, at least an appology would be better than just telling people you're insolvent. Even an "I'm so sorry...". Nobody should accept this, this is not dumping on anyone, this is providing customer loyalty to those that provide service. The reason Lee Valley is so well regarded in this industry is because they will go out of their way and do what it takes to make something good. They will even pay return shipping and give a full refund for any products you don't like. This is great customer service.

I am also a small businessman - Personally I lost US$ 1330 of my own hard earned at Shepherd Tools. While We may have sympathy for the situation that the partners in that business find themselves I think that the attitude towards me personally sucks. I found out about the closure of Shepherd Tools while trawling through the internet. I paid for my goods using PayPal
and sat back and waited and waited. Had I been contacted by Shepherd Tools I could have made a claim for compensation. As it is I have lost every penny and can feel little sympathy for the people involved. I placed my order with them as I like seeing small scale enterprise growing and getting business from me.

At the end of this episode I have learned two lessons

1. I will not purchase anything which is not ready to ship within 28 days.
2. I will ask more questions and seek out independent references before I part with my money

Regards Gary M Kramer

[Alan DuBoff]

While We may have sympathy for the situation that the partners in that business find themselves I think that the attitude towards me personally sucks.That is something I took offense to, in the way the customers were treated. I understand that it's tough to stay in business, I was in business for myself for many years until the dot-bomb era. I have owned my own businesses, worked for my family as a kid who owned their own business, and have always gone out of my way to make sure the folks I dealt with were happy and completely satisfied.

I have probably been too vocal on this topic given that I was not a customer. The reason I wasn't a customer of their is because I have read some of the outraged customers of Shepherd Tool in the past.

You've learned something way more valuable than $1330 Gary. You've learned what it takes to build a plane from the ground up, and your planes look wonderful. This is something that it's hard to place a value on. Kudos to you! Sometimes life is funny, the way it works out. (Maybe it was GOD's humor, who knows...but it happened;-)

[Gary M Kramer]

I have probably been too vocal on this topic given that I was not a customer. The reason I wasn't a customer of their is because I have read some of the outraged customers of Shepherd Tool in the past.

You've learned something way more valuable than $1330 Gary. You've learned what it takes to build a plane from the ground up, and your planes look wonderful. This is something that it's hard to place a value on. Kudos to you! Sometimes life is funny, the way it works out. (Maybe it was GOD's humor, who knows...but it happened;-)

Hello Alan

Thankyou for the kind words.

I actually had to teach myself right from the get go. When I ordered from Shepherd Tools about 18 months ago the kits arrived without full documentation and one had some had bits missing..................

In the end I was driven to making my own planes from scratch due to the poor quality of service I received at the hands of Shepherd Tools. When I placed my third order in February of this year I was offered a discount that seemed almost too good to be true .............and it was :( :( :(

I am going to make a small number of planes myself and try and sell them as completed items - if I dont have the goods I wont be taking peoples money.........not just good business but honest.

On the money aspect if people are happy to sell their reputation and good name for $ 1330 in my eyes they are selling themselves cheap. Having my name dragged through the dirt would cost a lot more than $ 1330. :) :)

Best regards Gary M Kramer

[Gary M Kramer]

ANNOUNCEMENT
Cost of production for these planes is high--there has been speculation that these plane components could be manufactured for between 50 and 100 bucks and that we were making a fortune on these planes. I'll just throw up a few numbers noting that the actual cost of the materials themselves was the lowest of the cost elements. All of the cost was in production. The costs vary by plane but generally--for the bench planes:
Lever cap and screw -----65.00
Iron and cap iron and screw-----45.00
Adjuster-----56.00
Wood infills ---47.00-100.00
And that is just some of the components

Thats nothing Ben I was delieriously happy with the situation - I was charged
$ 1330 and all I got was an email saying you had gone bust and I could go Whistle Dixie if I thought I was getting anything from you....................:( :( :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Doug and I wish to thank all those customers who have supported us over the years for their loyalty and understanding.

Sincerely
Ben and Doug

Pass me the sick bag............:(

Regards Gary M Kramer

[Dave Anderson NH]

We pushed this topic about as far as it can go. Further comments about money lost, motives, personalities, business ethics, etc will be deleted without notice or notification. This is degenerating rapidly into areas that violate SMC terms of service.

This thread is locked, ended, and the decision is NOT open to discussion. Any attempt to pick this up on a new thread will be dealt with harshly.