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View Full Version : Gary Curtis’ Gloat: General 350 Table Saw with Sliding Table



Frank Pellow
03-26-2006, 4:58 AM
post #1 of 2:

(written by Gary but typed and submitted by Frank Pellow because Gary is currently without a computer. Gary tells me that he will use the internet at the library to respond to any questions posed in this thread.)

It took me a year to make the proper choice of a saw to complete the outfitting of my new shop. I got side tracked -- obsessed – with specifications. For six months, I deluded myself into thinking I could afford or would need a European Format Saw (EFS). I was wrong on both points.

But, by investigating two brands of EFS (see Paul Cresti’s excellent discussions here on SMC), I learned what I needed to make a balanced, appropriate decision. I visited the showrooms of Felder and Knapp, both here in California. Five owners of these Austrian machines invited me to their shops and discussed their work. The owners that I visited explained that a sliding table changed the way they work. First of all, safety is the prime advantage. You can effortlessly push a sheet of 4 x 8 plywood through the blade and be standing far to the left. By clamping the wood to the slider, the cut will be quite accurate because you are neither slipping it along the rip fence nor over the table top. The sliding table bears the weight and guides the cut.

On a true EFS, you can accomplish the same precision with rips because the sliding table comes right up to the kerf line. My General slider meets the cabinet 8 inches to the left of the blade.

About the same time that I realized I could not finance a $14,000 tool, a fellow in my woodworking club advised me to get any right-tilt cabinet saw and bolt on a Robland sliding table as he had done on his 12 inch Inca. He added that General made sliding table saws for about $3,000.

I guess that you could say that I turned into a “gear head” over this matter of saws. But, in the end, I learned a tremendous amount about equipment and its application. The General 350 is the right-tilt version of the more popular 650. It weighs 520 pounds, not counting the 5hp Baldor motor or the 240 pound slider and outrigger support.

The 350 came with a mediocre instruction booklet. A slightly more detailed (and misleading :( ) book covers the matter of the Beissemeyer fence. Had my dealer not provided his own “cheat sheet”, I would have gotten lost figuring out the bolt patterns on the guide rails. Thanks to Eagle Tools of Los Angeles.

A third manual dealt with the slider and its calibrations. This booklet is a superb tutorial :) . Had I known better and enlisted a friend, I could have reduced the installation task from four long days to six hours. In all fairness to the manufacturer, sliding tables are complex. Any brand must be aligned in three axes to exacting tolerances. Felder even offers the services of a factory-trained technician to visit your home for set-up and calibration. The online forums of Felder and Knapp are filled with stories of installation headaches.

The General-designed table is good because it provides some redundancies at alignment points. You choose among several bearings or track adjustments to true up the table.

So, why bother with all the fussiness? My first paying job will be to furnish about 200 running feet of 9 foot high cabinets for an aircraft hanger. Sliders provide an easy materials-handling advantage when working with sheet goods.

And, when that job is done, I’ll be able to look at the quality that shows on every inch of my Canadian-made saw. General even has their own iron or source.

Pictures follow:

1) Hi tech: A dial guage limits fore-and-aft run-out on the slider to .002 inches.

34895

2) Low tech: Checking squareness of the crosscut fence to the table.

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3) The ugly crate

(I did not get this picture from Gary -Frank)

4) Stretched out – Length from extension table to fully extended crosscut fence is 10’ 6”.

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5) Sliding table and outrigger arm weigh240 pounds. A European slider would weigh 1,100 pounds.

34898

Frank Pellow
03-26-2006, 5:03 AM
post #2 of 2:

6) The slider top measures 32” x 32”. To crosscut a 50” sheet of ply, the fence would be remounted to the rear of the table, a 4-minute procedure.

34900

7) The key to making the slider ‘co-planer’ to the saw top is the accurate machining of the guide bar and bearings on the outrigger arm.

34901

8) Crosscut fence, showing rule, flip-stop, and miter angle scale. Miter angles are measured 44” out from the blade. Each degree is spaced approximately 1 inch, so the angle scale readings are precise.

34899


My thanks to follow Creeker, Frank Pellow, for posting this. I have no computer yet in this new house.


Gary Curtis
Trinity County, California

John Lucas
03-26-2006, 5:47 AM
Frank and Gary,
Thanks for posting. It is a serious slider and lookslike it wil last you forever. How does it compare dollarwise with the larger Excaliber?

lou sansone
03-26-2006, 6:03 AM
wow ... sweet saw and set up... why were you trying to cut the level ?:)

lou

Vaughn McMillan
03-26-2006, 6:48 AM
At long last, we see the green! Nice looking and very impressive rig, Gary.

- Vaughn

tod evans
03-26-2006, 8:15 AM
nice saw gary! (thanks for posting frank)

Frank Pellow
03-26-2006, 10:29 AM
Gary, I jusat checked the General web site and it appears that the sliding table is General International (i.e. not made in Canada) rather than General. Is this true? Is your sliding table the model 50-SLT60?

