Vertical grain drawer front?

[Mark Hollingsworth]

I'm building a desk out of ash,oak and walnut for my son and I have a 11 1/2" ash board that I think would look cool for the drawer fronts with the continual grain running vertical. I have two questions: Is there a problem doing this such as increased chance of splitting and secondly if there's no problem there can I dovetail the fronts with the vertical grain? Your help ill be much appreciated. Thanks, Mark

[CPeter James]

I would be concerned about stability of the drawer front. Boards that wide tend to change shape with changes in humidity. Also, it would be more prone to splitting as the strength is in the opposite direction. You could do the dovetails that way, but they would be weak and tend to break off.

CPeter

[Mark Hollingsworth]

Would this idea work if I built my box with the dovetails and put the ash on vertically as a false front?

[Marion Rood]

Would this idea work if I built my box with the dovetails and put the ash on vertically as a false front?
Wood is going to move. Attach so it can move and not split. What I hear you saying is that you have this board that you think is beautiful. You want to display it to highlight it's beauty. I think you should do it. If the board doesn't work out you can replace fronts later. If it works out you are an artist.
I like ash.
There is a wood movement calulator here.
http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/shrinkulator.htm

[Mark Pruitt]

If you elongate the holes in the "actual" drawer front, that will allow for expansion/contraction of the wood with changes in relative humidity. To keep the false fronts oriented to the same point, don't elongate the center hole.
Mark

[Jim Becker]

Another option is to resaw the material and apply it as a thick veneer to a substrate. Resaw to somewhere near 1/16", float it through the drum sander to even the thickness and then apply. Wood movement gets to be a non-issue and you have a strong drawer (without the end-grain on the top/bottom edge) It also stretches your wonderful wide material a long way!

[Mark Hollingsworth]

Another option is to resaw the material and apply it as a thick veneer to a substrate. Resaw to somewhere near 1/16", float it through the drum sander to even the thickness and then apply. Wood movement gets to be a non-issue and you have a strong drawer (without the end-grain on the top/bottom edge) It also stretches your wonderful wide material a long way!
Jim I really like your idea but it presents me with 2 problems that only money can solve at this point. One is that one of the drawers will be 11 3/4 tall and I don't have a riser on my 14" BS and the other is I don't have a drum sander yet. I have my eye on the new 18" Griz but after having just bought a new BS and jointer my wife might move me to my shop permanently. HMMMMMMMMMMMM! Could have it's plusses. But for now I kinda like the house for eating and sleeping. But yours is a great idea if I could figure out how to make it work. Keep thinking! Thanks, Mark

[Mike Cutler]

Another option is to resaw the material and apply it as a thick veneer to a substrate. Resaw to somewhere near 1/16", float it through the drum sander to even the thickness and then apply. Wood movement gets to be a non-issue and you have a strong drawer (without the end-grain on the top/bottom edge) It also stretches your wonderful wide material a long way!

To echo Jim's post. The only times I've seen this done on furniture, antiques. It was done utilizing some type of a veneer process. For some reason all the examples were tiger, or highly figured curly maple. Don't know why.

[Rob Blaustein]

(without the end-grain on the top/bottom edge)

Jim, I am also thinking about vertical orientation of drawers--what do you get then for the edges? Presumably the MDF or BB ply if that's the substrate. If the former, do you edge band then? I imagine this is less of problem with overlay drawer fronts--what about inset drawers?
-Rob

[Mark Hollingsworth]

If you elongate the holes in the "actual" drawer front, that will allow for expansion/contraction of the wood with changes in relative humidity. To keep the false fronts oriented to the same point, don't elongate the center hole.
Mark
Mark do you think there would be a problem with splitting doing it your way? Thanks, Mark H

[Jim Becker]

Jim, I am also thinking about vertical orientation of drawers--what do you get then for the edges? Presumably the MDF or BB ply if that's the substrate. If the former, do you edge band then? I imagine this is less of problem with overlay drawer fronts--what about inset drawers?
-Rob

Rob, Actually you have it reversed...for inset drawers, the top and bottom edges never get seen. For overlay drawers, unless it's a very modern design (which wouldn't be atypical for this kind of grain orientation) there is more chance for the edges to show.

I would use solid stock of the same species or a straight-grained species of similar color for the substrate. This was often the case with veneered furniture over the years...even with table tops and exposed edges. Those edges are dyed/stained to match and "disappear" since they have no real grain feature and are more of a shadow line, rather than a "feature".
------

Mark, I can understand your tooling dilemma. Perhaps another 'Creeker in your area could help out with resawing and sanding the veneer.

[Mark Pruitt]

The scenario I was suggesting involves drilling a "normal" screw hole in the center of the actual drawer front--what I should have said was, two screws. I'm not at a computer where I have any decent method for illustrating what I'm suggesting, but I'm attaching a very crude drawing of what I'm talking about. The center screws hold the false front in a fixed orientation with reference to the center, while the screws driven through the elongated holes into "normal" holes drilled into the false front allow the wood to expand and contract rather than split. The drawing should not be taken as proportinate; i.e., the elongated holes need not be as much longer than the center holes as the drawing implies. (And the "center" holes are not even centered in my drawing, which shows how crude Microsoft "Paint" can be! LOL) I drew them as big as I did just to illustrate what I'm saying. I hope this makes sense. This is just an application of a standard practice for joinery in cross-grain situations.

Mark

[Mark Hollingsworth]

Mark That's what I had pictured in my mind that you meant. I think this is my most likely solution if I go with the vertical grain idea. Jim's veneer idea is a good one but I don't have the tooling at this point to accomplish it. Thanks, Mark H