Gary Herrmann
03-26-2006, 11:01 AM
Nice set up, Gary. Don't forget to post your trials and tribulations of getting that slider set up by yourself. :rolleyes:

If I had the room downstairs, I would have gotten the General slider too.

Paul B. Cresti
03-26-2006, 11:39 AM
Gary & Frank,
Nice post. General, Canada makes some beautiful equipment. Will be very curious to see how that slider works over time. Did you get the scoring unit with it (modulus attachement?) ? Is it suggested to be bolted down when crosscutting large sheetgoods/heavy items? as it the foot print does not seem to be increased to the left yet the capacity has increased tremendously on that side. Just a little note...you do not have to spend 14k on a slider...a lot of flash and sizzle in one of the brands you mentioned and not enough real content..you just need to look at where it counts

Corey Pionk
03-26-2006, 12:22 PM
Gary, I jusat checked the General web site and it appears that the sliding table is General International (i.e. not made in Canada) rather than General. Is this true? Is your sliding table the model 50-SLT60?

Frank I looked at the sight and it says the 50-SLT60 is the Exalibur Sliding Table. General sells both the Exalibur and there own General models. I don't know if there model is made in Canada or not, I will email them to find out.

Frank Pellow
03-26-2006, 12:55 PM
Gary, I just checked the General web site and it appears that the sliding table is General International (i.e. not made in Canada) rather than General. Is this true? Is your sliding table the model 50-SLT60?


Frank I looked at the sight and it says the 50-SLT60 is the Exalibur Sliding Table. General sells both the Exalibur and there own General models. I don't know if there model is made in Canada or not, I will email them to find out.

I found a copy of the manual that Gary sent to me about three months ago, and the model number of Gary's sliding table is either 50-400 or 50-400S. It is labeled General International, not General. The 350 saw, of course, is General.

Frank Pellow
03-26-2006, 1:11 PM
Gary tells me that he will go to the library tomorrow afternonn and respond to questions and comments in this thread at that time.

Dave Richards
03-26-2006, 2:47 PM
Gary, that looks great. It's good to finally see some pictures of your shop. The saw looks like fun.


By the way, did you order the sheetrocker's stilts from the Craftsman Gallery to go with your Rat? :D :D

And how come you never call me anymore? ;)

Gary Curtis
03-27-2006, 4:37 PM
About your questions. John, the Excalibur sliding table performs well, according to my machine dealer and a few owners. I didn't choose that option because I didn't want something with legs underneath. The Excalibur costs $600-700. My General Slider was $850.

Frank, the sliding table is manufactured in Taiwan by General International. The folks in Drummondville (Canada) said they are very particular on the specifications of products coming out of that factory. Otherwise they'd make it Quebec, like the saw.

Paul, the scoring option available is the Modulus. I bought all my blades at a nearby saw-sharpening service. Being as my county is home to 12 sawmills, the sharpener has considerable experience. He told me some of his customers remove the scoring blade from their machinery. Instead, he suggested Forrest or Everlast blades with a ply or laminate tooth pattern.
So I passed, because I can always add it later if I have problems with tearout.

When I cited a figure of $14K, Paul, I was referring to a saw/shaper combination. Bear in mind this is my first saw, and by far the biggest purchase in my shop. I just didn't have an extra $3000 for Mini-Max or Hammer. But, I ain't dead yet, so bigger things may happen down the road.

About the footprint of the General cabinet saw. Being a right tilt, the 5hp motor counter balances the sliding table on the left quite well. I loaded it up with 2 sheets of 3/4 ply on the slider. Then I went to the extreme right side, off the end of the extension table. That side was still firmly planted on the ground.

But the saw comes with two cabinet braces of 3/16 angle iron. I just didn't bolt them on yet. When asked about this, General said they weren't mandatory. I don't like things I can trip on, but if I detect any instability, I'll attach them.

It isn't often mentioned, but one feature I really like in a true EFS is the "L" shaped cabinet. A solid 1/14-inch (6mm) steel box rests underneath the slider. That frame also provides massive attachment points for the bearings supporting the slide.

Gary Curtis

Gary Curtis
03-27-2006, 5:37 PM
Somebody asked me why it took 4 days for install and calibration. By far, the most difficult thing was getting that 150-lb table assembly to float .02 (hundredths) of an inch above the saw table. And perfectly parallel to it. The term they is use 'co-planar' "

The first try, and I got dead plumb, but I was about .05 above the table. So, I had to dissassemble the whole thing. In my second try, I was about .009 below the saw table.

I read the install manual casually. It did say, about halfway through, that a second person would be helpful. Considering the dead weight that needs to be lifted, and the tight tolerances required before cinching up the bolts, one person can't do the job.

As I stated earlier, the forums for both Felder and Knapp EFS equipment air a lot of frustration on set up and calibration. I even know one fellow who sold an Altendorff Sliding saw because of the time required keeping it adjusted.

Gary Curtis